I posted this last year in the History Forum and it was well received by the replies. So, gonna put it out here with "Old Hippies" this year - since it is my personal history and many of you I'm sure have a similar history. Memorial Day Weekend I hear that as we age our brains shrink and we get more combative and contrary and that men get it worse than women. So, call me a grumpy old man but I do get annoyed sometimes at the way things are. Even on my holiday - my three days of leisure called Memorial Day Weekend. I get annoyed that people say "Happy Memorial Day." I get annoyed that there are a whole bunch of thugs that have chosen this holiday to declare SoBe "Urban Beach Weekend." We have lost the essence of this occasion, which we set aside to Honor our War Dead since shortly after the Civil War in the re-United States. Be a Pacifist if you will - many of us hate war. I was out there in March 2003 protesting this debacle in Iraq that the powers that were put us in, just as I was saying enough in the late '60s to the Vietnam debacle that we also should never have been involved. But do not dishonor our heroes who went and fought and sometimes died when duty called. In fact, maybe you could even honor them this Memorial Day (May 30th) with a moment of reflection. PFC William Lynn - U.S. Marine Corps I never met my Uncle Bill, he died in the Pacific War in September 1944 a couple of months before my birth. I read his wartime letters to my grandmother and saw the poignancy of a 15-year-old boy who joined in a moment of bravado and in three years grew into his destiny to live and die as a U.S. Marine. I also remember the family, my mother, her sister, my grandmother and all us kids going each Memorial Day to the Jefferson Barracks Cemetery at St. Louis. There were speeches and parades and the row upon row of headstones, one of which supposedly had the body of my Uncle Bill. I remember my grandmother confessing the reality of that Great War - that it was possible the body in that grave was not her Billy. But, she said she knew it was an American boy and would grieve over these remains just as some other mother would grieve over her Billy. That was the spirit of the Great War, that we honored our personal loss and that of all "Our Boys." Captain Robert Lynn - U.S. Air Force This is my Uncle Bob who was in the Army Air Corps in World War II. He was shot down in a B-17 Bomber over Romania but repatriated before the war ended. He died in a C-47 crash in Hawaii in 1952. I grew up with this hero image, probably why I joined the Air Force three days out of high school.
I have three uncles who were in WWII one stationed in Alaska, one in North Africa, and one took part in the D-Day invasion. They are all still alive at 95, 93, an 91 years of age are all in good health and probably the most interesting people I know.
I see ya havent forgotten- (I shouldved checked,> with us older hippies, the reason we even acknowledge this day , should be a little closer to home) Thanks for putting this up ,friend j.jack NOdak- Thats just amazing , 3 all still going into their 90,s- wow. WW2 vets arent going to be around for too many more years- -I hope history never forgets the sacrifices of that era- at Home and in the many pacific and European theaters- Tom Brokaw wrote a great book "The Greatest Generation that documents that time in this this country- - truly an amazing generation
ok, i'm going to turn myself into a first class asshole here. first let me state my apolgizes to everyone here. i sorry shale and, i'm sorry everyone else too. FUCK MEMORIAL DAY! FUCK THOSE WHO "DID THEIR DUTY!" there i said it. now i made an asshole out of myself. before you all start to rip me a new asshole, i ask, that, you all please hear me out first. what i just said, i said out out grief and pain. i was born and raised in a family, with one long military history, all the way back to the american civil war. i was raised in my family by the military model. i never fit that model. my parents cut me down, to make me fit that model. i never did fit. those people almost killed me by what they did to me. i heard all the shit out of my parents about, how much they "suffered" during ww2 and, how their generation was so "great" and, how i, and, my generation spoiled rotten, unamerican, low life hippie shit and, how, they should have let hitler, take care of my type when they had the chance. stick and stones do break bones but, words do break hearts. if i had been treated with kindness, dignity, honor and, cherished becoming a human being instead, of being blamed, persecuted, scapegoated and, victimized... no doubt at all; i would be able to truely give honor from my heart to those 'who served.' i'm sorry i can't do that. the damage my parents did to me is just too severe. i have struggled so very, very, very, long and hard to find a way to live. i have found that way. i was raised to be an underdog; my career path has been, to work helping other underdogs to pull themselves up like, i have done. thank you for hearing me out. now those of you whom want to rip me a new one... have fun.
So, in a way you are a casualty of WWII. I guess we can remember you as we would those psych cases that become casualties of war, even tho they have not been officially killed. We had 'em in WWII, we have them living on the streets here in Miami from 'Nam. We'll see 'em here from Iraq eventually, if not already. Memorial Day is a time we should remember not just the neat and tidy Dead War Heroes, but those who are not so tidy - the ones that were bent and still wander among us. My grandmother, who lost her young son of 19 in the Pacific War was a drunk for most of my childhood. She eventually found Jesus (not to my liking) but better than being passed out drunk on the kitchen table when we came to visit. I know that was for many reasons, but having her Billy killed at a young age, then losing he oldest son in a military air crash probably added to it. However, I hope you get over the damage that your dysfunctional family caused you. In a way, perhaps not as severe as you had, we all had that to deal with. I mentioned my hero Uncle Bob, but did not mention that I also joined the USAF right out of high school to avoid the army forcing me into their greens and sending me off to kill ppl who would be trying to kill me. Thankfully, we still had the Soviet Union and I spent my time spying on their radio comm. But, except for outward appearance in uniform, I did not fit the military standards for long and if Uncle Bob had not been killed before I dropped out in '70, no telling what kinda flak I woulda got from him. Yes, it is distressing that you had to do such a diatribe against a whole memorial day because of your fucked up family, but I can understand your attitude. Sorta like spitting on the soldiers returning from 'Nam. It was done, but it was not right, especially since ppl were forced into that war by the draft. Not everyone opted to become expatriate in Canada or Europe for life.
I hate war - I abhor it. There are very few excuses for getting into one - the most common being "they disagree with the way we are doing things and they MIGHT try to do something bad to us. So we drop bombs and missles from out of the sky onto good and bad alike. Saying all that - The soldiers, at least most of them, I feel a great deal of respect and admiration for. They put it all on the line because they felt they were protecting their family and their way of life. They were and are honorable men who felt compelled to serve at the risk of losing everything, EVERYTHING!!! God bless each of them. But for those who send us into those dirty little senseless wars - ie: Vietnam and Iraq. May God someday punish you in a way worse that the punishment you caused civilians and our own soldiers - God has already damned you - now it is only to wait.
My father and an 3 uncles served in WWII, another uncle served in Korea and Vietnam, and a brother did his 20 years, peacetime, in the army and the naval reserve. I protested the war in Vietnam but I never blamed the soldiers. The uncle who served there told me he never understood what we were doing there. He hasn't spoken to one of my cousins, his nephew, in 40 years because that cousin once said anyone who serves in Vietnam is a murderer. My cousin has long since recanted what he said, but it doesn't matter. It's a shame how Vietnam still divides people. To blackcat666's family I would tell them your children are not clones of yourself and not everyone is cut out to be a soldier, I sure as hell wasn't. If they can't accept you the way you are that's just as much their loss as it is yours. I'm not attending any parades or visiting any graveyards today, I'll just say a silent prayer of thanks for our veterans' sacrifices, even if they served, or are currently serving, in a conflict I don't believe in. They've fought and died for my freedom, including the freedom to protest their wars and the freedom to leave this country if I don't like it. BTW, I'm not going anywhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doZnJSojBtw&feature=related"]YouTube- MARINES 2 girls 1 cup reactions!! ....
A mute reminder of the poppy fields and graves And when the fight was over We spent what they had made But in the bottom of our hearts We felt the final cut..
A lovely post, Shale. I lost my brother in Vietnam. His death tore me and the rest of our family to pieces. When that happens, you somehow find a way to go on with life, but you never get over it. Never. Mothers and fathers should not be burying their adored sons. Sisters should not be burying their revered big brothers. I often think of the countless families across the nation who have lost brothers and sons and fathers and uncles to the travesty of Vietnam and Iraq, and my heart goes out to them. I know how the hurt never completely goes away. My tears on this day won't change anything. But it is a measure of our humanity that we pause and keep their memory alive for as long as we can. And I will keep voting against the politicians who continue to send our sons into meaningless wars for no discernable reason other than some kind of misplaced bravado.
I'm gonna bump this thread just to see if any others here want to add some Memorial Day tributes or whatever. Also, scanned another pic of my Uncle Bob, pointing to map, probably where he was shot down
My dad died last month, served in WWII Europe in the Army Air Corps, didn't see combat but most American servicemen didn't. Another WWII vet gone, they're getting rare. In 1970 I was still in high school and the Vietnam War was still raging. There was a huge anti-war demonstration being held on Boston Common, but it was on a Friday afternoon. If I had waited until after school it would have been pretty much over by the time I got there, so I decided to skip my last two classes that day and catch a bus into Boston. The crowd was estimated at around 75,000, it was quite a mind boggling experience for a 16 year old kid. Of course the following Monday I had to face the consequences, bringing home a detention slip for my parents to sign. My father never talked about Vietnam much and I didn't know what his reaction would be; nonetheless I told him the truth about why I skipped those classes. He just looked me in the eye and said, "Well why didn't you tell me you wanted to go to the rally? I would have written you a note!" I damn sure didn't expect that!
Shale- I love that you found this post and posted it up again this year! Your family history is a tribute to just about every vet ,from every conflict this country has had to (or not had to) be involved in. So again- much love and respect > to all my fellow vets on this board & to all those that I marched with thru the swamps and those I marched with thru the streets of DC. GIVEPEACEaCHANCE, Jjack:grouphug: National Call Center for Homeless Veterans call 1-877-4AID VET (877)-424-3838
It could be, like with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, that some Vets know that war should not be waged for frivolous reasons and should be avoided if possible. You father may have quietly known that. IDK how I would have been accepted by either of my uncles later in life. Guess when I went into the Air Force all spit & polish at 19 they would have been proud, but guess what? - Six years later I was doing all the counter culture things that went against that generations traditions. I really don't know - depends on my Uncle Bob's and Uncle Bill's growth in those same years as to whether they would disown me or not. Uh, I didn't mention my Great Grandpa Doc Robertson who was a surgeon with the CSA in the Civil War. He survived that war and was a die-hard rebel 'til he actually died in the 1930s. I was told that if Dixie was played you would stand or he would hit you with his cane.
Thanks, Shale, both for the OP and for the bump. My father and both my wife's parents are veterans of WWII. My mother was a civilian, but lived under nightly bombings, and in that sense was a veteran, too. They all survived the war, but all left parts of themselves, body or mind, back there. Memorial Day should not be a party weekend, but a time to remember what good people were told to do on our behalf, and what it cost them to do it.
He did. It took a long time for me to figure out that he was against the Vietnam War, he talked about it so little, but he was someone who could see both sides of an issue. I even remember him saying that, while the WWII Axis powers represented evil governments, the Allies "weren't completely right."
I guess I had my fun on Sat & Sun in SoBe and the beach. http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=428550&f=473 Today I did some Web searches and found out my Uncle Bill's exact burial plot in Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery in St. Louis MO. Just in the event that anyone should ever take a personal interest in visiting. Bill went into the Marines at 15 and died in the Pacific War at 19, so he does not have any progeny. I also sent in a request for my namesake Uncle Robert's military records. It was a PDF form that I filled out and don't know if I qualify to get them as a nephew or even if they exist. The address was at Military Personnel Records, 9700 Page Ave., St. Louis, MO and there was a bad fire there years ago that destroyed a lot of old records - so that is a crap shoot. But that is how I spent this Memorial Day
Good thread, Shale. I marched in the Moratorium March through downtown San Francisco 'round about 1972 or so, and I was in the Navy stationed at Treasure Island at the time. With 40 years of hindsight and perspective, I do think Lyndon Johnson thought he was doing the right thing by escalating that war, even as it's more crystal clear than ever how idiotic it was. Yesterday, I watched bunches of people gather in a small-town cemetary in southern Utah to drink beer and laugh about ... god knows what. I think you have a point that people are missing the essence of Memorial Day. Surely it's not to drink beer and act stupid over the graves of your fallen brothers and fathers and uncles, but that's what people do, I guess.
