If you do not believe in God, you must not have read the Bible

Okay, so?

So you say.

Perhaps but does call into question the Trinity.

The father is pleased with his Son.

So you say.

Actually no, the idea of a "Triune God" is that all three parts of that "Triune God", the Father, Son, and holy spirit are co-equal, co-eternal, and co-essential and that would prevent any of the three to be subject to another part.

What it does imply is that the Son is not equal to his Father and is subject to the Father.

They are seen as visibly separate because they are visibly separate and it not an apparent "separateness", it is an actual separateness.

Interestingly for thousands of years the Israelites called on the Father and "God the Son" made no apparent appearance and that would mean that God kept his people in ignorance of his "true nature" all those years, something that is not in God's nature.

Where one is, there you will find the other? Then why does Jesus say at John 14:12 "I am going my way to the Father", why would Jesus have to go to the Father if they are always together?

Well, when you say; "The Father, Son, and Spirit are distinct" and ""separate" one from the other", you are correct. They just don't come together and make a Trinity.

 

What is "co-equal"? I've never heard such a term. If you don't believe that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all members of the Godhead, and therefore both divine and eternal, I'm afraid we simply won't agree.

I am equal to my father, through the human life and nature I received through him, though I may be subject to my father, due to our relationship as father and son. There is no conflict.

So, what you see with your physical eyes is all that exists, and is real in the universe? This is your premise. God manifests Himself in various ways, one manifestation not having to relate directly to another, except in purpose. That's why I don't trust "pictures of Jesus". None truly represent Him, as the image of the invisible God, yet the One of whom Paul states that we can "see His face" (2Corinthians 4), as God illumines the knowledge of the glory of God in our hearts.

The Son made many appearings, though you would not have noticed. God the Son manifests throughout the bible, but people don't understand, because they don't realize that God's appearing in humanity always represents the Son. Angels are spirits, not having the human nature.

There are some things, some events happening here and now, in which space and time are involved, where in reality, these things were accomplished in eternity past, before the foundation of the earth. The crucifixion of Christ is considered by God to have been accomplished before creation. ",,I saw a lamb slain from before the foundation of the earth,,".

Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus. This is what He said in John 14. The matter of "going" and "coming" is not to be considered in a merely superficial way. This has to do with Christ, in His humanity, going through death, being raised in resurrection, ascending to the Father in the heavenlies, and becoming a life-giving Spirit to get inside of us and be our life. This is to add the element of Christ' humanity to the Spirit. Before Christ' first coming, the Spirit was only called "The Spirit of God". After Christ ascension, the Spirit had the added elements of Christ' human living, Christ' death, Christ' resurrection, Christ' ascension and transcendent status as "over all". Now, the Spirit is properly called "The Spirit of the resurrected Jesus Christ". It includes all the elements of Christ, in what He has obtained and attained.

God is Triune. He is one God, yet having three "persons", for the sake of His dispensation, that He might get inside of us and be our life, that Christ might gain a Body for Himself, a counterpart that matches Him. This counterpart, the church, is carried out today in miniature in local churches, eventually becoming the expanded city, the New Jerusalem, the ultimate conclusion of God's work and His heart's desire.

In coming to be incarnated as a man, Christ added the element of humanity to the Godhead. Before He became a man, the Spirit could only be "the Spirit of God". Now, just as the myrrh was added to the holy anointing oil in the Old Testament, Christ' death is added to the Spirit. Just as the Calamus and the Cinnamon were added, even so, the elements of resurrection and ascension are added now to the Spirit. Paul states, in ICorinthians 15:45, that Christ ("the last Adam") became a life-giving Spirit. This is why we can now say that "Christ lives in me", as did Paul.

If Jesus the man had not gone to the Father, though He were the Son, His humanity would not have been glorified. When He returned, in the closed room in John 20, after His resurrection, His was a glorified body.

God manifested is the Son. God as the creator is the Father. God working in us is the Spirit. These are all the same God, however, merely various functions of the same God.

Actually, I meant to say that they are not "separate", but are distinct.

I think the problem is that all too often, Christians try to visualize concepts only within the limited framework of their own life's experiences up until that point.

I don't care about the label "Trinity", or even "Triune God", though that is my preferred way of expressing a God who is simultaneously both one God, and three "persons", though these three are one.

God is one, but for the sake of His dispensing Himself into us as life, seen in the tree of life, He needs to be the Father, who created,,the Son, who manifests the Father, and the Spirit, who conveys the reality of the Father in the Son to us, to infuse us with Himself, not only being life to us, but transforming us into His glorious image. ("glorious" means "God-expressing")

 

Perhaps you should look up what Trinitarians believe so you'll what your defending.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
Perhaps you would be so good as to show me in the Bible where it says I should believe in a "Godhead" or a "Trinity" or where those terms are even mentioned?

Accept for the fact that you are aren't claiming that you and your father are part of some kind of Godhead and are the same person as well as individuals.

No, not at all there are many thing unseen and I never said there weren't.

But if as you've said Jesus is God, then was God lying when he said at Exodus 33:20 “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.”

Again perhaps you can show be where the Bible uses the term "God the Son", I can see where Jesus often called himself "God's Son" but never "God the Son"

I don't believe you have thought out your beliefs fully. If you had, you would realize that by assuming that "before the foundation of the earth" means before the existence of the physical Earth, you are saying that God knew Adam and Eve would sin and thus is responsible for their sin.

A lot of rationalization for one simple statement by Jesus that he is going his way to his Father.

So you say but where is the proof?

Maybe your "Godhead" was imperfect and needed humanity to be added to it but Jehovah is in no such need.

What is the need for Jesus' humanity to be glorified?

God is manifested through his Son but not as the Son.

Okay but the truth is that they are both separate and distinct.

I think the problem is that all too often, Christians try to visualize concepts without bothering to check to see if they agree with God's word the Bible.

It doesn't matter what label you use or even if you don't use one, the concept of "a God who is simultaneously both one God, and three "persons", though these three are one", is a pagan concept that is not supported by the Bible.

You lost me on this one, I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

That reminds me of a scene from "A Few Good Men", where Tom Cruise's character, a defense lawyer, is trying to get the admin from Guantanamo to admit that they ordered a "Code Red" on one of their soldiers. Since "Code Red" isn't in the manual, but is a common practice amongst the men, to punish those who commit an infraction, the prosecution asks one of the witnesses to find "Code Red" in the manual. He seems frustrated, since it isn't listed in the manual, so seemingly the prosecution has made it's point.

However, Cruise then cross-examines, by handing him the same manual, and asks him if he can find where the mess hall is located in the manual. The witness can't, and Cruise says "Oh, so you've never had a meal at Guantanamo?".

The point is made, being that there are some facts that are not spelled out in the manual.

The bible also has intrinsic truths that are not "spelled out". Jesus states that many things are not "spelled out" so that those whose hearts are not right would not know them.

The bible is for those who seek the truth, not merely those who are satisfied with traditional religious teachings.

That was then, this is now. Jesus states plainly that if you've seen Him, you've seen the Father, in the beginning verses of John 14.

You need to realize that there was a transition. You have too much affection for the Old Testament, perhaps wishing it were still in effect. If we could not see His face, then Paul's word in 2Cor.4 is meaningless.

That would have been awkward. It's not necessary. Christ' divinity is not in question for me. Peter saw it. "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God",,

Paul saw it "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily". Colossians 2:9

A genuine son has the same life and nature of his father. This is just undisputed fact.

How so? God's prescience doesn't make Him a puppet master. His foreknowledge provided for man's sin before the creation, as the cross is eternally efficacious, from eternity past to eternity future.

"Jehovah" has gone through some processes. In the Old Testament, He could only "come upon" someone, in order to speak something. He even did so through an ass. In the New Testament, He now indwells His believers.

God was incarnated in Jesus. This Jesus went through the process of human living, death, resurrection, ascension and enthronement. Why? Just to pay for our sins? That's like taking a sheet of paper with some writing on it and erasing the writing, but having no intention but to have a blank sheet of paper. God's intention is much more than merely to make us, His redeemed, "blank sheets of paper". He intends to write Christ into us. He did much more than just "wipe the slate clean".

In order to impart Christ into us, firstly He had to become a man, putting on humanity, living the life of a genuine yet sinless man. As the man Jesus, the spotless Lamb of God, He died on the cross, shedding His blood for our redemption. After spending some time in Hades, He was raised up by the power of God, in resurrection. He appeared to many, and then ascended to the Father, offering up Himself as a sweet-smelling savor to God. He was, and is, the real "burnt offering". None but Christ is absolute for God.

But there is a part of Christ that is divine, without beginning or ending. That is why it was prophesied of Him that "Not a bone of him shall be broken." In typology, the bone represents the life, and contrary to the typical practice of the Roman soldiers, His bones were not broken in order to hasten the death. When the soldier arrived, He had already shed His mortal coil. That is why the soldier pierced His side, just to make sure, ",,and out came blood and water." The blood represents redemption, and the water represents life. He died to redeem us and impart life to us.

So, though as a man, He "died", the divine part was never broken, never ended. He merely "passed through" death.

In His incarnation, He put on humanity. In His resurrection, His humanity was brought into glory. There's a man on the throne now.

In Genesis 1, He was "Elohim", then after He began to have dealings with man, He was "Jehovah". In the Old Testament, His Spirit was merely the "Spirit of God". In the New Testament, that Spirit is now "The Holy Spirit". In Romans 8, that same Spirit is called "The Spirit of God", "The Spirit of life", "The Spirit", "The Spirit of Christ", "Christ", and "the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead". In Phillipians, Paul mentions the "bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ".

You're saying that God's Spirit is many, and not one?

God's intention is not to bring a bunch of people into heaven. God's intention has always been to make man as a glove, for Him, as the hand, to fill. In the process of carrying out His intention, He needed to go through incarnation, human living, resurrection, ascension, and enthronement. This added all the elements of Christ' excellent humanity, His death, His resurrection, His ascension and His enthronement to the Spirit, making it the promised Spirit. This compound Spirit was seen in type in the Holy Anointing Oil in Exodus 30:25.

23 Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred [shekels], and of sweet cinnamon half so much, [even] two hundred and fifty [shekels], and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty [shekels], 24 And of cassia five hundred [shekels], after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin: 25 And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil.

The ingredients of the ointment are significant. Their significance is both in the nature of the ingredients, and their context found in various verses throughout the bible. Myrrh, for instance, is representative of Christ' death. One of the ingredients is a plant that shoots straight up out of a muddy situation. Another is a snake repellent. They all have significance.

The entire Old Testament is full of significances, which are called types, shadows, prefigures, metaphor, allegory, symbolic representations of things to come. It's all significant.

Something was added to the oil.

Something was also added to God. There was God before incarnation, there was God after incarnation. Why? Because "the Spirit was not yet". Read John 7:

37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.

I disagree. Jesus came "with" the Father, not merely "from" the Father. He brought the Father with Him, saying "I am in My Father". John 14

Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; but if not, believe because of the works themselves. 12 Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes into Me, the works which I do he shall do also; and greater than these he shall do because I am going to the Father.

Again, I disagree. This is why the Muslims accuse Christians of being tri-theistic, and justifiably so.

Or, they receive teachings from others, traditional teachings, without reading the bible and understanding it themselves. "Going to heaven when we die",,etc.

God's purpose is not to send people to heaven, after a life of "good works". It is to redeem and infuse men with Himself, making them genuine sons, in the image of the firstborn Son of God, creating a Body for Christ, eventually expanding into the New Jerusalem, God's ultimate and full expression in the universe, for eternity.

Then perhaps you haven't read the book of John thoroughly. Specifically, chapter 14.

Was Paul wrong, in saying So also it is written, ``The first man, Adam, became a living soul''; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit

The "last Adam" is Christ. Why? Adam was the progenitor of the old creation, the human race, specifically. All of us were born in Adam. Christ is the seed of the new creation, "created in Christ Jesus". Christ today is available, as "the Spirit of Jesus Christ" Phillipians 1:19. We can be born anew, in Christ, and be part of a new creation.

Without the "second birth", we are stuck in Adam.

Colossians 2:9 "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,"

See the word "Godhead"? ^

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

The "us" is not several "Gods", but one God, in three stages.

 

So then, perhaps it's time for you to stop being satisfied with your traditional religious teachings and begin searching the Bible for the truth.

That was then, this is now? Could it be that there is a simple answer that doesn't include invalidating parts of the Bible? That perhaps instead of Jesus saying he was the father, that he was the spitting image of his Father, that he was so much like his father that observing him was like seeing his Father. There you go a simple straight forward answer and at no time were any other Scriptures invalidated.

The entire Bible is still in effect, not just the parts you'd like to be in effect.

You didn't give a verse to look at so it's hard to know, what in the world you are talking about.

Yep, just as I said; "the Son of the living God", not God the Son.

Yep, Paul saw it. He saw that divine quality in Jesus, after all Jesus was God's Son.

Yep, they're just not one in the same.

Because that would mean that God knew before he even created Adam and Eve, that they would sin and would bring pain, suffering and death into the world and Adam and Eve would have no choice in the matter because if God has foreknowledge of a matter thus it has to come true. Thus when God created Adam and Eve, he knew he would be bringing pain, suffering and death into the world. Perhaps you worship such a God but the God I worship did not bring pain, suffering and death into the world.

“For I am Jehovah; I have not changed" (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17)

If this was so that means that your God was dead for three days and Jehovah the God I worship can not die.

Yes.

I don't see where in this "illustration" there is any correlation to reality.

What?

The rest of this is meaningless rhetoric that will for the time being go unanswered but in the multitude of words there is sin.

Hidden in the middle of all your rhetoric is this gem;

So it seems that despite you eariler saying God is not a puppet master, you are now saying the God wants to turn us into hand puppets.

There is only one entity in the universe that wants us to be hand puppets and that is not God. One of the greatest gifts Jehovah gave us is free will and He is not going to take that away from us for any reason, let alone to turn us into hand puppets.




PS As for this:

It is the very "trinity" that you defend that makes the "Muslims accuse Christians of being tritheistic", not the fact that Christians worship only the one true God, Jehovah. That's one as in one, not as in three Gods rolled into one, separate and distinct but yet one.

 

Perhaps you should talk to Jesus about that, since He "invalidated" parts of the bible, when He said, "You have heard that it hath been said,,,,,,,but I say unto you,,,,,"

Use this: http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm

and input "but I say unto you" in the search window.

The "it hath been said" portion were scriptures from the Old Testament.

The age has changed.

The Judaizers always want to emphasize keeping the Old Testament laws. Most of the New Testament makes this motive clearly a diversion from God's plan, in His New Testament economy.

If you truly believe that, then you would receive the words of Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles, as relates to the illegitimacy of law-keeping as a means of performing righteousness.

Tell me, do you still offer bulls and goats at the temple? Or just a few turtledoves? Where's your ephod?

2Corinthians 4 only has 18 verses. You're telling me that's too many for you to read? I prefer to give you the whole chapter, as an assignment. You might learn something. You did say that you believe in "the whole bible", did you not? 18 verses shouldn't tax your capacity too much, should it?

You didn't see the accompanying text? What are the "us" in Genesis 1:26? God and the angels? What about the "Godhead" in Colossians 2:9?

How do you like the following passage, from Hebrews 1?

Hebr 1:1 God, having spoken of old in many portions and in many ways to the fathers in the prophets, 2 Has at the last of these days spoken to us in the Son, whom He appointed Heir of all things, through whom also He made the universe; 3 Who, being the effulgence of His glory and the impress of His substance and upholding and bearing all things by the word of His power, having made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Having become as much better than the angels as to have inherited a more distinguished name than they. 5 For to which of the angels has He ever said, ``You are My Son; this day have I begotten You''? And again, ``I will be a Father to Him, and He will be a Son to Me''? 6 And when He brings again the Firstborn into the inhabited earth, He says, ``And let all the angels of God worship Him.'' 7 And of the angels He says, ``Who makes His angels winds and His ministers a flame of fire''; 8 But of the Son, ``Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

Hehehe,,,"divine quality",,,slick move there, waterboy. You diminish Christ' divinity by your slickness.

Hebrews 1:

8 But of the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom

Divine is divine.

Divine is divine. The divine life, the divine nature. That makes Jesus divine. To assert anything else nullifies your "Christian" experience. Your Jesus has no power, and no eternal life.

The God who actually exists allows pain and suffering, not only as a consequence of wrong behavior, but also as a means of working Himself into us. He lets his lacky satan do the dirty work. But He only lets him do so much. If you're not happy with that, I'm sorry, but the fact is the fact. Are you saying that God is powerless to get rid of satan?

I see that you quote James, who tried to get Paul to perform a vow, according to the Old Testament law. No surprise. James had one foot in the Old Testament. Paul was bold, having been zealous for the law before his conversion.

Take this passage from Galatians 2:

2:1 Then after a period of fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus with me also. 2 And I went up according to revelation, and I laid before them the gospel which I proclaim among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of repute, lest perhaps I should be running, or had run, in vain. 3 But not even Titus, who was with me, though he is a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised; 4 And this, because of the false brothers, brought in secretly, who stole in to spy out our freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into slavery. 5 To them we yielded with the subjection demanded not even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might remain with you. 6 But from those who were reputed to be something--whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not accept man's person; for to me those who were of repute added nothing. 7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the gospel to the circumcision, 8 (For He who operated in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcision operated also in me for the Gentiles), 9 And perceiving the grace given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and to Barnabas the right hand of fellowship that we should go to the Gentiles, and they, to the circumcision. 10 Only they requested that we remember the poor, which very thing I was also eager to do. 11 But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face because he stood condemned. 12 For before some came from James, he continually ate with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to shrink back and separate himself, fearing those of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also joined him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was carried away in their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not walking in a straightforward way in relation to the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like the Jews? 15 We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 And knowing that a man is not justified out of works of law, but through faith in Jesus Christ, we also have believed into Christ Jesus that we might be justified out of faith in Christ and not out of the works of law, because out of the works of law no flesh will be justified.

I guess his view of the Old Testament wasn't quite as fresh as yours?

Is your "Jehovah" afraid of death? Powerless against it? Mine isn't.

Jesus passed through death. His mortal body went to the grave. He wasn't "dead", but "just visiting". While there, it is written that He preached to the "spirits in prison". Death couldn't hold Him, so He walked out.

Jesus had two natures, the human, and the divine. Though in His humanity, He could be killed, the unbroken life of God was never "killed". This life has the power of resurrection. He stated "I am the resurrection, and the life,,," (John 11:25). He defeated death.

From Revelation 1:

17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead; and He placed His right hand on me, saying, Do not fear; I am the First and the Last 18 And the living One; and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever; and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

I guess that makes you the "blank sheet of paper".

Paul states, in his epistles, that the apostles use the Spirit to write living letters of Christ into the believers. In Hebrews, the Spirit is writing on us and in us as well. Maybe you need some of this writing.

You've not heard the news? Jesus is sitting in the heavenlies, enthroned, waiting until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet.

Yeah, I suppose that the bible is full of sin, with all it's "words". You should probably not read it, lest you "sin".

"God's intention has always been to make man as a glove, for Him, as the hand, to fill."

God wants to fill us, numbskull. We are vessels, for God to fill. Unless we are filled with God, we fail our original purpose in God's creation.

No, God wants you to be free to "be yourself". Me, He wants to fill, so that I can be in the image of the Son.

You take "free will".

I'll take Jesus living in me. That's what my "free will" chooses to do.

The "Trinity" is not three gods. The three of the Godhead are one God.

Sorry if that concept challenges your logic. If it does, I feel sorry for your logic. It sounds very much like a prison, with bars as rigid as the law you hold so dearly.

 

God bless the scroll wheel..

 

I was raised southern baptist for 50 years. One day about two years ago I looked at my dad and my brother and my nephew all sitting in a row on Thanksgiving Day. My dad just had to open his big fat stupid mouth and say that women do not need an education. All three men think they are so godley, all three are leaders in their churches and the nephew just gradulated from seminary. I went home and pulled out the bible. I looked up every single reference to women in the bible. Then I went to the writings of Hinudism, Buddhism, Islam, and everywhere I looked I saw that women are second class human beings according to the original texts.

That's when I realized for the first time that all religions are MAN MADE to serve mans interest. Why any woman would ever believe in any abrahamic religion is beyond my comprehension. I see nothing but hate, condemnation, superiority and this constant underlieing fear of death. I see a complete and utter lack of humanity in christians that sickens my stomach. I see a brainwashed mass of people who are all scared shitless of death so they'd rather waste this life on condeming others for for for WHAT? And I'll tell ya another thing... that bs about David "being a man of my own heart" really does me in. David, a murdering adulterer piece of scum is the man god finds worthy???? If this so called god is omnipotent, then why doesn't he know David is no man to claim as an example. Something BIG is off with this god.

I've read the bible cover to cover at least five times and for at least 45 years. It dumbfounds me that christians would never ever hold their faith up to the light and admit that this is nothing but a hate cult. IF christianity were strictly the teachings of Jesus, I wouldn't have issue. But there's very little Jesus in the mouths and lives and works of christians on this earth. If there IS a hell, christians filled it with their hypocracy and hate and oppression.

 

Sing it, Sister!

 

have you hugged a Christian today?..

 

You sound rather intolerant yourself, actually. The bible portrays men who, in spite of their imperfections, (even Jesus contradicted these "men of God"), were men who saw something of God's purpose, and God's heart.

Just because a man sees something, does he also have to be a perfect man? Isn't that impossible? Which of any of us are perfect? Don't most of us have to learn the hard way not to go running around? I mean, David saw a naked woman, and his heart went after her. He had her husband put in the front lines of a battle, and as good as murdered him. He was, however, punished, when the child born of his adulterous relationship died. It's plain that David was no great example, calling for "bones broken" and such, when he "prayed to God". Jesus didn't go along with such nonsense, and taught us to love our enemies, pray for those who abuse us, etc.

Doesn't it speak to the fact that apart from Jesus, there isn't a perfect man? Why shouldn't we believe in Him? Just because everyone else is full of it?

"Christians",,I know what you're saying. I dislike Christians, for the most part. Most of the ones I've known are not as fun to be around as "sinners". I think Jesus felt the same way, as it is said of Him that He was the "friend of publicans and sinners". He only went to the religious to give them "a piece of His mind". I feel like He would do the same today.

Just remember, the word "Christian" came from some who opposed the early believers. It is a derivation of the Greek word "Kristianos", a despising word, meant to show contempt for the early believers, in an ugly tone.

It's not important what you call someone, or what they call themselves. What's important is what they are.

But remember, just because there are imperfect men in the bible, (Abraham tried to sell his wife off as his sister, just to avoid being killed, when traveling through hostile territory. He also didn't fully obey God. God had to arrange specific circumstances to force Abraham to fully obey His call. Solomon, another supposed "man of God", and author of yet another portion of the bible, had hundreds of wives and mistresses on the side. It is written that his heart was adversely affected by his womanizing. Lots more examples)

Why should God present to us a book full of falsehood? Why not tell the true story of these men, without pretense? It's all there to see. But you choose to complain, instead of being thankful that we know these things. Why not give God credit for telling the truth? Would you rather than He portray these men as "lilly white"?

I mean, tell me, who are YOUR heroes? Are there really any men out there who would turn down a tasty piece? Probably only if they felt it wouldn't work out well, and have the presence of mind not to follow their dicks. Still, in their hearts, men are men.

Now as to women,,

Why not realize that the strong women in the bible are examples to the men? Or did you not realize that there are indeed strong women in the bible? There are plenty. In fact, almost every time we see someone who is overcoming their circumstances, and being creative, it's a woman.

Now go kick a man, if that's what you need, to get your jollies.

Oh, and I believe in Jesus, and am not "afraid of death". Death doesn't scare me, it's the thought of suffering needlessly, or becoming a financial burden on those around me as I approach death that bothers me the most.

 

God is my fishing buddy.

Don't know if I have Him figured out yet, however. Last time I wanted to go fishing, He said no.

 

I joined a communal "christian" group back in '69, called "The Children of God", otherwise known by the members as "The Revolution for Jesus", or "The Team". It was a cult, or maybe BECAME one, though I didn't understand that until just before I left, in '72. They were known for being "huggy lovers", by other christians. It was common for the members to hug each other and "pray" for each other while hugging. I remember distinctly feeling as if some of those "prayers" were more like "lessons". You got that feeling after a minute or two of "Oh Father God bless Ben-Hadad, and teach him to be humble, and not walk in his pride. Help him not to be offended at my prayer, even though his flesh is probably reacting at my words. Help him to know that he needs to show more love to the brethren, and,,,,"

People got to know that while you were imprisoned in their arms, you HAD to listen to their prayers, however misguided. This one guy I remember used to rub my back and kind of really get into it a lot while "praying", and had this "feel" to him like he was molesting me, using "prayer" as an excuse. Seriously, it was just smarmy, and I avoided him whenever I could. But he was molesting everyone else as well, so I didn't take it personally. He was just not even subtle about it. I didn't know about "gay" at that time, and especially in the context of a "christian group".

I've had my fair share of hugs.

 

@OP:If you are a Christian and do not know what it means to be of Christ then you are not a Christian and therfore that statistic is meaningless DUCK.

Duck I like you, and I wish you would study the NWO. I know you might of brushed on it, but really open your eyes my friend.

 

Jesus at Matthew 7:21-23 indicates that there will be two different groups that will call him Lord, one group he accepts as his followers and to the other group he says; I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

Which group do you think is making Christians look bad?

 

A church divided is no church at all.

 

Yes, it makes two churches

 

Correct and true Christians are not divided but Jesus did point out that there would also be people that would call themselves "Christian" that were not and would mislead many.

 

If someone says that they are you, trying to steal your identity, does that mean that there are two of you or does mean that that the other person is lying about being you?