Vegetarian Pets............

Discussion in 'Vegetarian' started by Elle, Dec 10, 2004.

  1. Elle

    Elle Senior Member

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    I had this conversation with my mother the other day.........

    Mom: If you had a child, would you raise it to be a vegetarian?
    Me: Of course
    Mom: Well, aren't your animals just like children to you?
    Me: Yes
    Mom: So why do you not have them on a vegetarian diet?
    Me: Because animals are naturally meat eaters.....we as humans have a choice
    Mom: Well, since you are the one buying their food, I would assume that, technically, they have a choice too....since they infact do not have to go out and kill for their dinner.

    So here I became a little stumped. My answcer was that I would not want to force it on my animal babies.....but yes, if I had kids I would raise them as vegetarians to believe that it is morally wrong eat meat since they are capable of understanding the concept. My animals are not, however it is I that buys their food so basically they eat what I want them to eat (although I only feed them what they like best). So now I want everyone's opinon on the subject of wheter or not you think it is hypocritical of me to be feeding my animals meat based food. And do you or would you do it?
    Discuss...............
     
  2. Sage-Phoenix

    Sage-Phoenix Imagine

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    I wouldn't particually want to, but yes I'd feed a carnivore meat. That is their natural diet and they're whole system is geared up for it.
    however.....
    By meat I mean free range, organic, humane and natural as possible. No way would I give them pet food. It's unnatual and nasty stuff (made from meat not fit for human consumption)

    That wouldn't be hypocritical because it's what nature intended. Of course they could survive on a veggie diet but that seems a lot of effort (can't even be bothered to nourish myself properly).

    It's diffrent for people as they have a choice and not really need for meat. I'd raise veggie kids too.

    Of course my companion animals, being rabbits, are natual herbivores. So it's not really an issue. I like rabbits anyway but feel very comforted that they are vegetarian too.
     
  3. loveflower

    loveflower Senior Member

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    i just dont know where people get off saying that animals are not capable of morals.. who are you to say that? do they tell you they dont have morals? just because you cant tell they're there and you dont see them, they dont compare to yours, they don't have any sense of what they're doing?




    by the way, elle, when i said you that was you in general
     
  4. Elle

    Elle Senior Member

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    When I said they are not capable of understanding morals, I meant that I would not be able to explain the concept of meat eating as opposed to a veggie diet and expect them to weigh the issue for themselves and then make an educated decision as to whether or not they wanted to keep eating meat or not. I would be able to do so with my child, when she was of age to understand. No, my dog has absolutley no sense of whether or not she is helping things by not eating meat.......especially since that would be my choice not hers, if it was up to her she would have a steak and eggs every meal.....unless of course she could grasp the concept of animal cruelty and the enviorment , which she cant, which was my point.
     
  5. MikeE

    MikeE Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    My concern would not be whether it is right for you to feed your (presumably carnivourous) pet meat, but whether it is right for you to impose your choices on your pet.

    If your vegetarianism is based on your relationship to animals, what relationship do you have with your pet? Is it one of ownership and control, where the pet does what you want? Or are you a caretaker who gives great weight to her pet's desires and inborn nature.

    Unless you are willing to call wild wolves "immoral" for their diet, I see the meat/no-meat issue as subsidiary to the morality of your attitute towards your pet.

    (Re-reading this, I see that someone might see an implied critisism of you. None is intended.)
     
  6. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    morality is a human construct.
    A cat given a non-meat diet will go kill things in the yard.
    Some dogs do ok on veg diets and the vegan cat people claim their cats are fine on a vegan diet, but I have rescued too many animals in tour lots that were malnourished from this well-meaning but misguided action.
    If your critter likes veg food, by all means allow access, but DO NOT withold meat products.
    I once fostered a cat who loved tofu and rice. White rice. now that's healthy.
     
  7. Elle

    Elle Senior Member

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    Exactly. I completely agree, which is exactly why I would never force my diet on them. :)

    I'm glad everyone seems to have the same point of view as I do.....
    and next time the subject is brought up I will keep all these points in mind.:D
     
  8. ryupower

    ryupower NO capcom included

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    Animals have morals. Just not as high as those of us (eventhough....we actually ARE animals in a way).Their instincts are stronger than those of humans. But for instance: Wolves nurture and babysit other wolve's pups. Or a heard of horses will slow down, if a member is wounded, so that it can keep up. Dolphins circle around wounded members to protect them from danger, or bump them up to the air so they won't drown (if the members are to weak to reach the air themselves), etc.... My cat showed morals the other day too (it was like watching a movie! :eek: ).

    However, they don't speak or language, we are generally (lol) smarter then they are.

    anyways....back to topic: Don't withhold meat from a carnivorous pet, their body is designed to digest meat. They have no other choice.They NEED it to survive. We already need supplements for some vitamins, and we naturally are omnivores, therefor it's not that tragic. But our cats, for instance, are carnivores, imagine what a v*gan diet would do to them??
     
  9. luvndrumn

    luvndrumn Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I really don't think morals plays into what an animal eats. Rather, I think, it's a matter of how the Creator designed the animal. Cats (felines) and dogs (canines), both domestic and wild, have teeth designed for ripping and tearing. Herbivores have teeth designed for cropping, mashing, and grinding. Carnivores have a relatively short gut (intestine). Herbivores have a longer gut. Some herbivores have multiple stomachs and rechew their partially digested food. Thus, it takes a long time to completely digest the food they eat to extract the nutrients. Carnivores, on the other hand, fast tract (pun intended) their food. We humans are, by design, omnivores, capable of eating both animal and vegetable. Our full set of teeth share the characteristics of both the carnivore (ripping and tearing) and the herbivore (cropping, mashing, and grinding). Our gut is shorter than the herbivore but longer than the carnivore. We can obtain our nutrients from different sources. And we can choose to remain omnivorous or switch to being herbivorous. Canines and felines can not.

    And if one does not wish to feed commercially produced dog and/or cat food to their animal friend, please consult a veterinarian for an alternate food source that will provide the animal with the proper nutrient and vitamin diet.


    And, as someone else mentioned, no criticism is intended.
     
  10. ryupower

    ryupower NO capcom included

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    I agree with luvndrumm...:) (luv that name too....for some reason...:p )
     
  11. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    you perceive their natural response that created the pack's greater good as moral. it's survival.
    Morality in regard to diet is as I said, human in origin. The spiritual/philosphical/religious thinkers have equated non-violence with a higher spiritual value.
    My cat, while clever in some ways, does not worry over snarfing that slab of salmon he was given.
    He is designed to eat that way and has no external or internal controls sugesting that he do otherwise.
    morals are a human neuroses. we are opportunivores. We can consciously choose to eat flesh or not based on what WE individually think is right with no ill effect.
     
  12. ImaPeach

    ImaPeach Member

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    And so as their moral guardians, should we not be responsible for choosing an as cruelty-free as possible diet for our pets? That being said, I don't know what i'd do if i had an omnivore pet. But I can't imagine a domestic housecat going out into the wild, tackling and killing a cow to get to its beef and then serving it up with peas and gravy like they sell on the supermarket shelves. In no way is that "natural". I think our pets are a reflection on ourselves also. But why is the wellbeing of a housecat/dog more important than the wellbeing of the cow or chicken that they are eating? they are all "immoral" creatures with the same level of intelligence. Same level of intelligence as most humans too if you ask me :p
     
  13. ODESSAWEST

    ODESSAWEST Member

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    i feed my animals nutro products, all natural, no animal by products, improves skin and coat, and loaded with obsence amount of vitamins they even have an indoor cat formula which is very important if you have a dog give them the best natural choice Ultra if any one has any questions about their products let me know
     
  14. ryupower

    ryupower NO capcom included

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    It's not just the survival of the pack. Wolves, for instance, may accept a 'lone wolf', who is not part of their family. They either attack, or accept them. My cat adopted and protected kittens that aren't even her's from another cat trying to attack them, about two days ago.

    But morality in food is also common by wolves. They'd only attack middle aged and old pray, young pray they let live .They may not have morals as high as our's, because they have stronger instincts then our's, I even mentioned that in my last post, But that doesn't mean they have no morals at all.
     
  15. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    OK. I'm not saying animals aside from people are moral or not, only that the concept is HUMAN created. It is neither moral nor immoral if a cat kills a bird, except in the minds of observing humans.
    A cat is supposed to feed itself. A wolf is supposed to take down a deer, it keeps the circle in balance.
    Now, us having domestic anumals can be either moral or immoral, depending upon a human's particular view. For me, i see it as my responsibility to feed my animal as close to a natural diet as feasable.
    for the carnivorous cat, that means meat. for my OWN ethics, I get organic prepped food or scraps from the local carcineria (butcher). If an individual animal thrives (not survives, but thrives) on a vegetarian diet, fine. If not, give that animal who is at your mercy what it needs.
     
  16. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    moral [Show phonetics]
    adjective
    1 relating to the standards of good or bad behaviour, fairness, honesty, etc. which each person believes in, rather than to laws:
    It's her moral obligation to tell the police what she knows.
    It is not part of a novelist's job to make a moral judgment.
    She was the only politician to condemn the proposed law on moral grounds (= for moral reasons).
    The Democrats are attempting to capture the moral high ground (= are trying to appear more honest and good than the other political parties).
    Compare amoral; immoral.

    2 behaving in ways considered by most people to be correct and honest:
    She's a very moral woman.
    Oh, stop being so moral!
    Is TV responsible for weakening people's moral fibre (= ability to behave well and honestly and work hard)?
    (from Cambridge)

    mor·al (môrl, mr-) KEY

    ADJECTIVE:

    Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
    Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
    Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
    Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
    Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.
    Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.
    NOUN:

    The lesson or principle contained in or taught by a fable, a story, or an event.
    A concisely expressed precept or general truth; a maxim.
    morals Rules or habits of conduct, especially of sexual conduct, with reference to standards of right and wrong: a person of loose morals; a decline in the public morals.
    (from American Heritage)
    both found online.
     
  17. ryupower

    ryupower NO capcom included

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    yeah..I know. It's another word for ethics.
     
  18. cousinit

    cousinit Member

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    xolo dogs are natural plant eaters, but they are quite happy with regular meat filled doggy chow.

    they just look kind a funny, there also known as mexican harless dogs.
     
  19. superNova

    superNova Member

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    sounds like your mom was just trying to get a rise out of you, and you bought right into it ;) it's right up there with "if you were on a desert island and there was only meat to eat would you eat it?" hehe. after all these years i guess i just i don't play those games anymore.
     
  20. MikeE

    MikeE Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    Well, that sounds pretty much it for the question of vegetarians feeding pets.

    What about spaying and neutering? Does that present any special ethical questions for vegetarians?
     

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