Strengthen your faith in the bible Christians.

I see. Allegory. What is the unemployment rate now? The 1% work with allegories. But myself things should stay on a right track of needing more service employment and respectable commercialism.

 

I am retired from commerce. Sharing is my economy.

 

Olderwaterbrother say something. Are you really serious about your moral-religious criticisms of thedope??

 

Hi everyone. It's cool to see this thread still open, which means everyone is being decent to each other. What's the current theme of discussion ?

 

It has essentially devolved into an argument dominated by the dope and OWB.

I avoid it.

 

That is probably why. I am not concentrating on arguing with warterbrother but on removing the barriers we have built against the awareness of love. If you think it has been a devolution, I think you haven't been paying attention.

 

There has been some debate about the decency of the proceeding but no matter how raucous it may become, I will always allow of hope for a positive outcome.

 

Ukr-Cdn ( striving towards holiness ):

Until you don't. : D

To be uncompromising in matters of belief, how could you then be uncompromising in heart?!

To have heart is to have belief. No need to hold it.

Redemption in the hands of priests is dust. The gospel, the evangel, the glut-tradings-- are of life itself, not ex-nihilio, but itself!

thedope knows. The world is not valuable for what it has to give, but for what it gives value.

Monopoly is a bored game!


( Hi Ram! : D )

 

I generally try to avoid it. How about that?

I never said I compromised my heart? I think I have spoken pretty plainly the truth here, and there are those who may listen, and those who may not. It is not my place to jump into what became a quarrel over maternal insults.

What is those priests are given by God? Redemption is not in the hands of priests by the by, (well, literally it in the form of the Blessed Sacrament), but comes from God to all.

 

Please share with us the name of this god you invoke?

In actuality it is the belief in Satan's lie; “YOU positively will not die.", that has caused the pain, suffering and countless deaths we see around us. I don't ask for death, I call for all to turn to the one that can give us live and save us from Satan's lie; “YOU positively will not die."

I have said no such thing. I asked you to tell us which side you are on.

God's, when he says the result of eating of the tree will be death or Satan's, when he says than it will not result in death.

You just don't understand, it is the belief in Satan's lie; “YOU positively will not die.", over God's truth; "you will positively die.” that has caused death in the first place. Believing now that we can not die just brings death to those who can be delivered from death, because they won't be asking for the life they could receive from God.

 

I do not find Jesus' sacrifice "troublesome" at all, it is you that finds it so troublesome that you have to deny it.

Personally, I find that sacrifice to be a loving gift of God and his son Jesus for benefit of all mankind, so not troubling to me at all.

We are to thank both God and God Jesus for his sacrificial death but Jesus is no longer dead but has been resurrected for the benefit of all mankind.
(Romans 4:25) He was delivered up for the sake of our trespasses and was raised up for the sake of declaring us righteous.
(Hebrews 7:25) Consequently he is able also to save completely those who are approaching God through him, because he is always alive to plead for them.
(1 Corinthians 15:17) Further, if Christ has not been raised up, YOUR faith is useless; YOU are yet in YOUR sins.

It is not just a teaching of Jesus but of the whole Bible but you don't even try to understand what it means. For instance, what is Jesus saying here? “Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but YOU have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was binding to do, yet not to disregard the other things." (Matthew 23:23)
(Hosea 6:6) For in loving-kindness I have taken delight, and not in sacrifice; and in the knowledge of God rather than in whole burnt offerings.
or here
(Mark 12:33) and this loving him with one’s whole heart and with one’s whole understanding and with one’s whole strength and this loving one’s neighbor as oneself is worth far more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
or what is being said in these verses
(Proverbs 21:3) To carry on righteousness and judgment is more preferable to Jehovah than sacrifice.
(Isaiah 1:11) “Of what benefit to me is the multitude of YOUR sacrifices?” says Jehovah. “I have had enough of whole burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed animals; and in the blood of young bulls and male lambs and he-goats I have taken no delight.
(1 Samuel 15:22) In turn Samuel said: “Does Jehovah have as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of Jehovah? Look! To obey is better than a sacrifice, to pay attention than the fat of rams;

Jesus was talking to the scribes and Pharisees, not to his disciples and was telling those scribes and Pharisees that their multitude of sacrifices were pointless as long as they continued to ignore the more important things of showing love, mercy, righteousness and obedience.

Yes and Jesus was innocent and without sin.
(John 1:29)See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!
What you fail to see is that the law was a tutor leading to the Christ and that most of the law explained and showed what Jesus was going to do. That is why a unblemished sheep was used in order to represent Jesus sinless state, his perfection.

No, it shows that in God's kingdom, even among what seem to be natural enemies, there will be peace.

Interesting but let's see what the Bible says.
(Romans 5:9) we have been declared righteous now by his blood
(Ephesians 1:7) By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of [our] trespasses, according to the riches of his undeserved kindness.
(Hebrews 9:22) unless blood is poured out no forgiveness takes place.
(Hebrews 9:24-28) For Christ entered, not into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us. 25 Neither is it in order that he should offer himself often, as indeed the high priest enters into the holy place from year to year with blood not his own. 26 Otherwise, he would have to suffer often from the founding of the world. But now he has manifested himself once for all time at the conclusion of the systems of things to put sin away through the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is reserved for men to die once for all time, but after this a judgment, 28 so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin and to those earnestly looking for him for [their] salvation.

Yes, we are to be merciful but that does not mean we can deny the sacrifice of Jesus.

How can you say you are a member of the congregation of God, when you want nothing to do with the Blood that actually purchased that very congregation.
(Acts 20:28) the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son].

 

If i ask for blessing to all who hear, it must be your god. Is it not true that whatever we ask in his name or whatever two or more of us may agree on, it shall be done for us? I called upon god to bless us all. I told you the name i invoke, I am has sent me. Through my being, and through yours, ours, is the only way to know god, being closer than our hand and nearer than our heart.
Again I am fine with god, and god with me, what is your hellish problem.

Again, you are omitting "if you eat." According to your premise, positively dead precludes resurrection, because if you are resurrected you are not positively dead. Or is it your positively dead but not really? If you are resurrected, did god lie to say you will positively die. Further and again, The lie that eve believed was that she was unlike god, not that she would not die.
She had no frame of reference for death, but she did have the love of her father, and it is that she desired. Not to disobey.

And again that is exactly the content of what you said, give me death, or it is not true.

No friend I understand. What brings death is eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, not believing a lie. Belief in a lie, does not represent truth.

 

Ukr-Cdn:

That's priest-talk. Nothing comes from god to me. I expend myself because it is all I know of 'redemption'.

OWB to thedope:

What do you think this "eating of the tree" actually is OWB?!

 

Animals die, God did not create them to live forever, some have very short lifespans and thus Adam and Eve would have seen death and would have known what God meant when he said they would die if they ate of the tree.

As for this, God didn't tell them they would be bad for eating, he said they would surly die. Are you really suggesting that God is so unjust as to punish Adam and Eve for something he didn't fully inform them about?

Only Eve was said to be deceived, Adam was not deceived and ate knowingly.

Like I said, only Eve was deceived, no where does the Bible say that Adam was deceived.

And no matter their intent, they did disobey.

Nope, I leave that up to you.

 

Ransom is payment? What was that payment?

As for, earning our life back, we can't earn our lives back, no amount of works on out part can earn out lives.

 

What did you have in mind.

If someone puts up a door that attempts to bar people from entering into God's Kingdom, I seriously attempt to get the door out of the way.

 

I know very well what has been said about christ, what did he say? I desire mercy not sacrifice. As I told you, paul was a zealot, it was important to him to marry jewish tradition to christ teaching. Did paul ever make the statement that christ had told him to relay the things that he said? What he recounted of his dealings with christ, was the episode on the road. That the sheddiing of blood represents redemption is a distortion, a continuation of the jewish program of blood sacrifice. It is the resurrection that represents redemption. If christ is not risen then there is no cause for our faith.

Your attempts to discredit by comparing what I say to your interpretation of bible is useless, because it simply will not happen. I am not here to prove the bible wrong of right. If that does not sit well with you, then that is something you need to attend to, but I am not the one to satisfy your quest for blood. I am working on removing the barriers we have built against the perception of love. The idea that punishment is justified is just such a barrier, like a parent telling a child this hurts me more than it hurts you, simply an excuse for violence, which is a totally ambiguous lesson, is violence love? The lesson of the resurrection is totally unambiguous. Not you will positively die, but you may be resurrected. That is a contradiction in terms. There are no natural enemies in the kingdom of god.

 

----- OWB to thedope:

thedope has to do with Jesus. Not his death.

thedope is a lover of life. Not a worshipper.

 

Nice of you to stop by and check on us.

The topic, from my point of view is now two things.

One, what is death and do men die or do they just live on after death in some other form.

And does "mercy not sacrifice" mean that Jesus did not sacrifice his life for us.

As far as I'm concerned this your thread and if you want to redirect it, I am willing to change to the topic to one you find more acceptable.

 

The payment is to pick up your cross and follow him. The crucifixion and resurrection are teaching devices, they are part of christ teaching. Yes forgiveness redeems you. As you forgive you are forgiven, you are not forgiven if you do not forgive, regardless if you believe in sacrifice or not. What is said, faith without works is dead.