People's drug of choice?

This is a very good post. It shows that one can balance a wide range of drugs responsibly and enjoy them all for separate reasons.

 

On an individual basis people will find more meaning in their own interests. I will most likely always find more meaning in psychedelics. But to each his own. It'd be foolish to say you don't want to take a drug because it makes you feel good. Of course feeling good sounds appealing, but I think you can find more meaning to taking a drug and that drug to answer the question can define the person. I've asked a friend why he takes psychedelics, and he had the same answer as I, to learn. We all have some reason for taking drugs though, so I don't mean to put anybody down for their drug of choice, but I think if you were to generalize, most drugs will have different reasons of use.

Am I wrong?

 

Edit: I realize this reply sounds a but harsh. Please don't take it that way at all. I just don't attempt to make my replies sound overly polite. I just answer the question at hand. I am not trying to be hostile whatsoever. Thanks!

You are wrong because you are implying that feeling good is somehow inferior to 'learning' (whatever you meant by that...). There is no objective truth that states one is superior to the other. In fact, it should be obvious in modern thought, there for things as subjective as drug experiences, there exists no objective 'superior' and 'inferior'. To me, I DO learn a lot from opioids. I learn to love myself. I learn to listen to other people. I learn to have a reason to live. Maybe other people don't 'learn' those things as much, but I do.

And for amphetamines, I 'learn' a hell of a lot on them. I have learned more mathematics on amphetamines than most people would in a lifetime. Again, you may feel that learning a 'subject' is inferior to 'learning' whatever it is you learned on psychedelics. But I don't think there is evidence for objectively placing one above the other.

I will freely admit that MY drugs are more addictive than YOUR drugs, but I don't think that means that my drugs are 'inferior' to yours. Please reply. I am not being rude but simply trying to understand this weird attitude that certain experiences can somehow be 'superior' to others when in reality, they are abstract experiences that really have no intrinsic value. Their value is determined only by the user.

 

My drug of choice is marijuana - I love experiencing the subtly different effects from different strains, and then being able to choose which strain I want depending on my mood.

If I'm feeling tired and exhausted after a long day at work, a nice sativa lifts my spirits and gives me some energy.

If I'm stressed out and just want to chill and relax, a heavy indica can wash away all of the stress and allow me to get lost in a good book.

I used to avoid smoking weed by myself because I saw it as he behavior of a 'stoner' or drug addict. I'm glad I've changed my perspective, because now I enjoy smoking alone much more than with a group of people.

 

I like how Cannabis has different strains with such varied effects. As you can tell by my signature, I take pharmaceuticals almost exclusively, and in each class of drug, the drugs are almost the same (you know, Adderall and Vyvanse are slightly different, but not much...), so Cannabis has an appeal to me although I haven't had any in many years.

Perhaps when I move in a month, I will reconnect with my old friends who occasionally partake in Cannabis and will get to try it again. I haven't had a puff of Cannabis SINCE I became dependent on 'hard' drugs like opioids and amphetamines, so I am curious to see my reaction to it.

 

I can see why someone would argue that opiates, benzos, and other highly addictive drugs are more selfish than something like acid or mushrooms because you're doing it for personal pleasure rather than seeking some sort of deeper understanding of the world and people around you. That said, I dot agree with it, but I can see why someone would make that argument.

 

Yes. I am glad that you realize that while that may be a popular opinion, it certainly IS NOT fact.

A over-generalization can be proven false by even ONE counterexample (as all mathematicians and logicians know). So I will prove it false.

Theorem: Taking dopaminergic drugs like amphetamines and opioids are somehow inferior to drugs like psychedelics and Cannabis because they induce raw pleasure and don't 'teach you anything.'

Counterexample: etkearne enjoys both dopaminergic drugs as well as psychedelic drugs. etkearne does not generally experience any sense of selfishness on drugs like opioids or amphetamines. In fact, he is able to focus on people closer, feel more empathy with people, and is able to experience ALL aspects of life in a richer extent. While psychedelics allow etkearne to examine his deep psyche, they do not result in any sort of behavior that is more empathetic or spiritually enriching than the other drugs. They are different types of drugs for sure, but etkearne is not a better person when he takes psychedelics instead of his prescribed, low to moderate doses of amphetamines and opioids.

Thus, a counterexample has been shown and the Theorem is false. I hope this rather silly (admittedly) logical exercise will somehow stop this awful prejudicing of people who find spiritual benefits from taboo drugs.

 

I tend to think everyone could get to learn to love mushrooms by encouraging me to eat them. : D

My prejudice for mushrooms over ozempilzentin is magic!

 

one drug isn't necessarily "superior". Though there are pros and cons to each, I gotta tell you withdrawal sucks ass based off my caffeine addiction I ended last year... If you can learn from a drug, then its great that you can have that experience. But what I learn from psychedelics is very strong Nd personal, like that you would experience on opiates. Psychedelics allow all of your sensory input to be seen, which in a normal state is filtered. So it is a very enhanced reality, everything you see is there, so you are exposed to things you have once never noticed. It's opening, and on a general note they take that experience back to reality. And it's great that you can learn from opiates, but if we're generalizing, most people take opiates because they feel good on them. And if that is the case, what are they bringing to reality? They have to do it again to appreciate it.


So on that note, I would say you are more likely to experience a life change for the positive with psychedelics and that is why it is "superior" to other drugs from my POV. But I also understand that you and others will find other values on drugs like opiates. And if that works for you, then that is superior to your life over psychedelics. But I do feel bad because lots of people I know how fucked their lives up cause of meth, x, and drugs that aren't good for your health.

 

@Black Lotus: Ecstasy is a psychedelic, and a damn good one at that.

I'm pretty sure if we were trying to make any sort of theory based on this we would seek statistical significance and would therefore seek to reach an upper 95% of whatever were trying to prove in the theory. Your anecdotal evidence would actually be considered an error in logic as a faulty generalization then. But maybe I'm not following something, the whole idea of you trying to make an obvious generalization into a theory seems silly to me anyways.

 

I just find it absolutely elitist and ridiculous to claim that a DRUG is superior to another drug. It reeks of people with a strong sense of self-importance and strong egoism. I am not saying any particular people in this thread ARE egoistic, but saying things that essentially "rank" drug users from essentially 'scum' to 'enlightened' people is sick and discriminatory.

I really don't care what some individual on the internet thinks about MY behavior because my own behavior is in my control and no one else can make claims about my behavior. But I feel concern for the OTHER responsible opioid and stimulant users who clearly, in the minds of many people, are considered to be of inferior enlightmental status. I don't think those other people should be subjected to such subtle but obvious discrimination.

If a psychedelic user were truly enlightened, wouldn't they realize the value of all peoples' experiences, even if they may not understand it? Wouldn't they realize that different minds can gain enlightenment from different sources? If not, perhaps you need to do more self-study than you think. Perhaps your mind is not as 'open' as you quite think it is. Have you ever considered that? Again, I am not 'defensive' about myself, as I know that opioids AND psychedelics have both enriched my inner self in boundless ways. But I care for the other users who may not have the nerve to stand up and say what they think. That's all.

Just give people a chance even if they don't think the same way you do.

 

Etkearne, you are the one who made all these judgements and generalizations about amphetamine and opiate users in the first place. Maybe you should check yourself and your assumptions before going attempting to point out the faults of others.

Looking at some of the issues you raise, I think there is a slight pretentiousness with some psychedelic users, but opiates users and amphetamine users have been given plenty of chances, some are plenty arrogant and pretentious themselves and in fact which fucking drugs can you go pick up from a doctor and which ones remain schedule 1 across the board?

If we just look at surface aspects, Many users of opiates/amphetamines who have 'been given a chance' have ended up with serious addiciton problems, which has caused other problems within their lives. This was happening even before psychedelics had entered the picture in the west. Psychedelics have almost a non existant mortality rate compared to many annual deaths produced from opiates/amphetamines and they just do not produce the same type of compulsive behavior that opiates/amphetamines and certain other drugs produce. Does that mean every single individual will suffer these problems from these drugs? Not necessarily but as Black Lotus said many lives that some of us know have been seriously negatively effected. Your ego is so inflated that you can't even recognize how detrimental these drugs have been to these individuals. I've seen plenty of people cause harm due to the effects of crystal meth in my life, so no more chances need to be given there for me. Even in my personal experience I have used and still use some drugs of abuse, probably longer than you have etkearne and I can definitely tell a world of difference between the compulsive type of behavior brought on by a vicodin, cocaine and ketamine type of drug compared to an LSD or mushrooms type of drug.

 

Well Etkearne, there are a couple of ways to look at it. There's the way that's kind of like comparing cups of tea. Some people like black, green, white, various flavors, etc. but who's to say which is better?
But then you throw coffee into the mix, and soda, and you have different beverages and well some are better than others. Sodas good but the carbonation can be a bit much, or the health issue kind of sucks. You don't like all of the sugar, teas good, but it sucks if you just jogged for awhile. See know there are different categories and some are better than others, but the best is different for each person. The fact is that it can be classified as better and worse.


Now this is like drugs, we have psychedelics, doesn't really matter if I like shrooms or acid better cause I'll get a similar feel, I'm mean it's a bit more drastic than changing teas, but you get the idea. Then we add in opiates, marijuana, etc. are different "beverages" and now again we have a different set of pros and cons. But now those pros and cons are much more significant. A sense of high euphoria can be found, feeling accomplished, content, fulfilled. Watching the world change shape right in front of your eyes as you melt with nature into beauty. But the cons are worse. Visit hell as your mind experiences the most terrifying personal experience of your life. And addiction. Now we can class these drugs. Person to person they may vary, but here's the deal, I suffer a terrible trip, I can give up psychedelics and be off for the rest of my life just with a snap of my fingers. Opiates, much like caffeine, will suffer terrible terrible withdrawal symptoms, your lost. Getting out of that shit is a miracle and bless those who were fortunate to escape. And even more so the ones that struggle as they need it the most. I feel for your love now, but I also fret for your future, that is dangerous shit you have it's not my business whether you do it or not. I even would push to legalize it, even if I wouldn't do it -although I do plan to experience some opiate once. But I really hope you don't get sucked into this Etkearne. I really hope. And I wish you could just see it my way, I understand yours.

 

I think you both read me wrong here. I think my enthusiasm has been grossly misinterpreted as egoism and or defensiveness. It is not the case.

You both replied in very balanced ways so I think you are beginning to understand what I am saying.

When it comes to addiction, I an well aware that "my" drugs are more dangerous. But objectively, just looking at the drugs' effects, I am not talking about that aspect. I thought we were just discussing the type of enlightenment one can gain from the drugs, not the inherent risk for addiction. I am certainly not going to claim that opioids are less addictive than LSD. That would be really silly and stupid. But when it comes to just the sheer level of personal growth a person CAN reach on opioids, I think it is high just like psychedelics. I am not saying all or even most users feel this way.

In fact, i don't even know any other opioid or amphetamine users so I can't make a claim for them. But for me, I have really opened my mind and healed a lot of personal wounds with these drugs, and I would say that it is just as important as my(notably fewer- but that's because I don't have access to them....) psychedelic or Cannabis experiences. That is just me. And I am simply saying that you can not lump ALL users into one box when there are clearly people like myself (and there ARE others like me albeit in the minority) who gain many good things from these drugs.

I am sorry if i come off as egotistical. That is far from the reality. I just like to boldly state my claims without sugar coating them.

 

The only problem with that argument is that you CAN'T overlook the addiction and the faults of the drug. If you were to look at the enlightenment only, then pretty much every drug WOULD be of equal value. For instance, I wanted to try MDMA/x/ecstasy, you feel enlightened, but it is SO bad for your brain. Here's my deal. Psychedelics, do not hurt your brain other than the fact that they make you think, they are very constructive experiences. Where as other drugs do damage parts of your brain, a destructive result...

I'm not saying that you doing it is wrong in any way, or that you need to stop and agree with me. But that's how I see it, so I would personally "rank" psychedelics as the highest drug. But that doesn't mean I'm right. It's just how it fits my life.

Now I could take SOO many perspectives about this, and in some of them, you are completely right. Ranking one drug "superior" is egotistic. I would like to let you know though, I am interested in opiates, so I don't mean to push you down. I even want them to be legal just as much as I do with psychedelics. (Well maybe I want psychedelics to be legal a little more haha) but the point is, I do want it legalized, and I respect your interest and learnings.

 

Okay. That is good you respect my opinions. But I still must disagree slightly in that when I examine a drug, I don't examine its 'average effect on the user.' To me, that is not an attribute of the acute effect of the drug. I tend to think very pharmacologically about things, so when I examine the 'effects' of the drug, I look only at the effects that occur in the brain during the duration of the use.

Any negative effects of the drug after the use of the drug don't effect my 'ranking.' Perhaps that is where you misunderstood me. I fully acknowledge that opioids are addictive and psychedelics are not. All I am saying is that to 'rank' a drug, it is only fair to examine the most scientifically testable attributes of the substance: its pharmacological profile. I don't look at the average user nor their average approach towards the drug. I believe that is where we misunderstood each other.

I am a person who does not like to use the words 'good' or 'bad.' To me, those words are unscientific and laden with emotion. So when I talk about things, I tend to just stick with direct causations that I can scientifically describe.

I hope that resolves things.

 

It can say a good amount about in some sense.

If you really like weed, you probably enjoy the chill, relaxed, creativeness that comes with it - hippies, artists, rappers, get classified with weed but everyone smokes it

If you like coke alot, then for the time being you are okay with addiction. You probably like speedy things. Sterotypes can be trucker, a bussinessman, a hooker, and moviestar. Basically you have money to spend, and you either need to or like staying up for long periods of time.

If you like meth you probably are a person who stays up for long periods of time too, maybe working the night shift somewhere.

Herion you probably don't mind doing nothing, you like being super relaxed peaceful, in your nod state. This is where lines in character get drawn because of the thing that it leads too. Herion needles get shared, you get potential aids, etc etc. Things get grimey real quick. Meth you get self obssesed, forget hygeine, etc. There are meth heads with shiny teeth though. But a lot time is shows you don't mind being a greazy mofo.

If psychedelics are your number 1 then you enjoy expanding your consciousness. Going deep into your thoughts and emotions, and seeing reality in shifting forms. You probably listen to shpongle and probably go on the hip forums all day, and probably own a tyedye tshirt.

Those were all pretty stereotypical things just to point out. If you share a similar drug choice you know there will probably some similarities in your personality. The fact that you even do drugs says something about your personality.

 

Oh yeah, being into psychedelics I can tell you I'm all for the idea that drugs effect each user differently. Nice to know we agree on that.

But I would question, wouldn't it be fair to generalize psychedelics as more hippie-personas? I know I and every who does it is like that. We're trippy, out of our mind, characters! That's how'd I generalize myself as a user with LSD.

Because I think answering this question, on a very general statistical standpoint we can say a user's drug of choice says a lot about them. Of course it's not accurate as I have found with you. But a weed persona is as intheydreams mentioned is kind of a chill persona. Although almost everyone smokes it. I mean I found his comment very humorous and somewhat accurate to say the least.

I don't ever like to put others down though even though that is sometimes how I think. We're all in this world and have a freedom of choice. I know I hate when people rip on me for LSD, so I don't want to rip on you for opiates. But we as humans do tend to fall into some accurate stereotypes, whether positive or negative...

 

rabble rabble rabble . . . . i love weed and opiates

 

Yeah, good way to bring it back to the topic. I definitely would say a psychedelic enthusiast has a certain quirk to their personality. The existence of the 'typical' user is often true.

As an opioid user and stimulant user, I definitely fall into the stereotype of being very serious and very linearly thinking. I am very pensive and tend to enjoy things like mathematics and physics the most (more stimulants than opioids, but still...). I also, freely admit, that I fit the 'tortured' mind stereotype of an opioid user although not much anymore since my mental illness has been controlled.

Of course, like I said, I like psychedelics too (I just don't have access to most of them), so that explains my love for whacky music and strange art.