I just came from a town hall meeting (more advice)

I truly hate to be the messenger of a not so nice message. But somebody has to say something and it might as well be me. Hopefully those of you who read this see that I'm not trying to condemn or ridicule the movement but instead, give it some information that might help.

I threw out my computer so my Internet involvement is almost non-existent. So I hope there is some kind soul that can pass this information on.

Ok business,

I was at my town hall meeting where they discussed the occupy protestors in my area. The mayor directly said to us that he was in direct contact with the mayors of other cities and towns to learn how to best deal with the situation. He then went on to inform us that the best solution would be to leave the protestors alone and the general public eventually begins to see them as being comical. To paraphrase his words, "The public gets tired of seeing them and as the town's homeless people being to move in looking for freebies, the entire movement looks like squatters and lazy hippies. Thereby killing their movement"

There was a lot more said but the above was really the nuclear bomb of the discussion. He also referred to the people involved as the "no life nerds" of high school growing up to become the "internet geek" that watches too many youtube videos. Finally ending his diatribe by noting that the overwhelming majority of those claiming involvement in Occupy do so by sites like Facebook and Twitter, never once leaving their homes and are therefore non-contributing members to society.

In having told you the above, I hope everyone understands that I'm not against any of you. I want this movement to catch fire and bring about the social revolution we desperately need. But as an old militant from the 60s and a retired lawyer, I would, as a fact of morality, be negligent in my duty not to say something to someone.

Therefore allow me to make clear what must be done for Occupy to ignite.

1)It must leave the Internet.

The Internet suited its purpose as a catalyst and as a point of contact for information. But it must stop there! You can not facebook page, twitter or anonymous change. It must be done in the streets and if you're not in the streets then your not actually part of the movement. In fact, you're part of the problem. There is simply too much reliance of the Internet​

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2)It must be put to music!

Music and not the Internet flames passions and inspires hope. Plus you can't slander and assassinate the song. Whatever you do to the singer, the song will live on.
So I advise you to contact your favorite music artists. Send them messages telling them you want to hear them sing a song of support for Occupy or better still ask them to visit an Occupied area.
​

3)Free love.

This is what the establishment fears the most. This concept brings down empires. It builds bonds of trust and tenderness inside societies. Both the consumer driven economy and the military complex fall apart.

- So my advice is go out and start talking about "free love" and then go make love as much as you can and tell others you did. Sex is natural and there is no shame in it. People will talk about violence without a second thought but talk about sex makes people confront their own inadequacies and misconceptions. AND THAT'S GOOD TOO!!

You can wear a condom if you want. But just start hitting the "Free love" agenda. Ladies, I'm counting on you because women have the power to build an army of men willing to change the world for a little free love.​

 

I agree with skip on the internet point. The internet isn't going anywhere, even after the revolution. Abbie Hoffman by way of Marshall McLuhan stressed the importance of taking back our media and using the MSM against it's self. It is free advertisement, it is virtually everywhere, and virtually everyone is connected. I know personally without the internet, I wouldn't have a clue about what has been going on around the country and world. Without the internet, there wouldn't be the mass distribution of these videos of police brutality, and on the positive side, there wouldn't be rallying videos showing the success of the movement. This thing is going to get a whole lot bigger than just dancing in the streets. We need to take back EVERYTHING that belongs to the people. Money, rights, media, control of the environment and so on.

 

I need the interent. I rely on it to find out whats really going on. The media and the people up here are very closed minded. they have been brainwashed by the right. I feel like im on a raft all by myself.

 

I sometimes get a vision of a large crowd of people marching on an Occupy camp chanting, "Whose park? .... Our Park!"

The message from Occupy that the campers are the 99% taking back from the 1% is hard to sustain when the campers are co-opting public spaces. (That might not be the message that was sent, but, to a large degree, that's the message that's heard.)

 

Yeah, that idea would work if it wasn't a fact that about 99% really do stand to benefit from the goals of OWS.

Also, OP, if you really threw away your computer, instead of giving it to someone who needs it or recycling it, you deserve the worst sorts of contempt from all (and some serious fuckin' pain, but at least I can take care of the contempt) for wasting the world's precious metals and putting them somewhere they can never be used again.

 

They're not co-opting anything, they represent part of the public, public means that anybody can use the space for whatever purpose they choose. Where else are they supposed to protest? The whole point of public space is that it's owned by everybody, using it to demonstrate en masse doesn't counteract that fact. Plus the whole point of demonstrating is that it creates conflict, it creates inconvenience to people.



To address the original post, I agree with the other sentiments in this thread that the Internet is absolutely essential to the protest. Yes it is important that it's not only living on the Internet, but you can't deny how valuable it has been. I think right now it's going to be a bit of a lull while the weather is cold, but once the warm weather comes back to the northeast in a few months I think there will be mass demonstrations on a scale that hasn't been seen in decades. I personally would love to take part in the occupy protests in person, but right now it's just not an option for me physically, and unfortunately I don't have the financial means to provide any support myself, so I'm reduced to following online for the time being.

Music is important, and there are musicians out there that are taking part, and helping push the movement forward, but they're not going to look anything like the musicians that were out there in the 60s. For somebody who has been through this before, it's going to take an even more open mind than you might imagine to accept what this generation is going to do with it, but I think it's going to be a hell of a ride no matter what.

Lastly, I'm really not sure what to make of your point about free love, only that I don't really think that's necessary at all. Free love didn't come about because of the civil rights movement or anything important, it mostly came about because of the emotional liberation of LSD becoming a widespread phenomenon in my opinion. I don't think a sexual component is necessary and I think it would alienate way too many people to be worth going down that road again.

All in all I think occupy is the start of a very large movement of social change that will be seen as the generations shift once again. It's crazy and scary at times but it's also exhilarating and I for one can't wait to see what comes of it.

 

Free love doesn't work in a society riddled by AIDS and other diseases. Sorry, but this isn't the 60s anymore and sleeping with anyone who looks good to you doesn't do anything to add credibility to a political message.

Your other points are valid, and I have nothing against free love in and of itself. I'm all for a society in which people can do whatever they want without facing judgement from others. However, I think that kind of society should come as a result of fighting for basic freedom. It should not act as a force in and of itself.

I just don't see the validity of it and I think if the movement really wants to be taken seriously, they should leave out extraneous and insignificant slogans like "free love."

It just doesn't have shit to do with anything, really.

 

Spot on, I think.

As for the inevitable "but I don't want to be inconvenianced in pubic" reply, too fuckin' bad, you can still go use the park, the occupiers won't keep you out.... they'll welcome you. the "us", with "our" park, includes YOU, it means police and the city don't have the right to kick people out based on the interests of corporations. You can be there too, and know what? the police would target you just the same, because you're one of "us". So shut up and start occupying OUR park.

 

A multi-week 24hr/day protest??!!?? The camping=protesting argument might fly in legal briefs, but to a lot of folks, it sounds a lot like the excuse of a child who isn't good at sharing or taking turns.

"Trust us, we have your best interests at heart." Is that a pitch from OWS or from an insurance company?

The Occupy campers may represent the interests of the 99%. But they aren't the 99%.

Those public spaces are for all the people.
The Occupy campers
the Occupy supporters who sleep at home
the people who agree with the issue of wealth maldistribution, but don't get what camping has to do with anything.
The folks who think that the camps are more of an eyesore than an inspiration.
The folks who don't care how the country is run, they just want to play frisbee.
Rock ribbed Republicans.
All of those are parts of the 99%.

These public spaces are for all to use and all to share.

Is Occupy another bunch of leaders who will do what is best for the 99%, no matter what the 99% thinks. Is Occupy the "right thinkers" who will lead the "unaware" among the 99% to the promised land?

 

Your argument would hold water if occupying people were saying that nobody else is allowed in the park. That by saying "our park" is saying that it's nobodies but theirs. That is not what is being said, "whose [blank], OUR [blank]" is a rallying cry. Its purpose is to inspire and encourage people not to be swayed by displays of authority. As in it's not the police's, it's not the corporations', it's not the government's park, it our park. As in everybody.

Occupy isn't saying "trust us,we'll take care of it," it's saying "if you have a different perspective, come join us, share your perspective." General assemblies are run on consensus, that means that everyone has an opportunity to speak and be heard. Obviously they're not going to be moved toward consensus with somebody who doesn't agree with the basic premise of what they're doing. But they're trying.

Also, there are no leaders, there are no individuals that are hierarchically superior to any other individuals.

The movement claims to represent all who are being put down by our current socioeconomic structure. By definition that actually includes people who may not want to be counted, who may not feel like that movement is speaking for them. The point is it's not anyone saying we are better, we know better what's best for everybody, it's more like we want to figure out how our society can be more beneficial to everyone. Ultimately I think it's trying to lead down a path that overturns the very concept of hierarchy. In other words just because somebody is a Senator, or a CEO, or a hedge fund manager, or a janitor, or fry cook, or unemployed, or a stay-at-home parent, or student or whatever they all have the same voice.

There are definitely people who are working against their own interests in this society. If they choose to do that so be it, but nobody else gets to determine whether Occupy gets to continue existing or continue using public spaces either. That is up to the individuals who are participating. And again public means open to anyone, it doesn't mean everyone gets a turn, it means anyone who wants to be there is welcome.

Ultimately there should be room for everybody's purpose, but the notion that because someone is staying somewhere trying to make a point with their very presence, it somehow invalidates them or make them greedy is just ridiculous. You're talking about people who are sacrificing their comfort and in many cases their dignity to draw attention to the systematic unfairness in our society. Do you think it's just fun and games? Do you think that when people are occupying that it's just like being at home?

What Occupy is doing is the very antithesis of what you seem to think it's doing. I'm sorry that you don't agree that staying in place is a form of protest, because it actually is. It seems to be making you pretty mad, so obviously it's doing its intended purpose because it's inflaming other people too. Getting other people heated, and getting people to talk about what you're doing is the first step towards getting your message heard, that's what's going on with Occupy.

Another note I just thought about, you don't draw attention to yourself I doing what you're supposed to do, what you're expected to do, the only way to draw attention to oneself is to do precisely what is not permissible, what is not generally acceptable. So generally yeah, it's not normal for people to be camped out in public parks, but again that's the point.

 

The TEA party is a vile thing, standing for the corporate opposite of OWS, and I support their vile right to assemble in all their vile glory.

As for weather or not camping is symbolic, FUCK yes it is, so you're saying you don't like the fact that some people camping don't have anywhere else to sleep? They're unemployed and homeless so they need to secret themselves away? I don't fuckin' think so. If they're an eyesore, you better get to fixing shit so they can go take care of business.

As for republicans or whatever, awesome, go use the public space, you have as much right to it as anyone. If wal-street execs went to eat lunch in the park and said that it was a public space and they had the right to be there, I would be fine with it. I mean, they should be prosecuted and locked up, but until that time, they have a right to the park too.

We have the right to petition for a redress of greviances, which doesn't mean protest one day and then go home. It means we can make a legitimate effort to make it happen. If there has been no redress after weeks, the protest needen't end afer weeks.

 

As an FYI:

This section of the forum is to discuss support of the Occupy Movement.

If anyone wishes to discuss opposition to the Occupy Movement they can go do that over in the Politics section of the forum.

 

We are all different. They are all the same.

 

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.- The Beatles

 

Bill Clinton..

 

The Internet is the drug of the middle class youth of the 21st century and as dependency and addiction fueled beliefs in it spiral out of control; It will destroy the youth movements in the same way the drugs of the 60s destroyed the love generation.

I've learned a few things in my life. One of them being you can't argue with an addict. Because no matter what you say or how much logic and evidence you present them with. Addicts will continue to claim that are right and anything to the contrary is wrong, just until they hit rock bottom. Unfortunately by then it's normally too late.

1984 is real and it's now here. Given the current decisions and tactics of today's youth, I'm very happy to be an old man that won't be alive when the fascists take total control. Today's youth can either organize and take it to the streets. Or, they can go "twit" about it. It's your futures, so do as you wish.

I wish all you all the luck and love in the world. Because all of you are going to need it.
Peace and Love and Good bye