God and OUR children

Many say god made us...

But what happens when WE build conscious beings.?
with no more than half a brain and 8fingers&2thumbs

Does 'god' become 'grangod'?

For just 100 years after we built reliable steam/train engines.
We built fission/fusion warheads.

Now we dream of part man, part machine mods.
And soon after..biological immortallity.
All, well with the limmits of the possible.

Sounds like Speculative Fiction?
Occam thinks we will create the first self aware machine in 20 to 30 years...
So many alive now will experience it.
[maybe No Fate]

And IT may well ask 'what is this god you speak of'?

What will you say?

Occam

 

In the long run, The Creation is often more intelligent its Creator.

The IQ of evolution was about 0

 

When AI present ultimate rationality, they will make the same argument, occam: "God cannot be understood rationally, and my immoratlity is secured"

 

In 20 to 30 years there won't be enough natural resources to produce such beings.

 

The USA will start being conservationist when our comodities start to deminish.

 

I'm thinking this machine will either be built in the USA, in which case it will be christianly self aware, or china, in which case I cannot understand it hehe. Would it have a personality? I'm not sure.. if we gave a holistic explanation of g-d (g-d is everything and everywhere etc) then perhaps it would just equate g-d with nature or something.

 

Well personally I don't have as much faith in human ingenuity as Occam here does ... 20-30 years ... meh.

The problem I see with that is ... so far, we don't have anything NEAR artificial intelligence. Yes, we have Chess programs that can beat grandmasters, we have robots who can walk up steps, robots who can draw nice pictures, and even robots that collect information about the surrounding environment, then discard that information and drive into walls. (Okay, I admit, I ripped that last one off of bash.org)

However ...

That Chess program is just a brute forcing program ... it just analyzes all possible moves and then tries to analyze the moves it can make in the future. If any of you have played the game Go (or Igo in Japan), using a 19x19 board (rather than the 8x8 in Chess; that's a HUGE difference), where stones can be placed ANYWHERE on the board, even seemingly at random, and still be good moves ... and where quite literally, multiple battles are fought at the same time.

And yet, I personally can beat a good Go AI program at its highest setting, and I barely know how to play the game (I've played ... 4 games versus humans, and I only won a single one, against another person of my skill level, which is pathetically low).

And I could go on, but that's beating a dead horse.

I think that, maybe by the end of this century, we may have a very primitive AI, and that it will be a great number of years later before that primitive AI evolves into something closer to an actual self-aware, thinking being. The problem, of course, lies in the fact that ... we dont' know anything about our OWN minds ... we don't know if morality is learned or "built-in", if intelligence is affected by our environment, and we don't know the result of that common "nature versus nurture" argument.

When we don't understand our own minds, how can we attempt to create a self-aware, thinking being, when we don't even know how or why we are self-aware or thinking.

I fear that basic morality will have to be built into the robot to begin with, and that, to me, doesn't necessarily constitute "intelligence." Conversely, if we make it so that basic morality is learned (if that's even possible!), then we will likely have many problems.

Issac Asimov's 3 Laws of Robotics are a good place to start, I believe, as far as basic robot morality goes. But I think we have a long way to go in understanding ourselves before we will be able to play the role of G-d.

i,robot was a really good movie, you should all watch it. Despite the fact that it's a few hundred years too early (in my opinion, haha), it was very interesting about this subject.

 

I assume you are a scientist in this field...?

 

Does everyone HAVE to be a scientist or expert to post in these forums? I don't think so. It always seems to come back to that though. This isn't the science forum. This is the philosophy forum. Asking questions is part of what philosophy is all about. Don't think that I'm personally attacking you. It's just that it get's rather old when everyone acts like you have to have a PHD in a particular area in order to "win" a debate, or begin to speculate about something. I haven't been posting here very long, but I'm sure that I'm not alone in my feelings.

 

Thumontico

Why would any rational being want immortallity?

And occam opinions the Thinking Mind CAN understand. [god]
For your god is a thinking mind..no?
Does it understand itself? Yes...omnipotent...

HoHo

Occam

 

Soulrebel51

In ten years we could run this planet on radiant solar energy..Resources are a fob for the wealthy...
PROFIT is the reason we still burn compressed trees to power supercomputers.
A dichotomy of ironic depth.

There are enough natural resources floating about out beyond your vision...! [the top of the atmosphere]
To let us build anything we want for a billion years.
And we CAN go 'get it'. Anytime we want....

Anytime

 

With the way things are looking now, I am not so optimistic about this.

Converting to solar power (or anything that is not oil) would cost energy companies more money than you could ever imagine. And it is common sense that rich, powerful people to not like to lose money and power, no matter what the consequences may be.

These would be...?

 

Soulrebel 51

These would be....?

Well enough solar detrius to power our factories and powerplants for a billion years..
There are chunks of pure water ice in our systen that are sizable percentages of the total water on earth...All together..they dwarf our wee planet for H2o
More heavy meatels than we could use just sail past in the sky each time you look at it...
METHOD sees it. Method tells power of it....be assured

TEN YEARS OF HUMAN DEFENCE SPENDING [1.5trillion US per annum]
TURNED TO SPACE.
WOULD LEAVE ALL EARTHLY PLANETARY MINES AND POWER STATIONS UNPROFITABLE..

the ptb know this.....but fear the side effects.

Occam

 

I was refering to the theist arguement.

 

I would find some way to convert things coming in through the atmosphere into energy, because they won't go away anytime soon. I have no idea how, but converting gamma rays or carbon 14 into energy would be grand. If I had any idea how to do this, I would either be killed by the power companies, or rich. Ah well, ya win some, ya lose some.

In reference to the idea about when smart robots think for themselves will come about, just remember all those lovely recordings of what people said life today would be like, living on the moon was one I think...

 

Disarm

Quite True
We dont live in orbit or on the moon...
Why?....someone decided it was not profitable....or expedient
NOT that we cannot do it.

Visionaries rarely take political/ecconomic factors into consideration.

But truley MI may not happen for a hundred years if that...
Occam speculated what we COULD do...
Not what we will.

We COULD all be travelling in flying cars...right now...but we do not because of POLITICAL considerations....

Occam

 

Indeed.

Perhaps if humans focused entirely around the creation of A.I., then the first self-aware being might be created within 30 years.

But Hikaru suggests it will take at least 10 times as long, if not longer.

 

a few lil things

1. energy, if im correct, can only be converted into energy. i believe theres no known way to take something, such as carbon14, and create energy. energy is conserved; never used, never created, only converted.

occam, i think youre political/economic factor idea definately has some merit, but i think many other things have effected the mentioned ideas, ie living on the moon and flying cars. many scientists around the world would be trying to develope a practical flying car, i would believe.

and as for AI.. well thats a tricky one.

 

How about zero point energy.

 

Hikaru

Quite true...If humanity wished it..we could do it...
But other things are more important for us at this time...
Like making sure we dont choke on our own excreta.

Occam