The solution to all western politics is...

Don't play and don't pay.

What I mean by that is stop voting and stop paying taxes. The first thing you should understand is that a "true" democracy might never have actually existed. But what we classify as democracy today so far from the concept of actual democracy that if you participate in the facade, you're guilty of being not only being a willing accomplice but empowering the continuance of the fraud.

Yes if you look at our laws and examine what the definition of democracy is and compare that to what is currently in practice; You will discover that under the law it would match the definition of fraud. If it fails to fulfill it's reputed and alleged definition but does so for another. Then this ispo facto demonstrates that it by it's nature fraud.

Consider it this way, Republican or Democrat, our elected officials end up working for the same employer. That employer being the "government". There is no concurrence of merit in existence between them. When there is no concurrence then your vote only becomes a defacto writ of consent. So forget your social programming and refuse to vote.

Refuse to pay taxes is pretty easy to understand by comparison. When you refuse to pay taxes, you're essentially cutting off the food supply. And in a market capitalist driven society, it's the only vote that counts. It may interest everyone to know that under international law, you are granted the right to refuse paying taxes to any nation if that nation is engaged in unethical or illegal activities. In layman's terms, if you were a gun salesman you could refuse to sell a gun to man you believe would use it for criminal activity or unsafely.

There you go, I've told you how to shut down the government.

 

The US was a government for more than a century before they started income taxes.
Tariffs on imported goods paid the bills back then.

 

Try looking at this from a different perspective. Think of government as big company responsible for building roads, managing the military, maintaining ports, etc. You're taxes are what you're paying in exchange for them doing all these things.

Now when any business fails to give you satisfactory service for your money. You have a legal right to refuse to continue to do business with that company. Just because it's called "taxes" doesn't make it anything other than what it actually is. A bill for services rendered.

 

I think of elected officials and appointees not as "The Government", but as franchisees who won a contract to provide for these public services. EG: Like we have in our national parks.

You don't shut down the parks (government), you find someone else to "Contract with America" when the franchise is up for renewal.

And I don't mean Newt's contract, I just borrowed his choice of words.

 

You're on the right track. But not enough people will do that fast enough for the drastic situation we are in. This death culture is destroying the planet and all life on it that gets in its way. And must be taken down. As soon as possible. And just by dropping out of society will not do that. Even though it is overall the ideal path. We must form an entire culture of resistance. Give all we can possibly give to the resistance of the destruction of life. Do not accept any small wins like so many of these pacifists seem to be proud of. That's pathetic. And we do not have time to celebrate or let alone even be happy with small and pathetic wins here and there for the environment or politics. We need to go for what truly needs to happen.

 

Guerilla,
I see your point, this issue is time sensitive.
I think that there had better be an alternative green network waiting in the wings to take over when the present social and energy network breaks down.
Not everyone can immediately prepare the replacement system, but I am glad for those who do take classes in green energy, who learn organic growing skills, and glad for those who are skilled in debunking the propaganda of the right wing and neo-conservatives. Even the libertarians are sometimes pawns of the elite.

I am glad that you recognize the need to form an entire culture of resistance.
If I go up to the steps of Congress and leave a shovelfull of cow manure there as a statement of opposition to the agri-chemical industry for instance, I come across as a rude crackpot and I might even make the evening news. Then within a day or two, I get fined a few bucks for littering and the public forgets about me and the cause I am trying to promote.

The schools are full of kids who could someday take up the cause. What are they being taught?

The AM radio is so dominated by well-funded right wing propaganda that a lot of us get indoctrinated into being the stooges for the Military Industrial Complex. Even Eisenhower warned us about it and he was a somewhat conservative Republican and retired Army general.

 

I have a practical question.
How does one stop paying taxes?

Stop paying sales taxes? How, ask the clerk at A&P not to charge you for it?
Stop paying payroll tax withholding? Does HR have those forms for me to fill out?
Stop paying property taxes? Its wrapped into the rent, and the landlord won't go along with it.

How does one do this "stop paying taxes" thing?

 

Trying to convince people to stop feeding the machine and instead starve the machine , is like trying to sell condoms to pregnant women .

Go out and try it sometime , tell em they got to quit there job , walk out on their houses , let their car go , default on their student loans and credit cards . Go hungry and homeless . And let me know just how many people just hop right on board . I can tell you how many , 0 . Oh sure , we all bitch and whine we want change , as long as it's easy and causes no hardship to ourselves . Yet how many have the intestinal fortitude to suffer to bring about the change they wish for ? See most people want change , as long as they don't have to do anything , or more important give anything up . As long as we keep drinking the poison the sicker we are going to get . Yet try to get that glass of sweet liquid out of there hands .

And you're right Truth , cut the money supply . But it's a hard sell . Like trying to pull a starving dog off a meat wagon .

 

Maybe if you make a couple of forum threads about it it'll resolve itself.

 

I was going to post a similiar reply.

Sales tax is an easy one. If you don't buy into a consumeristic system then its pretty easy to avoid paying sales tax. You just stop buying things, period. My state doesn't tax food, so I could conceivably buy only what I need to survive and avoid sales tax altogether. Personally I have enough material goods already to avoid buying anything but food for quite a while.

Its property taxes and income taxes that I don't quite understand.

The only way to avoid income taxes is to quit your job and live off the land. Otherwise the taxes will either be subtracted from each paycheck or eventually seized from your wages.

But that creates another problem. In order to live off the land, you must own the land. And in order to own the land you must pay property taxes. Otherwise the government comes and takes your land.

So, I echo Mike...how do you stop paying taxes?

 

Exactly.
So you don't really ever own the land, you just rent it from the government...:smoking:

not completely off-topic, but that's my big gripe with all these smuggy smuggertons who claim to live "off the grid" on their 'own' land...

lol, oysh, pfft, etc! :indian_chief:

P.S.... if for one day no one bought a Coke, it would prolly rock the financial world...

Wonder what would happen if no one bought gasoline for a week? :devil:

ZW

 

A lot of folks would run out of gas trying to get to work on Friday.

 

When most people understand that property tax, is almost always, paid directly to your local community government in exchange for garbage collection, etc. The worry about paying it subsides. So unless you have a complaint with your local mayor's office; you're actually getting something of value in exchange for your money.

Furthermore as radical and impractical as it my sound, you have the right to occupy and live on any federal land. The only time you will have a problem with big heavily armed gorillas is if you try to build a permanent structure. But to this extent I'm certain there's other solutions a little less drastic and but still unorthodox.

The problem is sales tax and payroll tax.

The sales tax can be avoided by simply not buying anything and it's actually easier than it first appears. It's the greed factor and the impulse nature to buy that trips most people up. There is easily dumpster diving instead of shopping and a simple trip to the local library should provide you with information about what's edible in your local area. The library is also a good source for information on alternative energy sources. (My girlfriend constructed a solar powered hot air engine from garbage)

As for payroll taxes, this one is going to be damn hard. There is really only two solutions, the first is go work for yourself or ask your employer to put you on as an independent contractor thereby making payroll taxes your responsibility.

The second is to start organizing yourselves into a collective group. You need to break out of modern society's antisocial techno model and talk to your coworkers, your employer and those in your local community face to face. Internet be damned because nothing gets done unless you get off your ass. (Face to face conversations and meetings in basements are 100% mandatory for this to work. )

Think of it as a type of union that needs to be created. The government gets away with making you pay payroll taxes because it can force you to pay them. As a single voice of dissent you're going to be silenced pretty easily. But once you form a group of 10 or more people, the government starts retreating pretty quickly and seeks to "negotiate" out a solution. The government knows that 10 is a magic number; too large to arrest without media attention and too difficult to marginalize.

If anything the 60s proved is once you hit 10 committed individuals, that it can transform into a 100 in a week and a thousand in a month. Believe me it's not hard finding 10 people willing to commit to a cause like this. It's only going to require 2 or 3 open to the public meetings in someone's home.

 

Bwahahahahahahaha. That's the sound made by every IRS employee in the ENTIRE "service center" after reading a letter explaining that.

Stop voting? Yeah, that'll show 'em.

Sales Tax: Just don't buy anything.

Payroll Taxes: for Income Tax, complete IRS Form W-4, write "exempt" on live 7, submit the completed form to your employer" -- states with a personal income tax have a similar form; for FICA (Social Security) you may be able to opt out of the Social Security system based on conscientious objection; other deductions vary from state to state as do the ways to avoid them.

Or, as in one of VoT's previous posts, work only as an "independent contractor" -- your client (employer) will not be obligated to make the usual tax deductions from what you are paid -- most WILL be required to file a Form 1099 advising you (and the IRS) of the amount you were paid in the previous year.

In any case, if you have tax liability and do not pay, the IRS will eventually seize any asset(s) you may have. Of course, you may appeal your case to the International Court of Justice. (oh yeah)

Property Tax: If you rent, forget it; if you "own" property there are several ways to avoid this tax, such as starting your own religion and making your property the "church" -- somewhat difficult or maybe impossible depending on your state. Otherwise, just tell your state's tax collecting agency that it is in accordance with "international law" that you are refusing to pay your property tax -- then get ready to vacate the property.

In many (if not most) states, property tax is levied by the state, county, and municipality. Monies collected as property taxes are for general use with some portion earmarked for education, transportation, relief, economic developement... States/counties/cities may have different uses or earmarks. In many areas services such as garbage collection... are not provided based on payment of property taxes.

Property tax is one of, if not the most unfair of all taxes: one works and receives compensation (wages or salary) which is taxed (income tax), with whatever is left the person buys a home or other real property and Property Tax is assessed on that home which was purchased with the income which was already taxed. Sales Tax is much the same except that it is only applicable upon purchase -- Property Tax is levied/assessed on an annual basis for as long as the property is "owned" (with few exceptions).

Except: those places posted "no camping", "no overnight stays", "park closes at ...", military reservations, many wildlife refuges, "protected habitats"...

See above

Which is exactly what most advice regarding non-payment of sales, income, and property tax should be classified as.

Again, see above.

While not willingly paying ANY tax, I have found that the only real way to avoid them is by 1) living completely off the land without "owning" any; or, 2) living off the government dole, again "owning" no property; or, 3) by taking full advantage of regulations and procedures already built into the system. 100% avoidance seems impossible except by option 1 -- option 3 works quite well for many, including myself.

 

you even got a 'like' for this moronic retort...:banghead:

 

56olddog,

I'm up against a deadline because save for an act of God, I'm not going to be alive to see another Christmas season. I'm sorry to play the death card but it's the truth and I'm a father, grandfather and hopefully alive long enough to see the birth of my great grandchild. As much as I'm happy to be leaving this world to go be with my wife, I'm scared for what's going to happen to my family. To this extent I'm desperately trying to share what I've learned in life with anyone that will listen.

Charlie Chaplin made a very touching speech once about how the radio should be used for higher ideals and communication as to a similar context did John F. Kennedy about abusing mass communication for the purposes of sensationalism. If the Internet is supposed to have any merit at all, it should be to discuss problems and events in the spirit of finding a solution.

But instead this thing called the Internet has done nothing but create new forms of racism, super conservatism, misogyny and censorship forged on a base of populism. As people such as yourself comment and speak for no other reason than to find 5 minutes of attention or self-empowerment with fleeting sentiments of "cyber-toughness." Albeit in the virtual world, if you're truly a person in his mid 50s, you should know better than to behave in such a manner.

So I come on here as a break in between pills that make me sick and and my work trying to lay a solid foundation for another lawyer for the campaign against Apple computer built sweat shops. A reprieve to share what I've learned in life and to refocus my thoughts through the use of a very needed distraction. I would thank you kindly to not waste any more of my time or to derail a promising conversation for the sake of infantile desires.

 

There's no sales tax on Amazon purchases (there are exceptions) and many other sites on the internet.

 

VOT


If you happen to disagree with any portion of my post, why not just take issue with that rather than waste any more of your precious time attempting to discredit one having the audacity to even slightly disagree with any of your views or question your advice?