Border Collie, Jack, turned and attacked me

I am just in quite a spot, one might say.

I have no idea what to do, altho' I am still in a sort of shock. This is my story:

Today Jack and I come home from his daily walk and everything is fine fine fine. There are 2 ex-neighbors there, in the living room, standing. Fine.
He knows them...he is going on by and his BUTT is toward me since I have released him from his leash.

I already know he is Very Big Issues with a person that falls near him, especially on a leash - namely me. He has briefly bitten and snarled at, (?attacked?) me...and I've been wary each time afterwards, for a time. No Babying! But we'd get past that, so to say...in that I would baby him again.

Today was different than ever before. He had to turn around, in order to attack me. There was all that dayum SHIT in the floor and I tripped - so much so that I fell on a captain's chair, toward it ,somehow - thank God.
Because Jack begins to attack me, as I feel growling, biting at my back and jumping at my the back of my head. The attacks just didn't 'take', through the 4 layers I was wearing up top, and I don't know about my head - my hair is very thick and it was pulled to the nape of my neck, where the hoodie also was.

I'm actually yelling, "Help me, Please....HELP ME". The (extremely bothersome) ex-neighbor used his cane to get Jack back some. I couldn't hardly breathe...I knew there was a hard, hurting rib problem happening and this fucking stupid dog is attacking me and I have now rolled into the big clothes basket at the foot of the chair that had just cracked my rib....I knew that.

As I was working my way up the chairs, I didn't look behind me at them, I was ab out standing, and then....POW - Jack come at me again. I'll give him this - he was NOT messing with my butt and legs - he was going for the gustto- the HEAD. :2thumbsup: Eventually my MOTHER (90+) years, thank you, pulled him off me so I could just find my feet (if that made sense) and close myself off of that room. I looked back at them and saw my mama holding nut-caseJack and he is Almost Standing, Ready to Go!!! sweet bejebus. He AND my mother, with her holding the leash, have been around me once, and I'm just blown away by this whole thing. Has anyone ever experienced like this?

He has slept in the same room as me since Jan.2005, WhaT IN THE HELL?
He is being punished, and in a closed off room since this, with water - and food, of course.

This is just awful. I am subject to FAll AND TRIP again!!! Best not be around Jack, huh? He also will not get in a car - NOT- we know that already.

I am in better shape than a lot of people I know! Yet, I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'll probably fall a-damn-gain. This is awful with Jack. I know he wants to make up, but I'm almost scared to...what a wuss, huh. The fact that he kept on and on bothered me more than him just nipping at me out of fear. There is a difference.

 

Lynn! Wow! How awful!

What if your poor mother should fall around him?

 

Exactly, Aerianne! That is what I've really said here at the house, and considered even more, too. I've even gotten very cautious telling her not to fall, For God's Sake!!! Which we all know isn't going go help anything. :mickey:

Around here we have wet leaves some (from the recent rains)...and you han slip up on those in a heart beat. Godalmighty.

 

I don't know all the history but it sounds to me like he needs to live outdoors or with another family.

An attack like that could kill your mother.

So sad to hear. Hugs!

 

That is what I have been thinking...about him living outside. Nobody else in the world is going to put up with him but us. Mama doesn't want Jack to live outside in the Fenced-in Back-Yard because he might freakin' piss on the damn "liriope" she has out there - which ONLY she gives a shit about.

But thanks, because I can tell her that ANOTHER person I talked to about this said he needed to stay outside.:sunny: I guess that is the worse thing...feeling and knowing that we could just make him stay in the fence; if we repaired some places. As it stands, we'll figure something out - tho' it may take a visit from my brother in California to fix it! gad.

 

these small dogs have short brains, unless it has been corrected before. its not going to snap out of it, because its an out of pattern behavior..

have you ever been down to his level before?, Have you always been tall before him, to correct this. you should find a spot on the floor and lay there show him play, and you need to smack his snout when its nipping, Its the only way its going to know something else is more powerful than his own jaws. it has to be at the moment its nipping, it will not learn it later after the fact. punishing it later on, shunning it will only separate your entities further. You should cuddle it with now.

 

Orison, you really are so sweet.

 

Lynn , it's a bad sign when dogs attack people like this . I think Jack knows you fear him and sees himself as the alpha pack leader . They have a keen sense of fear and will challange your leadership if that's the case . I would bet that Jack is a dominate dog by nature . And many times this behavior will not change . What really alarms me is he waits until you are vulnerable position and goes for head and neck shots . This is not good , my friend . And I agree with Orison , punishing him now after the fact will do nothing .

I had a simular situation with one of my german sheppards . The dog was vicious , a time bomb of furry . And while he feared me and never showed this rage towards me . He did towards others in my house . My wife and daughter bore the brunt of his wrath . I got an emergency call at work on time that my wife had been taken to the hospital . The dog had pushed her through a screen door glass window . Fifteen stitches and surgurey from her arm going through the glass . She , we, forgave him for that big mistake !

The second attack came when the dog had an ear infection and my wife approached him harmlessly to administer his eardrops , he attacked her with such force his bite fractured her arm bone . That's power and anger ! Still she forgave him , even after our vet warned us that this dog was dangerous and needed to be put down . He told us even he was scarred of the dog , and had never seen a dog with such strengh and power .

Attack number three happened when she accidently slammed his tail in the door . She still has those scars today , and each attack got worse . The last he got her down and went for her neck . It was a susstained attack where he keep coming back If my daughter wasn't there , it may have been fatal . We put him down , we had to . Not only was he dangerous to us , but a huge liability to our neighbors . I raised this dog from birth and he was never mistreated , and turned on the people he loved most .

Some dogs are like people , they can't be helped . Only you know your situation . What scares me is suppose it was your mother who fell ? Or suppose your mother wasn't there to help you ? I don't know Lynn , I know how much you love your animals ,and it's hard . But sometimes we need to seperate ourselves from our feelings , if an anamil has become dangerous it's a clear warning sign something must be done . And even leaving him outside by himself may become a liability to the neighborhood . I mean suppose he gets out , or a child falls while riding a bike ?

I would start by finding a good trainer and get their opinion , as well as a vet . Maybe Jack can be helped . Some dogs just have minor issues that can be fixed , and some can't . You need to figure out which one Jack is .

 

At the very least , you may want to get a muzzle and muzzel him when walking . Since you think it's leash related . However how do you know that's the case ? As you had already released him from the leash .

How are your ribs today ? Did you go to a doctor , or at least wrap them in an ace bandage ? If you're still having problems breathing you need to get them looked at , and make sure you didn't punture a lung .

 

Thanks so much for your responses.
Papa Wolf, it isn't as much on the leash as it is the simple act of falling, tripping. In the past when I let him go, and only after I tripped, it was when he got "off".(attack-mode). He needs to be put outside, in the damn fenced-in back yard, when walking time comes.

I'm in pretty good shape, but slipping and falling with him close by are just too great for me to feel comfortable walking with him, anymore.

I'm hate to admit I'm somewhat oddly comforted that I am not the only owner a usual tame "house" dog that has had it turn .

That your wife went through all that is mind-blowing. It's like you feel your child had turned on you....but, really, y'all had no choice - especially with children there, too.

Today, he is around me (with stick) - as if that stick is going to do me much good, though it does feel like a sword in my hand. lol I have little to no interaction with me, and he is good at following my hand signals...which he is staying (for the most part) where I've told him to do - behind a chair.

Dear God, I just hate situations.

 

ps - I'm sort of afraid of him, to be quite honest...and I would just as soon get on the floor and roll around with a snake as to do that with Jack. But if I wasn't such a wuss and/or we had had Jack since he was a pup - he appeared in the fall of 2004 and was about 2 then - I might feel different. Tho' that is a good idea, Orison, if you weren't me.

Plus he is a large/medium size dog - say more German Shepard size. gad. very formidable, tho he is trying his best to get me to love him now.

 

In the farm where I lived, there were dogs that had to obey, for working with the sheep mostly. They must obey 100%
When a dog is shitty against me I kick him in the ass right away and then usually they understand instantly. Some dogs may need a second kick in the ass to get it. No bick deal.

 

I am embarassingly happy to report that he is trying his damnest to get me to pet him, love him, give him a bone etc.

I'm holding out (thus far. ) We are just really going to have to watch every little thing now, it seems.

He is about 10 yrs old and has big knots on both hips that I'm sure will eventually get to him, but is given a baby aspirin or 2 a day for arthritis pain.

I am CERTAIN I am imagining this - but I want to think he is sorry and doesn't understand how everything got to happening like it did.

Are all dog-owner's/animal owners at least partially insane?

 

Yeah..... He seems to see you as the alpha.... but hardly, and be keen to take your place.

I guess I'm a wuss, but I'd get him a shed and keep him outside. Or Find a serious dog person who really knows how to train it out of him safely..... and not by establishing you more firmly, but somehow change his whole understanding of things....

But I guess I'm afraid of dogs, and a wimp. I have chihuahuas, and don't have anything to worry about....... They don't even think that way, you become the center of their universe and they're fiercely loyal and loving, and physically not dangerous.

 

About 5am, I took Jack into the backyard for some early morning business. He saw I was not laying down, and yes - let me know he'd like to go out. I GOT the leash, but never put it on him.
I made sure those gates were closed/locked, came back in and let his ass outside, free to roam - and yes, PISS on that dayum liriope (laryopie), had he wanted to. As it was, I just watched, off and on, and he did business all along the fence edge. In fact, he was the one that wanted to come in.

Now - I've just got to get a 90+ yr old woman to do the same. As long as he isn't walked on a leash and is not in close vicinity when I have gone down, he doesn't run from a distance to get me. Not yet.

I'm totally understanding the appeal of those little dogs as I've gotten older. A little dog and a little snub-nose .38 should do it. :2thumbsup:

 

......



Cheers Glen.

 

Hey, Just a suggestion, know the behavior of Border Collies so well, is go out and buy yourself one of those big squirt bottles, filling it with water, and when he acts up, then give it to him right in the face!

If this fails, then simply add a small amount of white vinegar to the solution!

Trust me, if you let a Border Collie run the show, they will "Run the Show", being the smartest of Dogs, but they really are the sweetest of Hounders once they know their place in the "Pack" and will always cover your back too!

Good Luck!

 

You are so right, Toby about them running the show AND how smart they are. I guess that is one reason I was, in a strange way, hurt more "feelings-wise", since Jack is smart and should have KNOWN that jumping on my ass was the WRONG thing to do. shit!

I feel very "zen" tonight (lol) and think that things happen for a reason...and perhaps something would have happened to us on that road if I'd continued with our road walks, as my/our lives as they had been going.

As it is, I miss our leash walks, but we are getting into a routine of sorts in the backyard.
Basically, we are good - Jack and I...and I will absolutely NOT walk his ass, but let him roam and piss/crap where ever he feels like it in the back yard. I'm not feeble, nor do I have any kind of "falling disease" - at least not that I know of. BUT I do know I am subject to fall from time to time...clumsy, tripping over the air, whatever. So...

Everything is the same with us, but I no longer leash walk him. Thus far I haven't fallen anywhere near him in the house - so far, so good.

My mother, at 93 yrs old, is the MOST STUBBORN woman in the whole wide world and continues to walk him daily on the leash. She said Jack wasn't going to do a thing to HER...and that she would do as she pleased. :mickey:

 

Bless her stubborn heart. I hope that she is right.

 

I used to work for the R.S.P.C.A. and this situation isn't new to me. You are in danger.
Jack is a dog, but you are relating to him in human terms. A mixture of punishment and affection is the worst thing you can do. See the situation through his eyes: he sees yourself, your mum and himself as members of a pack. In a dog pack, there will be a leader and followers (it's all black and white). If he doesn't respect you, he will asume the dominant role. If, on the other hand, you can establish your dominance, he will happily accept a submissive role.
From my reading of the situation, he is a confused boy. I think that he saw the ex-neighbours in HIS house as a threat and really wasn't sure what to do. I also think that you might have done something, probably very subtle, that made him even more anxious and when you fell over he lost it and, like a wolf, he attacked the injured party.
I would recommend that you seek professional help very soon.
I know you are acting with the best intentions and I wish you well.