Border Collie, Jack, turned and attacked me

God Bless America!

You got that right, Aerianne! You just cannot do a damn thing with an old woman...especially when its your mother. and I mean that in the nicest possiblle way. :2thumbsup:

 

Animals have some different thinking. I know it's off the subject, please forgive, but I wanted to tell about some cat behavior.

This was between a female and a male cat that I used to have. The male never wrapped his tail around himself when he sat, and consequently I would sometimes step on it if I didn't see him sitting behind me when I turned from the counter in the kitchen.

He would be hurt and he would yowl!

The female cat, without fail, would come every time this happened and start kicking his butt.

It was horrible. I'd scream at her to stop but the more I screamed the worse she got.

I think his yowling was misinterpreted by her as him yelling at me; and my yelling her name must have cheered her on in whipping his butt.

Poor male cat...not only did he get his tail stepped on but he got his butt kicked on top of it, every time.

 

#1. I am a dog lover
#2. I am a realist

No one has mentioned this but as much as I hate to say it, Jack should be put down. You may not be so lucky next time and we both know there will be a next time. Is it worth the chance to have him attack your mother who may not be able to defend herself.

 

Cattle dogs as pets is always trouble.

 

See, he is a "rescue" dog...as in when he came here in the fall of 04, we kept him and didn't call the pound. I really do sort of understand why anybody wanting him to act like he should would just let him go....or something.

We didn't realize it then, of course, but he WILL NOT GET IN A CAR! seriously. I tried sev eral years ago, even before this strange try to bite-me- while-I'm- down behavior started I've given him his rabies shot the past several years. (Don't know now. )

I do realize we will probably have to do something (have him euthanized), but ya gotta realize we are dealing with that STUBBORN WOMAN too. Maybe he really wouldn't hurt her. I don't know. He has never hurt our cats, but has snapped at one if it got too close when he was eating.

I hope and pray that having the extra people in the house and me falling/tripping, it just made him crazy for a minute. I've been putting him in another room when we (rarely) have company. But, yeah, I can just see his insane ass hurting an animal he is supposed to be herding and helping AND going insane in a car or truck, and the owner opening the door and saying "go for it".

 

This is crazy. I had a border collie growing up, and she was the sweetest, friendliest dog. She would never think to harm a fly. However, she was very neurotic, as border collies tend to be because of their intelligence. Falling must really trigger something in your dog where it reacts out of fear. I doubt he wanted to truly hurt you, but it's hard to say. Border collies do tend to act more out of their natural instinct than some other breeds.

 

Cattle dogs need a job and the state the poor pooch is in right now I'm afraid it's going to need a lot more heavy-handed discipline and training than you are probably capable of giving.
Those breeds are incredibly smart, it probably knows your habits better than you do, and now that it knows its the dominant critter, you have no choice but to get rid of the dog or beat its ass down multiple times, at random, for no reason at all and I mean with extreme ferocity, until that dog sees you as the Alpha.

It seems heartless and cruel but it's what dogs understand, its how they know their place in the pack. Especially cattle and pack dogs. Too bad you couldn't give the dog to someone that had well trained cattle dogs that it could learn from.
whatever you decide, best of luck, and please be careful!

 

Thank you so much for your insightful words...especially in this situation. He has been in the house so long, part of the family, to have him do that scared me...for a bit. I really don't think he'll hurt Mama....and my ass will not leash walk him ever again. She has decided that he didn't know who I was in this situation and with me falling, it upset him. Now, where she got that (shit) is between her and God and Jack, I guess.

Yes, I am amthromorphizing (is that the word giving animals human traits?) by giving him intelligence in his actions, and making the choice that he made, by doing something so stupid toward me AND ...and, just all of this. No, I can't, and won't at this time euthanize him. Besides, you just cannot imagine the STUBBORN WOMAN, in this, especially. See, she has already decided that she knows what happened, and what he was thinking. period.

I am very careful around him, and put him in another room if people are around. He accepts me "Telling him to do something"....but acts very sheepish about it. He accepts me as something...I'm not going to lie and say alpha - maybe that is Mama. He knows that was a damn mistake to turn on me. He stays in the corner a lot. with his back to the room. almost sad.

I really think that his hips are beginning to bother him a lot. I give him some baby aspirin in his food daily. We'll most likely have to get help out here to send him on...cause it would be impossible for us to transport him. One example of really needing to take him to a doctor: He broke his leg in 2007, chasing damn cars...he holed up in the basement. I took him soup/bread..etc etc. His leg supposedly got ok...there weren't any bones sticking out...we were lucky. Taking him anywhere to see about the break was OUT OF THE QUESTION. So, he healed himself, so to say...and came limping out of the room.

Now he sometimes limps on it, but not really much...its the way he gets up and the knots that let me know. Two afternoons, I was in another room and heard him whining as he was moving. The weather has been very strange here - enough to affect bones.

But I have babbed and rambled and appreciate all the thoughts and advice.

Got to add that my son, who hasn't lived here for almost 3 yrs, has recently told me of their "confrontations", you might say, where he told me that Jack would act all different when mama or I wasn't around. He said that he had to let Jack know who was boss. I asked him what he meant, what he did, and he just looked at me...don't know how that worked - but unless you are evil or sent from it - I'm a wimp.
But for a redneck chick fight, or ghost busting. :2thumbsup:

 

And really, I'd want another border collie if (when) Jack crosses over...I've been around some border collies and australian shepards, which are very similar breeds, and never knew of one to act all stupid like Jack.
Hell, in 55 yrs I've NEVER known a dog that would not get in a car without a fight I knew I couldn't win.

 

That dog is in chronic pain from a broken leg and is obviously suffering from some form of post traumatic stress. DO NOT EVEN THINK OF BASHING HIM! That shit will lead to a fearful, cringing dog and a fear-biter. I'll bet that is what has happened to him in the past.
As I previously suggested, get professional help or put him down; stop pissing around.
Sorry if this sounds hard, but he is suffering and you have tough choices to make.
All the best.

 

~gets shotgun~

 

Jack needs a dog whisperer.

 

^^^ This!


Dogs learn pack rules from a pack leader... not from a human beater, that just teaches them fear. A scared dog is not one that can be trusted.

 

Outasite, this dog has been with their family for a while, the leg was broken in 2007, the pain is from arthritus most likely from the leg not being set when it was broken...
I have seen far worse injuries overcome by cattle dogs like that, they are tough fucking dogs. I saw one lose an eye when he decided to get a little to close to a pissed off horse... healed on his own and spent the rest of his days herding cattle with his siblings as if nothing ever happened.
Tough, brilliant fucking dogs.

Though I see what you're saying and I would normally agree with you, these dogs are a special breed, extremely smart, and like sled dogs if they don't have a job they will either become runners, pack up with other dogs or in general look for trouble. Rat mentioned his was neurotic...they all are unless the have a job to do preferably one they are bred for.

I've see these kind of dogs herd tiny kids out of the street, drag them by their pant legs away from water. Amazing shit to us, but the dog was just taking care of the 'herd'

I'm not talking about "bashing" the dog...you treat him as loving as you would normally, but when you are asserting your random acts of dominance (as alphas do), you beat them with a switch of willow or a belt or whip, something that stings like hell and makes a sharp noise.

You're not going to injure the dog, just get his attention and scare the crap out of him so he knows who's in charge. Then you go right back to normal behavior of comforting massage, petting, combined with your normal routine. You don't confine the dog or treat them any differently otherwise. Routine and exercise is what they dig the most.

Good luck again to you Lynn, I feel for both you and the pooch.
hope it all works out