The next time SWuM has their pressure cooker out and ready to roll,,, suggest to them instead of using a Heat sterilization,,, they should perhaps first try using Hydrogen peroxide as a means of decontaminating their medium and work environment in (Or the usual 10% home brewed Bleach spray for the room air and work surfaces,,,) It does just revert to water after all,,, and it kills everything,,, Been on my mind a while and have yet to get to a space to tinker with it (And no, this is not a good space for such things with my Kid here and all his friends. Well, not the kind I'd want to grow at least)
H2o2 (and even iso alcohol) will not kill wetspot endospores unless you couple it with a tyndallization regiment which takes days to do properly and is not 100% effective. Pressurized steam is the best method hands down.
But those can live through a pressure cooker too if they're present or so it seems? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2680726
OR, maybe Pre-treat by soaking in "mild" bleach solution followed by a thorough flushing with distilled water and a final application of Peroxide?
Theres this guy I know (not me of course) who just uses rubbing alcohol to wipe down his hands/spore syringe/gloves when innoculating. If by ''medium'' you mean literally putting peroxide in your cakes, I have never heard of it and would definetly advise against that. I stongly doubt that peroxide would revert to pure water, and the bleach solution would most likely make an environment where no spores of any kind will grow there ever. This guy I know doesnt even use a pressure cooker either - just a plain old pot with something so that the jars are not directly on the bottom, and he lets the water boil for an hour and a half.
Well dont doubt H202 becoming H20 when it looses an "o" as it Oxidizes something I was suggesting using a mild Chlorine solution to be flushed away with distilled water as a "final Solution" but maybe thats just the German in me? Or using filtered Tap water Treated with Chlorine, mild KOH would Kill it all and balance pH eventually.
or your could just not fuck around with a million steps with bleach/h2o2 and flushing with distilled water which might work and just pressure sterilize your spawn. Don't know what all of you have against pressure cookers.
It is possible to boil the crap out of pf jars and get fairly good results but they have to be small jars.
I have done it with half pint jars. In all honestly I did end up getting contams somewhere during my second flush so I don't know that it can be attributed to that or something else during the fruiting phase...
is = to saying "soak substrate in 8% NaOCl & H2O 2:25 for X hours and flush with distilled water X# of times" Nature relies on a natural form of "chemical composting" not pressure cookers. IF you distill your own water making a 20+ gallon "closed loop" flush systems (Closed in the "only opened in the glovebox" sense.) Short of some tubing, 10/20 gallons of "flush" per 1 gallon pickle jar or so, (Right? no heat, no size limit on the jar you can fit,,, or ziplock, or whatever else you might want to knock up,,,) some 1/4" valves for flush control,,, OH, 2, 1/4" holes in your glovebox to run the glass tube through. And if it works, just chuck the glovebox as now your "50 gallon rubbermaid Mason jar" is part of a closed and nearly self supportive system. Like this only not just using building blocks with a dash of common sense added to taste.
Although I have seen the H2O2 TEK used, http://www.mycomasters.com/, there are still issues with what's being discussed. Using a PC and a little bit of heat, either electric or gas, still seems to be far more environmentally friendly that loading up on bleach. H2O2 does not get rid of mold or bacteria spores where the heat will kill them. Bleach will, but then we're back to harmful chemicals. And bleach cannot be used on grains or subs, at least I would never do it. The same holds true for the endospores of grains. Unless you're staying with BRF, there is little reason to go to chemicals. Yes, you can achieve success, but what percentage? How many failures make up for not being more sterile with a PC? I think that going the H2O2 and bleach route is more work than it's worth, when a couple of hours in a PC will do the job very effectively.
1) Nature is very inefficient and full of competition hence why mushrooms have to produce 100s of millions of spores in order to ensure some of them will land in a suitable environment. 2) What is your problem with pressure cookers? I mean your process sounds expensive (a reverse osmosis water distiller is not cheap) complicated, messy and full of hurdles like how are you going to drain excess water out of your substrate in a closed loop system while not allowing contamination in? Fungi can only thrive in a narrow moisture range... to much water and you get bacteria and imperfect fungi..... too little and the fungi will stall before it fully colonizes. Witl adhesion and cohesion between all those small particles you will never get the moisture content right without a surfactant. Anyways go try it and let us know how it works out for you but it sounds like a absolute nightmare.
Yup, and yet they can manage with just a hundred. Dont have one. Whats yours with limiting your cakes to 1 pint? Really? Did I ever mention anything to do with Osmosis? Not so many really, but if you think of any others, ask away. $25 H.V.A.C Vacuum pump to vaporize h2o prior to knocking. Atmospheric pressure is awfull hard to argue with, even surface cohesion. But like I said earlier, given my current environmental circumstances I cant do this here,,, well, I dont want to as it would sort of be acknowledging to myself I planned to be here much longer than I'm hoping to be. I'll draw a more detailed design later w. parts numbers for the similarly curious. Wont need more than a drill, a wrench and maybe a crimp tool. Well certainly not the 3% by volume crap.
not to mention the fact that you will be leaching nutrients from your substrate. As I said your process if fucked up and won't work.... but I wish you the best.
lol well thanks for the 2 cents in any event, But if you learn To drill round holes and not Oval ones, your seals will be much less prone to allowing contaminants to find a way into your system. Theres also a wonderful item known as Blue RTV if that becomes a real issue for you. And you really want to use industry standards as a yardstick of potential? The desire is to test a solid Theory, To find another angle of approach other than the same Tried, True and Tired methods. It's called Innovation and there are thankfully some who dare try despite The Poo flingers of the World.
A spirit of innovation is generally the result of a selfish temper and confined views. People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors. Edmund Burke
Enjoy the Sig. I've spent about 20 years cross referencing these two books with more modern texts and have had hands on in virtually all areas short of sputtering my own mirrors at various positions where I eventually tire of being as productive as 3 typical Luddites. Publication dates on the titles, 1872 & 1938 respectively. Wagners is on Google but not Procedures. I may scan procedures if Lindsays gives me the ok, I'll keep you posted if your interest in the skills of your Ancestors is in the least bit sincere.
Not favoring it or thinking of using it any stronger than 1:10 I know some Dentists who might disagree, but as far as grain "core" goes,,, let it soak a while OR use pre-cooked rice which I'd think may absorb the water faster possibly. The main thought is to keep the substrate environmentally isolated. Be able to do it all right in your glove box, capacity of 1 run limited to available materials. Short of the lid, I see a Vacuum port, a fluid inlet and a drain allowing for Hypo injection into the water inlet for knocking. AND some sort of Hepa fae port OR direct injection from a tank or Oxygen condenser unit as used by emphysema patients & such. From the time your dry substrate is added, it wont be fully opened till ready for transplanting or casing. H20 and 20% by volume H2O2 can meet in a mixer valve prior to "jar" entry or separately. Not meaning it to be faster really, more thinking bulk terms for legal varieties and as growers of Psychedelics can be more Visionary at times I usually approach alt-groups first,,, but there are of course no absolutes. And if it comes down to Chlorine, I'll worry when the Pool smells of it more than my tap water,,, just sayin'. But THANK YOU for the tek. Good to know I'm not alone in the thought. :cheers2:
