Why do the spiritual people tell me I need to be free from permanence?

All the spiritual people tell me this, the Dalai Lama, Buddha, Krishnamurti. It doesn't mean I think everything is permanent just because I want enough money for a house and kids and maybe a retirement fund. Can't I want to have those things and still believe that they are fleeting and meaningless?

 

If everyone subscribed to a relaxed state of mind nothing would ever get done.

 

This 'getting things done' mantra hasn't really led to much besides overpopulation, environmental destruction, wars etc has it? I'm surprised anyone still uses it as The Goal of their life.

 

having an impermanent house for the family might be best , like
one made of sticks and bark and moss from the forest . this would
mean it wouldn't crush your bones in an earthquake . it has harmony
with change .

i say rebuilding a world trade center tower of steel and concrete is meaningless , but then ,
somebody else says it means an enduring strength of nationalistic spirit .

aha ! ...spirit . spirit is the expertise of spiritual teachers ?

 

Yes you can. They are telling you to be free from permanence, and you say you are. So, what's the problem?

On the other hand, I'm sure the Dalai Lama and others would tell you that there is a price to be paid for wanting things. It's up to you to decide if the price is fair or not.

 

The problem is that I'm not sure what they are talking about. What do they mean by permanent? They assume that someone scrambling after profits in corporate life is a sign of me wanting permanence.

I'm not sure I wouldn't be miserable if I knew everything is fleeting. I can sort of understand permanent happiness - wanting the good feeling when you eat chocolate or get a massage. I'm not sure it's the best way to describe it.

 

Things here aren't permament. One day, the body will die, and all we've aquired in life will have no further use for us.
However, it doesn't seem unreasonable to seek a niche for oneself where one can live happily and comfortably. It's the nature of human life.

Things like a nice home, enough money etc may be meaningless once we're dead, but whilst we're here they do seem to have meaning. Meaning itself is perhaps not something fixed at all times. What has meaning now, may not have meaning tomorrow.
Also, it's hard to focus on spirituality if one is constantly having to think of survival issues like where's the next meal coming from, how can I pay the rent etc.
It's one thing for monastic types to talk about renouncing the world, quite another for people who have to live in society (such as it is).

Some teachers, such as Sri Ramakrishna, speak of an inner detachment whereby one can live in the world, have a family, aquire wealth and so on without being controlled by that, or loosing sight of the spirit. One example used is that of the mud fish, who lives in the muddy river bed, but the mud never sticks to it.

 

wanting to have access to and use of things you can be creative with isn't a bad thing in and of itself. how else can you be useful to anyone? even yourself?

now this is just what i personally believe, because i've seen it and felt it and experienced it myself, is that if you want something, and the more you want it, even if its just wanting to keep whatever you already have, is a handle by which you can be manipulated. now of course not everything you might be manipulated by intends harm, or anything like that. but if you've ever felt trapped, not able to do something you'd really like to, or go somewhere, or change something about who or what you are, well what's trapping you. whats keeping you locked down when the door is open and there's no one standing there telling you not to go out and go somewhere, explore, learn. attachments. emotional attachment to the idea of having to claim to own something. every time you say "mine mine mine" what your really saying without knowing it, is that whatever you are calling "mine mine mine" OWNS YOU.

that's all. not any big thing otherwise. we're all different, and for some this is no thing at all, and for some it is everything. so, if you want to avoid being manipulated, well, not putting out handles you can be manipulated by, is kind of a logical place to start.

 

There is nothing magical about the word "permanent". It just has its ordinary dictionary meaning: lasting forever.

Someone scrambling after profits, love, happiness, whatever, usually is seeking permanence. The thought is, "Once I get _____, then I will be happy and can stop scrambling." Because of the implied belief that the object of their desire and therefore their happiness will then be permanent.

You said yourself:

The quest for happiness assumes that stuff isn't fleeting. You probably will be miserable when you find out it is fleeting. Everyone is. It is the normal condition of existence.

Since nothing is permanent, happiness isn't permanent, and the search for it is therefore futile. A better strategy is to accept contentment.

 

I am going to say something entirely different on the issue of permanence and it's appearance.

Temperature changes are caused by uneven heating. The storms in the atmosphere reflect the storms in our consciousness just as the storms in our consciousness reflect the storms in the atmosphere. Things appear to change because there is no permanence of self identity, no permanent I. No solid vision of what is desired. However such an enduring thing can be developed but cannot be externally apprehended.

It is developed by consistent effort toward a desired aim. As if you were a crucible filled with separate elements, each their own and each vying for ascendency. Effort in a single direction causes friction as these different voices want to interrupt and be heard. The friction in turn causes the different voices to become alloyed, melded into a new and enduring substance.

 

I think its meant more as a state of mind, an awareness that any possessions you accumulate simply aren't the most important thing in the long run.

I always apply the concept of impermanence more to my emotional well-being than anything else. I've never thought of it in terms of possessions or lack thereof. I think our emotions can chain us more than our possessions. I know if I buy something it won't last, I think everyone realizes that on some level, but sometimes when I'm stuck in a rut of depression its hard to realize that I will feel better eventually. And sometimes when happy times are coming to an end its hard to accept the end.

Impermanence is important in regards to knowing that any emotional state we encounter shall pass.

 

Because they are fucking morons. Permanence is exactly what you are looking for. No joke.

 

Stay in the present reality. Don't drown yourself in the vision of the future or past. If you want a house so be it, but stick to what your goals are in this present time. Don't make things permanent because nothing is ever permanent. Adapt, go with the flow, follow your intuition.

 

What he seeks is eternal life; let him seek it.

 

Buddhas walk up to Jesus and say "Hi."

Jesus says, "Where ya going so fast?"

The Buddhas say in unison, "I was just coming to meet you!"

 

The journey is the destination

 

The destination is the destination.

 

When the tide goes out, it goes out. When it comes in, it comes in.

 

Interesting topic. It is really hard to live in our world with so many things to believe in, which divides us in a bad way. At least we have the freedom to choose what do we want to believe in. I do not want to offend no one, but from what I have seen, these spiritual fellows, are really cheap because, they are using really desperate people who lost their faith in them selfs, to advertise their religion, or philosophy. Those people who could not find the right balance in their life.

What do I think?There is no bigger treasure in life than having the desire to provide for your loved ones. The opportunity is given.You know why? Because you are still alive. I think this is the meaning of life. I want to die in peace when my time comes."I did everything for them"After you die you can not really do anything for them.