How is Judism, Christianity , Islam brought together under Abraham?

right, this is getting funnier now

 

Sura al baqara -

And who turns away from the religion of Ibrâhim (Abraham) (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism) except him who befools himself? Truly, We chose him in this world and verily, in the Hereafter he will be among the righteous. (130) When his Lord said to him, "Submit (i.e. be a Muslim)!" He said, "I have submitted myself (as a Muslim) to the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists)." (131) And this (submission to Allâh, Islâm) was enjoined by Ibrâhim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya'qûb (Jacob), (saying), "O my sons! Allâh has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islâm (as Muslims - Islâmic Monotheism)." (132) Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya'qûb (Jacob)? When he said unto his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We shall worship your Ilâh [] (God - Allâh), the Ilâh (God) of your fathers, Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâq (Isaac), One Ilâh (God), and to Him we submit (in Islâm)." (133) That was a nation who has passed away. They shall receive the reward of what they earned and you of what you earn. And you will not be asked of what they used to do (134) And they say, "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be guided." Say (to them, O Muhammad Peace be upon him ), "Nay, (We follow) only the religion of Ibrâhim (Abraham), Hanifa [Islâmic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allâh (Alone)], and he was not of Al-Mushrikûn (those who worshipped others along with Allâh - see V.2:105)." [] (135) Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allâh and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâq (Isaac), Ya'qûb (Jacob), and to Al-Asbât [the offspring twelve sons of Ya'qûb (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Mûsa (Moses) and Isâ (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islâm)." (136)

 

Stoney, you actually proved my point... Muslims lump Ishmael and Jesus in with the rest of the prophets... which Jews and Christians do not.

There is nothing in the old testament where Jacob tells his son's to worship Allah and follow Islam. this is the Muslim version of the story, since they believe the promise was given to Ishmael.

Look also at all the emphasis of worshiping Allah alone, where as Christians believe Jesus is God and we worship him as well.

Maybe you'll get your point across better if you explain what it is you believe (I am assuming since it says your from dubai your a muslim), instead of insulting our posts and quoting a portion of the quron that has no other context to it.

 

After some research, lets clarify a few points. Here is my source as well:

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-2.htm

1) Stoney is correct in saying that Muslims see Jesus as the Messiah. However, the other above points are also correct, in the fact that we are using a slightly different definition of Messiah.

Muslims use the term as the person God sent to save the world, and while Christians also use this term, it has also become synonymous (perhaps incorrectly) with the idea that Jesus is God. Here is where the difference lies: Muslims believe that Jesus is just the Messiah, and born of a virgin Mary, to carry God's message to the world.

Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah, born of a virgin Mary, but also that Jesus was God come in the flesh. This means that Jesus is worshiped as part of the trinity where as the Quoran talks directly against the trinity:

Indeed, they disbelieve who say, “God is the third of three (in a trinity),” when there is no god but one God. If they desist not from what they say, truly, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. Would they not rather repent to God and ask His forgiveness? For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a messenger... (Quran, 5:73-75)

2) This still leaves the issue of Ishmael Abrahams oldest son. In Islam he is included in the list of prophets since he is the child of Abraham. In Judaism and Christianity he is not.

The confusion that needs to be clarified in the above statements is this: it appears (correct me if I have this wrong Stoney) that Muslims believe all the direct children of Abraham (Ishmael, Issac, Jacob, and his twelve sons) are either prophets or direct receivers of God's correct and proper teachings.

Christians do not believe this. We believe that only Issac and through him Jacob and his twelve sons are the inheritors of the correct teachings of Abraham, and more importantly the blessing that God gave to Abraham. Christians and Jews leave Ishmael in the Old Testament having been sent away from Abraham, and left with a much smaller blessing than Issac.

Does this look correct from your understanding Stoney?

 

Uhhmmm, wouldn't that make them Christians?

 

No, because Muslims do not believe that:
Jesus was God
Jesus died on the Cross
Came to save humanity though his life, death, and Resurrection
the writings of the New Testament and Tanakh corrupted the prohpets' original messages
etc...

 

Roorshag, it is obviously not the facts you posted that annoy people but the way you put it. I saw the pedophile cameljockey comment at least one time literally in another thread. I hope you are just trying to be funny or have a weird circumcision fascination otherwise you really seem like a miserable cnutson to me too.

 

do jews believe in Jesus at all?

it is not a 'muslim' version but the version, and Jacob telling his sons was worshipping and submitting to the oneness of God (and submission=islam). no where is there any promises or claims of anything given to Ishmael versus Isaac (this is not a Cain/Abel part 2) if you read the verse quoted ..clearly shows no distinction between them

do all christians worship Jesus as God?

perhaps it'd be best then for you to educate yourself by reading the quran. it'd be wrong of you to be going by what i or any other muslim believes if you truly want to understand and not be basing your understanding of islam according to my or anyone else's version. i don't get my understanding of christianity from reading posts

 

how does Messiah that means anointed in the original language somehow become son of God, who needs to be worshipped? do you worship every Messiah? because prior to Jesus there were a few more 'Messiahs' including David, Cyrus the great

Ishmael and Isaac were both prophets, each to a different peoples. Ishamel to the Arabs and Isaac to the people of Canaan

see we'll never be able to get past anything unless the obsession with the stories stops, somehow humans want to make sense of everything. which is why, jews went on to giving extensions to the 'stories' thereby corrupting the original revelation until Jesus is sent to the Israelites, to "confirm that was sent earlier" (no new teaching) - but again something didn't stack up and all other authors (some even a 100 years after Jesus) were allowed to write (what may have happened) and made it a part of the original book and somehow a new religion gets created which takes the oneness of God and splits into three

in islam, there are EXAMPLES of things ..which essentially is a guide to the way of life, somethings you can understand and some you cannot - and we submit to God (like Muhammed, Jesus, Moses, Jacob, Abraham, Noah .....)

 

and Jesus believing in the oneness of God and submitting to God makes him a muslim [as it does for all other prophets, including Abraham]

 

the only thing is stoney said he was God when he said " if you see me you see the father, for i and he are one ". Jesus knew who he was but went by the trinity in talking and acting to be an example as well show his other side by not just saying i'm God. I don't know anything about muslem belief so maybe under classification he was but my point is he was not a believer in God but was God and told them in a certain way so he only taught what he meant for it to be in the begginning.

 

I'm sorry, but the fact is that circumcision (as opposed to just killing) is abraham's claim to fame-it's what he did, it's why he matters at all to any religion.

As for muhammad, while I don't know about camels, maybe he sucked at riding camels, it's a fact, substantiated by the quran, that he was a pedophile and married/fucked small children. It's also a fact that he was ignorant and illiterate, the quran was written by his christian wife, who, I believe, also read the bible to him/told him christian and jewish stories, which is where a lot of his stuff came from, obviously.

You can add violent to that list of things muhammad was, if you want. Islam spread under the sword, and he preached violence against those who would not see things his way, like jews (early quran is nice to them because he thought they would convert, because he did not claim jesus to be the messiah, which was their beef with christianity-but when they shunned him, he said kill em' all in later sermons).

 

Like I said it wasn't the facts but the way you put it.

 

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. - Gospel of Matthew

 

subjective! and besides with all the unknown authors ..it is hard to say what Jesus said and what others said Jesus said, including those who after a 100 years said Jesus said and made it a part of the bible

 

Ok Stoney, I tried to not get into it that badly, since the original poster asked a comparison questions. Why are you wanting to debate which religion has it right? It is the Muslim VERSION of the story because while you believe the Quran to be true, I and many others do not. We have our own versions of the story, and we can sit here all day to debate which is real or not, but we will probably just go round and round in circles. And quiet frankly we'd really be not much better than RooRShack, except maybe politer.

See I for one have read a lot of the Quron, and when you pointed out some misunderstandings I tried to show where wording and different understandings of a words definition can lead to them. I than tried to correct those, but instead of addressing that you decide to make us looks like idiots.

Well I for one have studied this all my life, and not just Christianity but comparative religion. And I find one book written by one man, to not be as reliable as four different accounts of the story (that do not contradict each other no matter what anyone says) by people who wrote letters to people who also knew what the man had done. And these letters were not changed, or written hundreds of years after the fact, as we have evidence of nearly every verse of the new testament on manuscripts and fragments that date to within 20 years of when Christ died. (For the best resource on this read Evidence that demands a Verdict, and the Case for Christ... that or simple look up the archeological facts on Google.) My real question is why are you quoting something Stoney you see as unreliable?

Once again, your welcome to your version and your belief, I just will respectfully disagree. I will concede one point I have learned: I was not aware that Muslim's did not have anything in their story about God's promises to Abraham for a son. The old testaments does have this story, so obviously in my above posts, that version is how the Jews and Christians see it. In the Muslim religion, they see Abraham as a prophet of God. Either way Abraham is important to all three religions in different ways.

 

Also here is an article on a Muslim website, that talks about the importance of the distinction in the Abraham story of Ishmael and Issac. In this case, instead of focusing on the issue of a promise from God, it is focused on the issue of which son was suppose to be sacrificed. Either way, does this not show that the issue of Abraham's son's is important to Muslims as well as Jews and Christians?

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/MusTrad/sacrifice.html

 

I was pretty light about them..... I don't think that taking it totally seriously is necessary.

These are stories about nasty people and nasty gods, and they have ruined many millions of lives-so I see no reason to be so serious that they ruin mine too-they don't deserve that seriousness. I said the exact truth, just because I phrased it in a slightly comedic way does not make it any less meaningful.

I thought it was funny-but if you don't, simply read over the comedy, and it's still a truthful summation of the various stories and their relationships.

 

subjective is the words of the quran, islam faith prophets, and abraham if you gonna look at it that way because all those books and authors of the words and who said what in them don't mean it true either but you believe what you want so i'll believe what i want but there is one thing its funny that the bible seems to be coming up truth after so many years and the catholic church sure didn't put up monuments, gravesites, memorials, and even beliefs founded on the men that talked about the lord jesus so long ago. i've said my peace and in the end if your right and i'm wrong so be it but if i'm right and your wrong you'l burn

 

You might think it's funny, but it really just shows that your angry or bitter about something. Whatever it is, it is obvious that you have no desire to have a serious conversation so why bother?

That being said, I have seen the results of religious abuse first hand, and understand the anger it can cause. my recommendation to you is spend some time learning the difference between what is simply "religion" and what The Bible and God mean to people who have moved beyond the religion part.

God wants people to have a relationship with him, and it is obvious from your statements that you do not have a clue what God is like and have never met anyone who truly knows what he's like ( or at least you never listened to them). If you think it's all about obeying rules, and being sinless, and all of that, than you are mistaken, and should spend some time trying to see what it is all really about. I'd love to help, but with the anger you seem to have towards it, it would be pretty hard.