Why did God need to sacrifice Jesus to forgive sin?

I know what we are talking about but money or life, neither was a loss. Yes both are now gone but both gained something of value in return.

What difference would being alive or not at the time make? The ransom was paid, whether you accept it or not, is up to you.

Yes, God has been called our Grandfather.

 

It is pointless to the extent that it has nothing to do with the subject and everything to do with trying to discredit me. Not going to happen. Slander is only effective if you believe it or you think someone else might believe it.

For what is it, the fiftieth time, I did not insult your mother. I used the terms I used because it was what I was talking about, regardless of what you meant. I said, the exact same weight, not, the exact same object, and that by definition, it was possible.

How about answering my question about why jesus contradicted you in regards to an eye for an eye? Why do you waste time talking about style and ignoring content?

 

I don't mean to interrupt, but I think what we have here is a clash of two opposing ideas concerning spirituality. One idea is tied to the physical to the extent that spirituality has become little more than a bargaining session and agreement with a supreme being to negotiate the saving of one's physical ass.

The other idea has evolved beyond the notion of bargains and contracts. Neither has a snowball's chance in hell of changing the other. That's all I'll say.

EDIT: It is two completely different languages.

EDIT II: It is like putting new wine into an old wineskin.

And that's all I'll say . . . maybe.

 

Jesus used his life to teach us how to be perfect even as our father in heaven is perfect. Correcting sin is the job of education not sacrifice. Redemption is brought about through mercy. The truth shall set us free.

 

OWB:

Forget the money for a minute. How can one gain something if one is gone? You are confused.

What does God want with the murder of an innocent man?

Do try and explain it to me OWB, in something other than what really only amounts to saying "someone's got to die". If I didn't think you were not in possession of your right mind, I'd consider your whole line of thought sinister in the extreme.

 

And with that, I bow out of this discussion for the time being. I'll check back later and see if cooler heads have prevailed. :seeya:

 

The sacrifice idea is an extension of a capitalist mindset.

 

Storch:

But you do mean to interrupt. Call it evolution. I like you, whoever you are. You seem to know what it is to laugh out loud. :-D

 

You can't interrupt but you can add. The reason I engage in this debate is not to convince the other, but to air all ideas for the greater consumption.

 

Actually, you are right to do so. New wine in his old wineskin will eventually cause it to leak, and thus allow room for something new to be added which will end the stagnation.

 

That's what I'm praying for, anyway.

 

Okay just one more time.

Jesus died giving up his prefect human life to buy back what was lost. After three days, of being dead, Jesus was resurrected back to heaven to live as a spirit being and at that time he used the value of his perfect human life to buy back what was lost.

God does not want the murder of an innocent man but that does not change the fact that Jesus was able to provide the way back for mankind.

I have explained over and over and over again but you want some other answer but there is no other answer. If you owe a million dollars, no one in his right mind is going to accept juju beans as payment. In this case what is owed is a perfect human life and it can either go unpaid or a perfect human life can be paid, Jesus was loving enough to do that for us, it is as simple as that.

If that's not good enough for you, ask someone else.
That's all folks. :seeya:

 

Dejavu,

It is true that I know what is is to laugh out loud. I also know what it is to cry out loud. There is a season. It's all good.

And yeah, I did mean to interrupt. I did.

 

OWB:

So if the balance has been totalled, the price paid, the register emptied and everything found to be in order, why didn't jesus, after a brief hiatus in the torpor of corpsitude drag the rest of the body of humans up after him into the heavens? Was the thought of having to pull out his wallet once more in the presence of the almighty a distraction that got in the way of his teaching us all flight by example?

 

Sure you can. It is only because I care

 

I did not mean it to sound as though God in actuality makes himself unable under any power to see our choices, however what I meant is that in practice God limits his power so that he does not foreknow our choices and decisions. We agree on this, I think, just expressed differently.

I think there are some scriptural references that support the view that God can and does see our non-choices when presented with a situation that did not even happen:
Jeremiah 23:21 “I did not send the prophets,
yet they ran;
I did not speak to them,
yet they prophesied.
(22)But if they had stood in my council,
then they would have proclaimed my words to my people,
and they would have turned them from their evil way,
and from the evil of their deeds.

In the "But..." clause, God says that if he did something (that is, take the initiative to send prophets etc), they would have stood in his council (a free choice) and turned from evil (also their choice).

 

Not really sure what you are asking here: but if you are asking why did not, at the Resurrection of Christ, the rest of the righteous dead ascend bodily into Heaven, then the answer (from a Catholic perspective) is that the glorification of the righteous dead bodily will happen at the General Judgement (which follows the Particular Judgement at death). The saints and those in purgatory are spiritually being glorified and tempered, but we await the bodily glorification at the end of all things.

 

Ukr-Cdn:

Sounds complicated. The separate judgements must be there as a safety precaution to make sure no unrighteous souls gain entry? I hope the saints don't mind too much their penance in purgatory, or auto-tuning, or whatever it is. Are spirit bodies supposed to be naked? Do they wear spirit clothes? Do people make love in heaven? Do they fly about or is it a sit-down affair?

 

God originally created Mankind to live forever on the paradise Earth and that has not changed thus most of mankind will remain on Earth after it has returned to paradise conditions and will never go to heaven.

 

OWB:

And so he wants to pick out some of the finer specimens to come up and hang with him, yes? By return to paradise do you mean scroll back and begin again with adam and eve ( since you said god has nothing now to do with the world since satan usurped it? ) Or do you mean a new eden will spring up of its own accord where the majoritative remainder of humanity stays knowing now not to eat from any trees in case they're tempting?