Am I not supposed to be in Scouting anymore?

Hey there everybody! I have been in scouting since I was 5 years old. I don't attend regularly anymore, just when people from the Venturer/Rover (boy scouts for big boys) plan a camping trip, or if we're needed for fund raisers and such... I came out years ago, and the scouters didn't seem to notice or they didn't seem to care (either one). I was wondering if I'm technically allowed to attend or not, or If I'm seen as some sort of threat? Not like we hang out with the younger scouts anyways, nor do we really have a leader (we are our own administration at this point, just attached onto our particular scouting sect). I was wondering from an official standpoint if homosexuals are exiled from scouting, or if it's similar to the "believing in god" thing that they've changed down to just "every scout should have some sort of beliefs or faith"? Any info would be much appreciated, I don't want to get anybody or myself in trouble for attending anymore. Thanks.

 

Sorry to rain on your parade. You ARE 21, aren't you? This is a good time to grow a pair, and move on. Nothing against the scouts or anyone else... but you want to have a life, don't you?

KD

 

Technically, they can kick you out, it's not something that I'd parade around if I was you.

In my experience, boy scouts is riddled with the things that they hate the most..... there's lots of atheist gay pot smoking scouts, right up to the top brass. Sane people like having fun in the outdoors just as much as the christian right.....

As far as things that don't involve close trusted friends, keep your head down and don't talk about your sexuality...... maybe if you got in trouble, you could say that you "choose" to not be gay

But yeah, people actually having problems with it is rare, there's as many gay scouts as anywhere else in society. The difference between scouting sucking and not is if your individual troop or patrol does it's stuff for it's members and having good experiences, or if it's run by rule-obsessed guys who are still bitter that the army made them mop floors, when they wanted to order people around. So they make do by ordering kids to mop floors. Don't have rainbows on everything or kiss men in front of scouting officials, and you should be pretty much okay.

KD66, what are you even talking about? If you've had any experience with any scouting programs, they're obviously poor ones....

 

That was uncalled for hate and self incrimination. You didn't read the post and probably don't have a clue what you're talking about anyway?

But OP, there is no reason at all to be any different or change a thing. You've been there long enough to know and it must work in your favor - I can't see why it should alienate you now or you, having run the course would need it to alienate your attachement which is real, whereas all the stuff in the press has to seem like mostly laughable baloney to actual scouts. It does to me.
I haven't seen anything external that caused me to deny or diminish what was on the interior or have the value of passing notice compared to my time in scouts. That was something real, whereas about 90% of the blah and hoopla actual scouts wouldn't stoop to towards each other in the press is mostly air of voices with no real basis to speak from. I mean compared to one of us -
So no way man. I wouldn't change, doubt or worry about a thing. If the dumb crap in the media got ya down even for a second, I hope you'll look back on your time and laugh it off immediately. "What are they talking about???" or as we might have said in our second class days "what a bunch of fags haha" If I'm one of us and weird, you certainly are right? (Gay is still above weird on the ass kickin schedule I believe (heh)

Appreciate ya!

 

ditto.

 

I was a scout for a time I won't say which kind lol but I was fun to be in a group and stuff. so if that's something you enjoy then continue to do it no one is going to make a big deal about as long as ur nit like having gay sex in front of people. If they did find out and it was a problem I'm sure it would be handled discreetly. so if I were u I'd keep going to scouts and havin fun come what may. Also I don't believe that everyone in scouts is anti gay the organization as a whole has come out against gays but if ur scout leader or what ever doesn't give a shit then it's not a problem. Just keep it to urself no matter what information is power and people love to have power over other people so the less people know the better cause they will use this information against you given the need or the oportunity.

 

Thoise who think you "outgrow" it have no idea what the deal really is and so while they can't be believed, it does seem that they can't be entirely blamed. But really, it's clear they don't really understand what it is they are mocking or hating on.

 

So, guys, tells what is it really that we are "hating" or "mocking" here?

I have absolutely no hatred to the Boy Scouts. I also see no reason to mock them either.

OK, you learn how to tie a few knots, how to put up a tent, spend some time in a camp. You make friends. You enjoy the big outdoors with the possibly like-minded people. There is nothing wrong here.

And, you grow up. You realize that the organization that you belong to does not approve of your sexual orientation. You realize that they actually discriminate against people like you based upon their sexual orientation. You also realize that they are an essentially private club, and that they may exercise their right of association (with whom they find fit).

You shrug with your shoulders, and move on. Sure, it was nice and good while it lasted. Now, you have matured into a grown up individual, and you are focusing on you personal happiness, career and fulfilled social and sexual life. The Boy Scouts are not precisely the place to go to for achieving those goals despite the fact that they may have been good both to you and for you in the past. The things have changed. So, you move on. You face new things and new challenges. You manage or you fail. You call the shots.

KD

 

Or you remember that the attitudes of a large orginization don't really matter, the tone of scouts is heavily set by your local orginizations and the people running them. It's an important program to keep going and to keep pushing towards accepting people, and if they ever really make an issue you can say meh, but if you can be a positive force in the organization then it's great to do so, there's no reason to give up something you enjoy because a few semi-political individuals say they hate fags to get the top job.

With your shallow assumptions about scouts you'd be totally right, but those assumptions are wrong.

 

Point taken. So, what are the deep assumptions about the scouts?

Sure, you may want to stay within and work towards changing the attitude of the top brass. No doubt, a very laudable task. What are you chances of being successful? How many lives do you have? What's in it for you?

Now, if someone cared to educate me on the very deep meaning of the scouts, I'd be very happy to change my opinion.

KD

 

You simply seem to assume that it's all tieing knots n whatnot. Nothing against tieing knots, or anything, but....

It strongly depends on your local troop. Again, if the leaders suck, it will suck. Good troops are great, he doesn't want to leave, NOT because he wants to spend the rest of his life practicing the clovis hitch, but because he has good friends in scouting and they use it to do fun things.

Scouting is a tool, it's up to the people to use it right. So it can totally suck, but it can also be great fun with friends. You don't grow up scouting when they make you tie a knot a billion times in a row, it happens accidentally with the situations that scouting puts you in.

And just because you might do some growing up doesn't mean it's time to leave if you still have fun. It's time to leave when, for whatever reason, scouting is not helping you do what you want to do, wether that's campaign for change in scouts, go camping, introduce younger people to some of the fun stuff scouts do, etc.

I say this while I'm NOT involved in boyscouts, been a few years, though I do plan on being involved again at some point, hopefully

 

well then, if your local 'troop' doesn't seem to care then why bother with what is 'technically' correct. their technically correct is obviously flawed anyway. there are 2 basic options for the OP, either he wants to be in the scouting that much as to say 'screw your stupid rules i'm still gonna do what i want to do' and he doesn't mind being associated with a movement (~) that essentially disapproves of who he is, or he gives it up because other people's opinion means that much. either way. he shouldn't let other people set the tone and just dictate his life. but maybe that's an unscoutlike thing to do. i don't know. i never was one.

 

Thanks for taking your time to enlighten me (and possibly few other people) on the benefits of being a boy scout.

Again, if this something the OP or you or anyone else wants to do - more power to you guys. I'd hate to see anyone stand in your way.

I am simply trying to say that things change in life as we mature. The definition of having fun that applies to a kid aged 5 is one thing. Hopefully, his understanding of fun with 21 is somewhat different. Sure, the boy scouts may still be his preferred environment for having fun. But the chances are that you also may want to move on a bit, too.

Few kids aged 5 are gay. Being 21 puts your sexuality somewhere among your top priorities. Boy Scouts are NOT approving of gays among them. One or the other local chapter may be more tolerant than the other. But if the shit hits the proverbial fan, the chances are that they are going to open the rule book, and hit you with it, too.

It is one thing to be out among your friends and family. It is however, a very different thing to get into the local news as being expelled because you are gay. First off, even those who may otherwise be sympathetic to you may now be likely to agree that you knowingly broke the rules. Your future employers may also see this as far less than desirable. You may find yourself in a trouble on several fronts.

Even people who are unbiased may suddenly start to see you as having predatory tendencies since you continued to get involved with the minors... This does not go on to say that anyone did anything wrong. But you broke the rules in the first place, and then it would be upon you to prove it to everybody that you did not do anything wrong. Usually, a tedious, expensive and self-damaging effort.

I have spent a very long time working for major global corporations. Some of my work had to do with HR and training. If you stated that you were still scouting with 21, some of the prime employers would stay neutral. Some would put a big question mark next to the info. Not because scouting is wrong. But because they are wondering what marketable skills have you been acquiring during your late teens and early 20's?

There is this big, greedy world out there. If you want to be able to put some food on the kitchen table these days you really want to think, and you want to think very hard how you define your "fun" at the age of 21?

Scouting may be putting you into situations that help you grow up, and evolve. From a practical point of view, you really may want to put more on you CV than scouting into the mid-20's.

And you sure, do not want to deal with the consequences if the whole gay thing goes wrong.

KD

 

and learn how to create, implement, organize, and manage a business or similar venture. They learn by doing such things as teamwork and goal oriented team building (yeah sounds fucking cliche, but true).
I have seen it first hand with kids who were in Girl scouts starting in fourth grade and thanks to the things learned in scouting they were organizing school and community events, very active in school politics, etc...

Hate to admit it, but scouting has made a big positive lifelong impact on the kids I have seen stick with it.

They many avenues actually open to scouts, especially as they get older, is rather broad.

Boy is that wrong! :rofl:

If one is persistent, goal oriented and motivated enough to earn their Eagle Scout award (or Gold Award in Girl Scouts) which can't be earned until at least 17 years old, it actually carries almost as much weight and prestige as getting a Bachelors Degree for many employers and also counts very favorably for college applications.

I doubt most of the people reading this thread could/would be able to achieve it.

It's a lot more than knots and camping.

 

As far of the practical value of the eagle scout award, I know people who have avoided traffic tickets or more serious legal trouble by allowing their eagle scout card to be seen while taking out their license, I've seen quite a few (BSA, but still) checks cashed using an eagle scout card but no legal identification, seen jobs gotten on the basis of being a scout, etc. It's instant allies just about anywhere, you are seen as having proved yourself just a bit more, there is no reason not to be proud of it and bring it up as far as employers go, and still being in scouts after completing that is not a negative thing by any means.

21 is the cutoff point for "youth" scouting in ventures, while in most of BSA it's 18. They do more challenging stuff.

Once you're no longer "youth" sticking around to become an organizer and help keep the organization not only alive, but relevant and fun, and getting kids to stick with it, is generally considered a responsible, laudable choice.

 

<<i never was one.>>

I think that is why you are good a moral support on a status quo, popular music, "what julie newmar ABSOLUTELY would do level, but we develop pretty deep and lifelong friendships whether we see each other or not, our faults included.
It's just that it is a group and so if one person has issues hurting them more than they are getting love or help with they tend to cry out louder and lash out worse or demand more.
In scouts, you're more likely to find a friend or more that can see ya hurt and identify, will reach out to you and even though it is not perfect, it is still a fraternity and still fraternal i.e. not just a brotherhood by name but really pretty brotherly and it's still like regular society, except when you say to your brother "hey four eyes bought ya any tits yet?" there is much laughter and you expect to get chased up a tree - in fact all week you have lived for it because you know you can only get away with it twice a year or it ain't fun or funny, it's fake and mean. Like regular society not brothers.
Now you have the pleasure of being challenged to sleep with one eye open and grinning in wonder at when 'ol four eyes is gonna get his revenge and with what color kool-aid.
Boyscouts actually have no concept or idea of what all this stupid bullshit is about because we do not live isolated in a sad ass inhuman world where people actually think their being a big mouth attention seeking fag is MORE important than every other guy in the place - That's what outsiders and losers want to vetch and bitch about which means NOTHING to them but their opinion? is worth ruining fraternal society for thousands of other guys all over the world and frankly the whole thing offends me because why don't these people go somewhere that makes them happy and leave those guys alone? Some loser spewing asshole wants us all to be miserable and try to bust our trust and bonds? For what?!? We will NEVER let you do that, and a troop of boys will always be happier than those people even if it's the biggest goonie troop at the jamboree!
It seems kinda mean, jealous and nobody wants to make "someone special" out of anybody were the whole purpose is "all worthy and to each other"
(oh 200 dykes just exploded! Lol! maybe even half the mean queens with their "look at me! Nyaa!" picket signs and "I'm angry and MAKING you deal with it!" T-shirts haha Jesus!
I can go anywhere in the world and meet any other scout from any other troop, (whether he was the meathead, model, moron, dickhead, nice guy, rowdy, four eyes, detective, firebug, jew, delinquent, lump, sneak, fag or weirdo) and there are certain things and good ones that we will automatically recognize and reciprocate. That is actually a really awesome gift which we are all vested with and can count on. Active or not, forever.
We are supposed to be courteous and kind which is why I have cut SO MUCH out of this post to leave just a smidgen of the sample back that we have been enduring shovels of.
These people should go somewhere they can be happy with a code that is awesome and EARN YOUR FRIENDS or whatever but we're busy. I'd rather swallow a clovis hitch with grilled snipe and poison ivy than be around one of those haters. Gimmee ticks and the lolly monster anyday compared to that! Heh

 

lol. i don't pretend to be a good moral support at anything. and i'm too young to get the julie newmar metaphor. but it still stands that a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do in order to live his life the way he wants. no one else will live it for him. so he has to know what he wants. boy scouts, religious beliefs and societal standards aside.

 

Indeed. My viewpoint slanted by my own perspective. But I would not think a scout would give it up easy, so probably read that into OP's first post.