why did God allow Lucifer to interact with man?

there is no lucifer. and no one knows diddly what god did or didn't.

 

God, Satan, Adam, Eve, the serpent, Garden of Eden all remind me of the greek mythology stories from high school. Its such a stretch to put much serious thought let alone live and believe in these stories. Then again, the guilt of questioning and not believing for some one raised on religion. argggg! lol

 

Thank you for responding to my questions. I'm glad you showed up. I respect the opinions of others who have posted in this thread but I was getting a sort of "none of it is true so why bother thinking about it?" type of answers. Fair enough answers but I don't see what the big deal is in asking questions about the biblical story even if one doesn't believe in it.

I will have to mulll over some of your answers. Thank you for pointing out that he was not cast out of heaven yet. That helps.

 

I think Greek mythology is interesting. The are a few similarities there with Roman and even Norse mythology though not as much. I get what you are saying and that it should be looked at as nonsense. Maybe it is. Maybe all religions are. The issue I have is that regardless of how confident others may be that there are no gods is that I know for a fact that there is a holy, intelligent, compassionate "SOMETHING" out there because I've spoken with it. I never bothered to ask it/him/her what religion is right or wrong but I know at the very least that there is something bigger than humanity out there. After that I don't care how smug or confident an army of "there is no such thing as god" folks can be. I know better.

I'm not some christian religious nut trying to convert people. In fact I'm a practicing witch more than anything else. I wear a big green robe and sit in a circle of canldes and stones in my yard at night to raise my energy and apply it to whatever magic I may be up to at the time. Most christians would have the urge to spit on me if they knew I was a witch.

Anyway I am very casual about other religions. I don't have any beef with the beliefs of other philosophies. Also I don't claim that God belongs to any religion or that any religion has there facts straight. I just don't bother dismissing them all since I have learned that a spiritual world absolutely exists. Yes it does!

 

Your vision of God makes him seem not very nice and too human to be God. I respect what you have said though.

Yep the pipe is real. My high priest was trained in African magic and somehow threw his african teacher made some native american connections and he has access to some pretty cool stuff that most white people can't get close to.

 

faith comes from hearing, not seeing. in the wilderness all the jews watched moses part the red sea, manifest manna from heaven, and make water gush out of a rock -- and yet they still didn't believe him. an obvious case where seeing does not = believeing.

a wicked and perverse generation will seek for signs and they will find none.

faith comes from two things: a witness, and from hearing.

--

i've never heard anything about luscifer not falling until job. the way i learned satan fell from paradise many many years before man was even created. if you look in jude 1:9 you will see that satan had already fallen before the time of moses.

from what i understand is that while God could have easily destroyed luscifer when he was cast out of paradise, he didn't. holding true to many of the principles of not resisting evil that are explained in the new testament. he allowed evil to run it's course instead of resisting and and destroying it. instead he created humans to destroy luscifer. in this age we are given a choice between good and evil, the word of god and our own understanding, god and satan. the point is that given the choice humans would still choose god, despite satan tempting them and deceiving them in every possible way throughout the course of history. at which point once evil has finally run it's course then luscifer will be exposed for truly being evil, and bound for a 1000 years and thrown into the lake of fire taking all of his angels an all those under his influence with him.

-edited

it is all leading up to a point where the light can bare witness of the darkness.

it's not like god ever wanted to send any humans to the lake of fire. but if you are interacting with and attached to a spirit that belongs to luscifer or one of his angels then you are going to get dragged down too. like holding onto a sinking ship.

it says that jesus was prepared to be a propitiation for our sins from the foundations of the earth, and the sons of god were determined before the foundations of the earth. if jesus was already destined to die for our sins before adam and eve even fell then that must mean that God was planning on the fall of man, thus needing a savior. he was planning on the fall of man so that evil could run it's course.

so why are humans subjected to so much evil? because evil has to run it's course.

**some interesting notes

rev 20:2-3

He laid hold of that dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the tousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.






so it seems here that the role of satan is deception. also interesting that after satan is actually completely bound he is then going to be released for a little while to cause havoc before he is finally destroyed. strange huh.

rev 20: 7

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

although if you are challenging the justice of the christian god then you might consider that a few years of satan messing with us isn't too bad compared to eternity in paradise.

 

So since we guys didn't have anything to do with this - because we weren't even around when that went down - god decided to put this all on us.

We are nothing but some experiment made to maybe - or maybe not - correct this little mistake.

I'm certainly not one of the I - didn't - sign - up - for - this - guys but this is really too much.

No offense, but sometimes I really don't understand how you can sell all this stuff to a sane person.

 

if all you had to say was that what i just said sounds retarded why did u even bother posting at all.

-edited

 

To my knowledge nobody tells me to worship a bomb to save my soul.

 

but it is an example of how little control we have over things that occurred in the past, and how much they affect us. hell we have over 2000 years of civilised human history that has shaped our world today. how much control over that do we have? 0.

 

So now you're getting all upset? And edit the posts after I already responded to them?

If I want to say that something sounds retarded I will most certainly do so. If I choose to express myself in different manner it means that I want to make a point without bullying or trolling or flaming.

 

i was editing my posts, then you would post shortly afterwards. probably a case of you hitting post reply and me editing before you posted.

whatever, if you think what i posted sounds silly, then why did god allow satan to interact with man?

 

I don't have the slightest clue.

Between old and new testament there is so much stuff that is contradictory and so much open to interpretation that you could push it any which way you want.

I don't know if god exists or not .... I guess I will find out some day. But religion .... no way, man.

 

it's not like i go to church or something.

i'd rather not be involved with most religious institutions.

but as for, on a personal level, having faith from my past experiences. sure i can do that.

it says "you will know them by their fruits"

well the fruit of most religious institutions is pretty bad.

 

What fruit specifically would that be?

 

I agree there is something out there. What it is I dont know? I apoligise if I came across disrespectful. Sometimes I will write the first thing on my mind not thinking about how it will be accepted or others views. That gets me in trouble a lot. lol
I like reading and commenting on religious and political topics. I find I have the same type of questions and views as a lot of people here.
Thats fascinating you've spoke with God. Can you tell more? I too have experienced the power of God. I was addicted to alchole for since highschool. I could rarely go a day or two without. Drank myself to sleep most times. I quit with help from a higher spiritual power. The desire to drink left me and never returned. Miracle. Thats probably why I'm even more interested in 'God' and relegions and anti-religions. I try to keep a open mind as I've been on bothe sides of the fence. I'm still rather agnostic.
I was raised in church and tried to be a relgious person. Nothing ever happened. It just seemed like me and my fellow churchgowers kept a 'salvation' insurance policy by going to Sunday service. And then as I read the Bible critically, trying to really understand, it seemed so absurd and myth like. It says God made man in his image. So I imagine God as being like super human.

I saw the Bible as a cultural binder. A relgious rulebook. A set of conventions and rules to keep people like minded which makes them somewhat predictable and 'safer'. Like "We can trust him, he's cool, he's one of us". We dont like people or things that are to different, unknown or mysterious.
So, I'd say Christianity in the last 2000 years has been a source of phylosophy and identification for people of western civilization.
On a personal level Christianity teaching is useful during times of stress and big life and death events. We can be changed during stressful and high anxiety times. Then its like God is called upon most and we are more vulnerable and is most influential. We need comfort when fearful of the unknown and a future of uncertanty. The bible and Christian teaching has a lot of answers when we are in spiritual need.
And I dont think Ive heard or know anyone certain in their athieism. I would be surprized to hear someone confident and with out doubt about there being no God or higher power. I would never say the Bible is nonsense. More mythlike. I think Christianity is the best we have going. Dont know anything else. Dont know much about Pagenism or Bhudism. I guess I question and criticize religions because I want to push the envelope. Get us out of our comfort zone and critically think. And maybe I'll learn something too. As man advances we need to advance our spiritual teachings.
I like peace pipes. Saw my first one at a Vision Quest councel. It was a 3 piece. Given by a chief to a old football player who was helping kids from troubled environements using principles of nature and Native American beliefs. I've got a reproduction. I'll try to post a pic. Forgive spelling. Cant download ispell check. Firewalled.

 

God did not allow Lucifer to interact with man. He had no choice in the matter.

 

Perhaps one does need more than just the bible to accept it as truth:

Apparently, God's elect are dependent on God's mercy also.

 

people going to church once a week and then going home and living a life totally contradictary to the message of the gospel for the rest of the week.

or people, who's lives are affected in a negative way by the deception in christianity. like people who allow christianity into their lives but then are hearing some distorted message from some messed up preacher.

when christians act all messed up and judgemental even though jesus said not to judge.

when churches become money oriented.

when people somehow justify their hate-filled lives filled with non-unity by going to church and thinking they are forgiven and then continuing in the same pattern.

basically i don't see christianity improving the quality of people's lives. mostly i see it wrecking and deceiving them. but the message of the bible is supposed to improve the quality of your life.

the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. these aren't things that i see the any of the main branches of the christian religion produce.

 

You are welcome, I enjoy discussing these subjects and if you have questions about my answers feel free to ask away. I'll try to answer.