Conclusive evidence that God does not exist

It's almost impossible to truly not have an ego. Go watch the holy mountain or something. What you've said doesn't prove anything. You researched som psychedelic 'scientists' on the Internet and you believe everything you read. Good for you.

 

He was born in 1894, but "The Doors of Perception" is a book from the 1950's. And he died in 1963 the day Kennedy was shot.

By whom has mysticism been debunked? By stern atheists who have only one fixed understanding on how reality works?

What about transpersonal psychology?

You think you know shit, but you don't. Heck, even I don't know much. I'm always learning and open towards looking at both sides before reaching a conclusion. While you just make up excuses saying you're too good for that.

Ego, buddy.

And 2012 research on psychedelics only seems to scientifically back up what Huxley and many others initially theorized.

You're a product of the modern world, a Western society that always seems to be on extreme fronts. You have the ultra-stern religious establishment. Then you have the people who are balls deep in the complete opposite direction.

How does spirituality stand in the way of science, and vice versa? The shamans have successfully implemented both. From a scientific perspective, their knowledge of the plant kingdom is very advanced. And there was no surprise when certain natives were exposed to the knowledge of cells and microorganisms through the microscope, for it was something they already knew. Their knowledge of the cosmos is modern, too.

Shamanism doesn't stand in the way of Christianity, either, in case you're going to ask me about that. Mexican and Brazilian natives have successfully combined both, actually. (With psilocybin and ayahuasca use as sacraments, respectively.) I'm interested in participating in the UDV or Santo Daime churches one day.

In addition to the Internet, I also took a class on psychedelics at my local college. MAPS is a huge force, and my teacher is very in the know when it comes to the psychedelic community. Plus, I've read material offline and watched plenty of films.

And I don't believe everything i read. That's the weakest defense skeptics always bring up when it comes to spiritual matters. My conclusions come from YEARS of trying to figure out the truth about why we're here, and the nature of existence.

I believe there's a difference between ego and individuality. And I know it's impossible to truly let go of ego, but you definitely need to shed a lot of it.

I'm not telling you all this as a way to make myself sound superior, not at all. I'm just a fellow human being that cares and is trying to help you out with some truth. My gain is not in being right, but in others discovering the truths I've discovered.

 

Sorry, but you are not helping when saying that you won't tell some stuff because we won't understand.

What is spirituality for you?

 

does that mean he's special because he died the day a president was assassinated? no.

stern atheists? the reason most people are atheists is because there is absolutely no evidence that god exists. mysticism never had anything to debunk in the first place. it's just subjective experience, which can't be proof of anything.

one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. it's about studying the transcendence of spirituality. you want a better worldview, study physics or biology. want to know how the mind works, study psychology. this 'field' has been critisized so much, it's not even worth talking about.

i do know shit. you don't know shit. you know absolutely nothing about the mind, absolutely nothing about the brain, and absolutely nothing about physics or cosmology. so to actually think your opinion matters on any subject on psychedelics, religion, or any topic that has to due with the brain, mind, or anything pertaining to fact, it doesnt. I never made excuses that i'm 'too good for that'. I simply said you have no clue on what you're talking about and, your internet research doesn't matter.

you wouldn't be struggling to try and win an argument if you didn't give a fuck about ego buddy.

You don't even know how a theory becomes valid. a theory becomes valid when it has been tested hundreds of times and every time it's exact.

this is where you completely lost me. usually when people lose arguments they start saying some crazy shit, but damn. if this wasn't the most hypocritical thing i've read. first, you're a christian, the biggest western religion known to man; you believe that the creator of the universe waited about 13,699,800,000 years to create humans, and then created a demi-god in the middle of the desert that came from a virgin, which died on a cross for your sins. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/almah . Atheism isn't a religious establishment, it's a religious view. you barely make sense half the time.

Spirituality is subjective experience. It's not scientific, it's feelings that feel good. that's it. shamans are just like magicians, they seem realistic, but it's really illusory, and nothing unique. they don't have advanced knowledge on plants, just plants they live by. they don't have advanced knowledge on the cosmos, without a huge telescope(like the one edwin hubble first built), you literally can't see outside of the galaxy, nor can you properly map the stars because of that fact. you think you know what you're talking about, all you're doing is regurgitating shit you read on the internet or saw on history channel.

I could care less what church you go to to praise an imaginary being. ha, you thought you could tap into heaven while on psychedelics via the holy spirit. you're a funny guy.

what'd you do? take a class on botany at you're local community college? unless your teacher is a neurologist, neuroscientist, or cognitive scientist, his opinion on how he "thinks" psychedelics affect the brain don't actually matter. reading things without actual knowledge on how the brain works is just memory, and doesn't actually mean anything.

spiritual experiences are subjective, that won't tell you why or how we're here. that's not even a valid argument. all the psychedelics in the world won't help you there. learn biology, or cosmology, or physics.

yeah, i have a huge ego because i like winning arguments against dumb people who have no clue what they're talking about. yay me

wow buddy, you sound like you're trying to convince yourself a lot more than you're trying to convince me. nice one.

 

*grabs popcorn*
:lurk5:

Brainden might be huge dick, but he has a point.

 

I liked the part where he said "my gain is not in being right, but in others discovering the truth." Haha, he thought he was right.

 

I actually did go into a lot of detail with my last post.

That's a good question, though. But it's not an easy answer. I guess it involves connecting with the higher truth that is normally outside regular human consciousness, and it concerns the soul. I've always felt drawn towards seeking out the truth about why we're here and all that, and it has to do with finding purpose. Figuring out what's what, and trying to enlighten others towards what I've found to be true. It's about being linked to the eternity mindset, and not the temporary human mindset we have in this world. Why should I have to re-learn everything when I die, when I can start that process now, you know? I don't want to waste my time in this life on temporary things that won't mean anything when I die.

I'm not even going to bother responding to Braindim. Sounds like he still can't get over his parents forcing him to go to church when he was younger. And/or he suffered one too many a bad trip. Some people can be just as stubbornly brainwashed from a religious sense as they can be from a worldview sense. Pretty much lost cause.

Funny thing is I never sensed that I was losing my argument. If anything, I thought I was winning. But hey, in the end I know I'm right anyway. Though once again, it's not about winning, it's about trying to enlighten others.

There's many in the field of psychedelic research who would disagree with him, scientists and others with the highest degrees obtainable. I think it's pretty silly to claim to know everything about how psychedelics work, when it's a field that's fairly infantile, and the latest research is only coming out now. People were fairly surprised to find out that psilocybin mushrooms actually shut down parts of the brain. I remember that article came out in January, because it was right around the time after my own trip. It is pretty much a fact now that psychedelics work by disrupting the serotonin receptors responsible for filtering our senses. But of course, there's still a lot more information yet to be discovered.

Admittedly, a lot of researchers won't agree about the reality of the spiritual aspects, but they are still aware that patients suffering from PTSD, end-of-life anxiety and similar traumas report their experiences as such, and are cured afterwards.

But many like Ram Dass, Michael Harner, James Fadiman and others would argue the spiritual aspects as reality. Their worldviews were shattered when it came to how the system understood matters such as psychology, psychiatry, psychotherapy, philosophy and the like. And contrary to popular belief, the native shamans know a lot more than we do on many matters. They certainly aren't primitive in their thinking, even though their appearance may seem like that to the Western eye.

But yeah, I think that's all I really have to say. You might as well save your popcorn for another time, unless Brainden wants to start talking to himself.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xxXO00hzoI"]The Fool On The Hill (Take 4) // Anthology 2 // Disc 2 // Track 17 (Stereo) - YouTube

 

The sad thing about this is you're 100% certain that you're going to live after you die, which in itself, 'afterlife' is a paradoxical word. You're certain you know the purpose, and the purpose is the only life we know to be real is just a game, and the real life starts when you die. Ridiculous, I'm not even going to go on about what's wrong with that statement.

You're a complete idiot, I grew up in a scientific atheist environment. You grew up being brainwashed that there's an omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent being that exists and created life. You believe a demigod was born from a virgin and died for your 'sins'. You actually have the audacity to say something so foolish. btw, i've never had a bad trip, what a dumb rebuttal.

you're not even enlightened yourself buddy. you couldn't win an argument against me if your life depended on it. you lost this argument a long time ago.

i never claimed to know how every psychedelic affects the brain, i claimed to know why it makes you feel 'spiritual'. which is simply perturbing the brain and nervous system. it's a drug buddy, you think it's like some divine chemical that makes you perceive reality in an utterly different way.

Admittedly, a lot of researchers won't agree about the reality of the spiritual aspects, but they are still aware that patients suffering from PTSD, end-of-life anxiety and similar traumas report their experiences as such, and are cured afterwards.

you can't learn any of those subjects by doing psychedelics, do argue that would be futile, and imbecilic. you might learn 'philosophy' but, philosophy literally means a subjective view on how to live. so.... no, you come up short once again.

I'd love for you to admit you completely lost this argument.

 

Yo, FlyingFly, can I have some of that popcorn? :lurk5:

And THAT'S the problem. You don't question your atheism. You think you're just as immune?:sultan:

You seriously think I haven't questioned my beliefs? Come on, all I've been doing lately is questioning everything. Through questioning, I've found truth. There are aspects of "traditional" Christianity that I don't agree with anymore. But I still know Christ is real. Yet words pale in comparison to life experiences, so there's no point in me trying to convince you. I've said all there is for me to say to you. Peace.

 

i grew up knowing the facts about reality, that's a problem? If there was any evidence at all about a god coming to earth and telling us, I'd question what i believe.

you're not going to convince me some guy named jesus died for my sins. it will never happen. you should question your beliefs, there is absolutely no evidence anybody in your religion ever existed. absolutely none. it's called the old "testament" and new "testament." learn something.

 

If it were true Jesus died for my sins, I'd say he over-reacted.

 

You see, from my point of view soul is a brain.
I don't know what you are reffering to as higher truth. Do you mean god, or truth?

'outside regular human consciousness'
To anyone looking at it from my point of view it sounds ridiculous, but I think what you mean is 'understanding and knowing more than regular human, accepting facts and/or information, while others don't even allow the possibility of them to exist'

Do you speak about your purpose of life or a greater purpose?
How can you be sure that it is truth, while you can't prove it in any way?
I guess it is where believing comes into,
but for me the idea of believing in something that has no valid confirmation is flawed, therefore I won't believe in something that I can't observe/experience/prove.

What exactly is eternity mindset?

It seems that you are looking forward to nicer scenario, not necesserly the true one. Truth isn't nice most of the times.

What do you want to achieve after death?
I guess you want to connect to the greater mind.
But how do you know what is after death?
Why do you bother connecting while you are alive when you can't be sure that you will connect after death and maybe you have just wasted your lifetime for nothing.

Being united with everything seems like a nice scenario, but being rotten and eaten by insects while your brain simply switches off and you stop existing, is more plausible one.

I understand your unwillingness to keep up that conversation, but as I said he has a point in some places.

Being dick doesn't automaticaly mean you are not right or not intelligent enough.

true

It comes down to understanding what spirituality is and as I don't, I'll still say that all of this has scientific explanation. Even if spirituality is involved, it can be explained scientifically.

They do know, but they are using different words to describe same things.
They may call ilness 'demons', etc.
I think they are not completly aware of how does this stuff works, but as long as their knowledge finds practical addaptation, no one really cares.
They learn on their errors and give knowledge from generation to generation.

As I said I understand that rude responses make you not want to keep up the conversation, but I think we should continue, as we got that far, and it is interesting.

 

^This.

^That.
@psychedelicpiper
You can't say that what he wrote here isn't true.

I'd say he made too many stupid choices as for 'the greater being'

 

THAT is where you're wrong, and THAT is where you're naive. If my only evidence towards Christ was the Bible, then I wouldn't believe in Him either. Just because the media doesn't report it, doesn't mean there aren't huge revivals going on in other countries. There are many people who have experienced otherwise unexplainable miracles. And I've met people who have dealt with the supernatural.

Illness has been mistaken for 'demons' many times, but that doesn't negate the fact that demonic possessions are real. Maybe if you had experienced it for yourself like I have, then you'd know. And it's not just mind tricks. Trust me, I know the difference between the mind and true possession. There have been many times where I've been completely mad in my head, but it still wasn't possession. It's COMPLETELY different.

What's the point? I'm not going to convince him anyway. You both only live by your 5 senses, and that's all fine and dandy. But science doesn't negate spirituality, and spirituality doesn't negate science. Science actually says prayer is healthy.

And the drugs are only catalysts. I don't see why psychedelics couldn't provide legitimate spiritual experiences, especially after reading the nature of how they work.

Debates are great and all, but I'm not here to provide entertainment. At this point, I'm wasting my time. I pray one day you'll open your minds. But if not even psychedelics will do that for you, then I don't know what will. Perhaps a miracle from God, but even He won't do shit if you're just going to test Him.

We live in a world separated from God, FYI. That's why a lot of people don't see stuff happen. But when it does, it's real. Plus we live in a dead culture, and the majority of Christianity we have to go by is Catholicism and Orthodox crap. aka They're judgmental and corrupt, and God wants NO part in that.

The system has built itself upon faux Christianity. This has both the effects of placing people into submission, as well as making people reject Christianity altogether. Either way, the system wins. It's called manipulation. Keeps both sides happy, while killing the true reality of God.

I know you guys think I'm a nut, so I'm definitely going to try and make this my last post. Of course, I'm sure I'll see a reply, just because you seem desperate to have the last say. But I have no more to add, other than rewording what I've already said. Or going into detail about something you don't agree with anyway. If you want entertainment, use Google.

 

This is so stinkin funny I just might flash it around in my sig for a while.

According to some Jesus quotes in the Bible, God wants to keep it dark, make himself hard to find, and make believers look like crazy dweebs. Cuz if you start to head down that path, it starts to peel back your ego layers. It's a hard road, and lots don't make it far. But when the ego gives up the ghost, the light is no longer blocked and it shines through clear and bright from inside.

So in essence, all the bullshit works together to reveal the true reality of God in each individual.

It takes longer for some than for others, of course. Sometimes lifetimes.

I started being a crazy dweeb about 13 years ago or so. I'm just lately finally starting to see a glimmer of the good that's coming as a result.

 

so , the evidence shall not conclude ? then it need not
be sought . it is to live indeterminately , and accordingly
free will is your powerful gift to others . you can cause a
determinist to experience free will . (it also prevents child
abuse)

 

As somebody once asked me, "Are you a man, or a machine?"

 

both