What do you consider is the most important proof that g-d doesn't exist, or that what you see is what you get? But it has to be PROVEN, don't say things like evolution which are disputed (even if you believe it's proven, if there's a large enough debate then leave it out) I was thinking that nothing major has happened. Like, we suck. Look at what we do to the world. No miracles, no restriction. Nothing has happened which would make us see the error of our ways. My proof of this- we haven't changed. If I was g-d I woulda fired someone by now. But nope. Nothing. I think this is arguably the biggest proof of nothing else being out there.
It completly depends on your definition of god. For instance, Your "proof" is based on a human time perspective. Surley, in all history there has been some improvement? Most of humanity has recanted slavery- a major change, and, as far as I can tell, a miracle, (albeit a long, slow one), considering the cults of ignorance that still exist among us. Perhaps any possible god is concerned with humanity as a 4 deminsional whole, and not the life of the individual as orthodox christians seem to believe?
It is proven to me, after years of me rationalizing away the many paranormal events as 'one offs', anecdotal evidence, or just kinda cool. After a certain number, maybe 50 or so, I finally said 'OK, I hear ya.' I have always believed in magic, now I believe in Spirit, whatever that is. dont ask me, I dont know, as ozzy says. I want to make it clear, just cuz i have been convinced does not mean i think anyone else should be. Atheism is just as valid, real, and true as my views. We can all be right, yet different, since we are all different. This, to me, is also proven. How can I judge your views? I am not you, never lived your life, and never will. I cant. Sure seems that a lot of folk have no trouble telling me I am wrong about that, and I have to see it their way or else. Not gonna do it. Never. Give it up folks.
It is very difficult to prove a negative. Is it up to an atheist to "prove" that god doesn't exist? I don't ask a theist to prove that god exists. For my part, I prefer to remain sceptical until there arrives some proof of existence, something to base a belief on that is more than a lively imagination.
Too many bad things happen in this world for god to exist. If he existed he would make them stop, wouldn't he? And just how has evolution been disproved? Just because it's a theory does not mean its false.
Are we talking specifically about the christian god here? I'll just assume we are. My "proof" (or the reason why I dont believe in it) is because of it's contradicting and nonsensecal nature. I can look back on human history and see how and why this belief developed, and after understanding that I can't possibly believe in god. We have enough hindsight to see that these religions are just part of sociological evolution, and not much more. We don't need to continue to believe in myths now that we have the means of discovering information about ourselves and our universe. But if anything it isn't up to people to prove a god does not exist, those that believe in god have the burden of proof. That is if anyone is asking for proof at all. The christian religion relies strictly on faith in it's message, because it cannot prove itself.
I know my definition of god exists and as I know it, I can't be arsed trying to prove it to others. I'll leave them to make up their own minds. God is love, that is, part of god is love. God is made up of everything that works between two entities, outside those two entities. I am me. My wife is Lyndsey. Our love is part of god. But obviously god is bigger than that. All of peoples' emotions towards each other make up god, positive and negative. I don't believe god has a consciousness or a single personality but he? she? it? is alive. I think everyone can admit that this definition of god exists (unless they have never felt an emotion towards someone else in their life) though they may not agree with the definition.
I agree, that's why I put "proof" in quotations. Anything that we are calling proof in this case is really just evidence. Not that I think that it is impossible for some sort of god to exist. I enjoy the thought of an afterlife, and mystical beings or siprits. I just am not able to draw any conculsions one way or the other. I guess my post was misleading, it sounded like I don't think any sort of god or devine beings exists at all, but I wasn't trying to say that. It is the christian form of god that I definitely don't think exists at all...(I was just working from the assumption that the christian god is what the original poster was talking about because of how she referred to him. Not all religions use the word "god" to describe their higher beings)
Thank you for that clarification, and I don't blame you for being logical, rational, and using critical thinking skills. I do too, and if I had not seen a load of weird things up close, I would be a very skeptical agnostic myself. I love your posts. Keep it up BG13
I don't believe it is provable. As many religious say, to prove absolutely that no god exists we would have to search part of the universe for a lack of evidence. However, since they can't prove that a god exists, I simply hold this as evidence that my faith is stronger then theirs.
I didn't say it had been disproven, I want people to leave out theories which haven't clearly been accepted by most people else there will just be a huge fight over whether or not the theory is true or not. Mati/Uber_penguin/etc, I started this thread because I thought that for most people theres one big thing which sticks in their minds when someone asks why they don't believe (or why they do believe), and when people are thinking about things sometimes it takes a certain piece of evidence for them to decide one way or another. I was just wondering what people believe is the most important piece of evidence when they look at the existence/nonexistence of a g-d. It doesn't have to be something which others will read and say "Wow, I believe that too now because of that evidence", but something personal to you which proved it in your mind.
the definition of god is debated. the definition of the christian god is debated. the definition of the methodist christian god is debated. see where i'm going here? since hardly anyone agrees on what god is, i can't really think of "evidence" of existence or nonexistence. the problem with looking at religion from this standpoint is that it disregards what religion is truly about, and that is faith.
That is probably why Shinto has no scriptures, it stops people from being able to criticize each other for their particular method of adherence. without texts to interpret, no faithful face the wrath of the fanatical literists, so prevalent in some other faiths. I like the concept that God is incomprehensible, undefinable, and unknowable. The Buddha is the source of this concept and I like it. If God is beyond our minds to comprehend, then we ought to quit wasting our time trying to, which is what Buddha suggested. He suggested that instead of trying to understand something far beyond our minds capabilities, we should just spend our time helping others. that sounds to me like great advice.
Why are you trying to prove the impossible? Bleh. Asking someone to come up with evidence disproving something ... eh ... I can't remember the entire lecture, but I remember my Physics teacher asking us all to prove that a green, Italian god with 6 arms who can run at lightspeed doesn't exist. Most of the class thought he was being goofy, but he was serious. So, he asked us to prove it, and told us he was standing out in the parking lot. So some of us got up and sure enough, there was no green, Italian god with 6 arms out there. But then, he can run at lightspeed, so our teacher said he just ran somewhere else to avoid being seen. And this went on for quite some time until the teacher made his point: That it is fundamentally impossible to disprove the existance of something that is omnipotent, omniscient, or otherwise capable of doing anything and existing on a higher plateau then us. So ... what is the point of this thread? Seriously ...
I think this was started in hopes some of us might share personal experiences that convinced us of God's existence. I have seen so much paranormal stuff it is silly, yet nothing to prove there is a God. The folks who have told me that they have are tired of being roasted for saying so, and thus I fear this thread is doomed. The best way to find out if a theory is solid to try to disprove it.
GAH. I've already explained the point of this thread. Nothing which would prove it to other people, but something which proved it/confirmed it/made you happy with your view FOR YOU. It's subjective. The point is that I feel it's really great to try and understand other's viewpoints and empathise with them. By sharing something which made us surer of our view others may then think about this something, and perhaps better appreciate not only other's viewpoints, but the fact that we CAN'T prove existence or non-existence; it's just another way of looking at our different views and trying to appreciate them. If someone thinks "Hey yeah, that's a pretty good point, I can see why they feel that way but I still feel differently" to someone else's proof, then I see that as one of the best things that could happen. A greater appreciation. But few really seem to want to share, they just seem to want to tell me why my thread is bad. Oh well. I got something out of it, so thanks blackguard.
Blackguard And that entails showing a situation where the theory does not hold true.. In the subjective No individual truths of a religious god described to occam hold true to observed reality. In the objective. No two people [or more] have ever SHOWN any phenomena that is a product of the gods of any religion.. Religion is words..human descriptions. There ARE no objective phenomena to support them.. Like beauty or love... Religion is a thing made by mind...to describe. Or control. And religion has made a huge effort to control And very little effort to reconcile its claims of the nature of reality. With OBSERVED reality. Religion and the gods of religion are but the toys and comforting words that make childhood comfortable. But. Now we have to be grown up... Responsible... Our fate has become our own. To make of as we WILL. Occam
I have personally been astounded by: Precognitive dreams I have had, at least six times in my life. A convincing astral travel experience, by my fiance while she was hospitalized. Being present to experience the fulfillment of a promised, specific sign a friends wife sent to him after she had passed on. People, self included, inexpicably surviving situations we concluded should've been fatal. Countless synchronicities and coincidences with odds so high against them I am very curious what they would be. I ask any member knowledgeable in the science of probability and statistics who wants to, to please contact me. I will give you all the detail I can recall for each one. I also have not heard anyone give a reasonable explanation of many magicians' 'illusions', and have been to see David Copperfield's act three times. David Blaine's tv special, street magic, is another hard for me to explain performance. All have added to my spiritual beliefs. So.........while this is all intriguing, with the causes unresolved by me, and has provoked much thought on how and why they happened, none of it proves the existence of a God. So, we are back to square one.
