Dear Liberals/Libertarians herein..

You're just mad, cause I made valid points that you can't disprove.
Obama is closer to Hitler/Stallen than my views will ever be!!! Cause generally, I don't believe that it's okay for the Federal Government to restrict protests or spy on citizens Emails and Texts, like Obama likes to do!!!


You tell me to "wake up," meanwhile, you're sound asleep. Obama isn't better than Romney, Mc Cain or, Bush. He works for the same corporations, and he's making BIG money, for following up on the "war on terror."

I give Liberals some credit because they knew Bush was evil. But Obama is never portrayed as "evil," and if you mention any of the tyrannical laws he's passed, it was always that damn "Republican Congress."

So wake up!!! It's not one side of the political field, fucking up our country. It's both sides!!!

If I could meet Obama, I would tell him; "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy!"

 

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To repeat it is not both sides as in left and right it is one side - right.

That’s the problem, there is no viable ‘left’ in the US and until Americans begin to realise that the political and social systems will remain the same or may even get worse.

 

For those wanting to discuss global warming I've begun a Climate Change debate thread
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=461103&f=36

 

Well our "left," is a bunch of fake corporate war mongers, so whatever you'd like to call it.

I just make it easy on myself in knowing that Both Sides = More Government.

 

This is a cop-out.

The whole "the system is too fucked for me to do anything with it" thing.

(granted, russia sucks, but) the fucking soviet union went from stalin to having the internet.

There's lots of people who want to use the system to make things better, even if we all know both "sides" are the same.

 

Btw, watch this when you have a second, bro!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2NJnL10vZ1Y#t=253s

 

Yes, guns trump gold.

If you're simply using them to protect the food you're simultaniously hoarding....

Otherwise you're basically admitting that you'd rob, loot, and murder however you saw fit, if the shit hit the fan and you'd only had the foresight to collect a bunch of pipes equipped with hammers.

 

I guess my biggest problem with Libertarianism is that the same legal changes that give more freedom to individuals would also give a lot more freedom to large corporations. I doubt if many people trust the management of Monsanto and Exxon and CitiBank more than they trust the government. Even with a lot of regulation in place, big corporations are constantly getting caught doing bad stuff.

 

But.... but....

those are people, being free (to fuck other people).

What's bad is when free people fuck other people a bit and interfere with corporations, and call it government. It's fine when free people fuck people and the environment and everything else, because....... it'll all even out in the end, if you just de-regulate everything they'll do the right thing, they only do bad now because you're watching them do bad.

It's like when I got pissed off for being caught eating sweets I wasen't allowed to as a kid.... I could blame them for looking, and forget that I was the one doing wrong as they looked.

 

Under a Libertarian system would there even be a legal apparatus for marriage? Wouldn't it be considered a statist institution that could be abolished?

 

Well marriage would be done through churches and institutions, and the government wouldn't be involved at all.

 

Really dude? Comparing Obama to 2 guys responsible for millions and millions of deaths? Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously when you spout nonsense like that?

All a continuation of the patriot act... from your buddy Bush?

Not all exactly the same but ya, of course he is. Thank Citizens United and our current Supreme Court for that. Hmm.. which presidents put the current Justices in place?

Jeez... maybe you're filtering your news and political commentary sources too much. Obama never portrayed as evil? um... ok. I've been hearing that nonstop since the 08 primaries.

That's certainly something most thinking people can agree on there!:cheers2:

 

Obama has executed American citizens without trial. He hasn't stood up for Bradley Manning, and the laws he's passed are meant to help GOVERNMENT, and not the people. When federal agents can kick in your door (under the guise of fighting terror.) Search your house and make you disappear without trial, that's pretty damn close to Hitler buddy...

Haha! Nice Try- The Patriot Act allows for Federal Agents to write their own search warrents. The laws Obama passed extend alot further than that!!!

I'm not gonna blame the supreme court, at least they are trying to fight drug-sniffing dogs as "unconstitutional." I'm not an idiot who believes "Obama's been trying, but that damn congress and Constitution wont LET him do anything."

The news is a political commentary. CNN and MSNBC obviously wanted Obama to win, and FOX news was it's usual republican propaganda. It sounds to me, like you're the type that gives Obama more credit than he deserves.

Did he ever shut down Gauntanamo as promised?

Is he a "whistle blowers" best friend as he promised?

When did your Liar and chief decide, enough was enough in Afghan?

Did he repeal the Patriot Act as promised, or did he decide we NEED it for another 8 years?

 

You don't see a difference between 2 citizens and a handful of other people as different than millions? I'm not defending drone strikes, but if I may, aren't statements like that hyperbole? To me, it sounds like the tactic of the news outlets you mention below, taking one fact and blowing it way out of proportion and repeating it, as if that tells the whole story.
Federal agents have been kicking in doors (under the guise of fighting terror) for years. Ever read about the 60's/70's and groups like the weather underground? All I'm saying by this is, nothing is drastically changed under Obama. Pointing at these isolated examples and presenting them as if somehow Obama is picking up a phone and ordering doors kicked in is ridiculous.
I don't see a sea-change as a result of Obama. Viewed through a microscope of hated for the guy (for whatever reason) is likely to create that impression though.
As for Manning... again, not commenting on the merit of what he did or lack of... what the hell do you expect? Do you think this govt or any other, ever, is going to elevate him to hero status? Do you know the Daniel Ellsberg story? Come on man... Obama sucks cause he's not defending a guy that leaked national secrets? Name me one single president that would.

Examples?

I didn't know the supreme court worked like that. As I was taught, the court is petitioned to hear cases and they decide what they will and wont hear. They don't decide what cases are brought to them. They hear the case, and make a decision. They aren't involved in fighting policy... that's not how they work at all.
As for Obama's been trying... that's just disengenous wording. Do you think a president is supposed to just march into office and do whatever the fuck he wants without congress restraining him? Do you think the checks and balances built into the 3 branch system work or don't work based on who is in office? I'm not even sure I understand what you're trying to say with that comment.

Mostly that's true, news is pretty lame these days, especially if that's all someone watches is those 3 outlets. They are pretty sorry journalists.
I don't think I give Obama more than he deserves, unless you blame him too much for shit you don't like.

Nope. He was pretty naive to promise that. I'd bet the day he got in office and they laid out the files on some of those guys, he went "OH". Then got into the legal issues and it's been stuck there ever since.
If you've read about the quagmire of that place, you'd know exactly why it's turned into the mess it is.

Look, it's just not an all or nothing thing. Are you just taking an anarchist position? Or, are you just harping on everything the guy has or hasn't done. It comes across as just so much "I hate Obama no matter what" and using isolated issues to "prove" he's "the worst president" ever and that sounds like the Fox news you mentioned.

Example: Over and over Palin and her ilk warn us Obama is coming for our guns. The truth is he's liberalized gun law.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/jun/15/nra-right-obama-coming-our-guns/

What I'm challenging here is extremism and pointing blame where it's misplaced. I'm not defending Obama. I didn't vote for him or Romney, I voted for Gary Johnson. Don't you think that we're divided enough... that if people spent more time looking for common ground and moderation, than feeding the polarization and extremism, that things could get better rather than worse?

 

I'm telling the truth about drastic threats to our constitution and way of life. Sure, I don't and probably can't, tell the "whole story." That's why people should read.

However, obviously the biggest difference between you and I is faith in the Obama administration and the Federal Government thereof.

Look,I can bad talk America's policies for the last 100 years (Federal Reserve Act and the Espionage act, which is the 'law' they prosecuted Bradley Manning with.)

I think a majority of American (98%) are too content with the current system because it's been "happening for years." IMO, this is a completely false idea. Maybe if you lived in Iraq, Iran or any middle eastern country, you could see the American Government for the bullies they are.

If our government can kill millions there, and call it "casualties," do you really think it'd be difficult for them to execute regular American citizens?

Plus, those who were killed by Obama had no trial at all, and were killed for the equivilant of "fight words."

Come on now, man, wake up! This is not the America our founders intended!!!

LEAKED National "secrets"?? Be careful buddy, you're starting to sound a lot like Fox News. America commiting War Crimes, being exposed to the CITIZENS, is HARDLY "aiding and abetting," the enemy. I like to think JFK wouldn't let a citizen be tourchered for utilizing what I see as their First Amendment Right to a Free Press.

I voted Johnson too. I don't like Obama because I believe in the Constitution, and LIMITING government power.


HR347- violates free speech, first amendment.

Ndaa/Patriot act/ CISPA- violates the 4th amendment

NDAA also legalized war propaganda, the likes of which, have not been legal since the WWII Era.

Not to mention uprising tensions with Iran, Israel and Palestine going to war, martial law being declared in parts of the US, and government building "FEMA camps" to "keep people safe" in emergencies.

But I know better than all that. When the government says they're doing something to "keep us safe," there's almost always an alternative motive.

 

the world today is different than the world the people who wrote your constitution lived in. that's probably why it has been amended so many times...

 

It really hasn't been. Freedom of speech, of the press, religious preference, the right to be protected against unreasonable searches, were recognized as human rights, NOT government rights.

We receive those rights because we're human, and our founders understood, only a tyrannical government would try to take our human rights away!

That's my opinion on the matter anyway. I don't support the 18th amendment. I think 1-10 pretty much says what's wrong with America today best, and it's really just a disregard for our individual rights.

 

there have been 27 amendments, according to wikipedia. my point is that it has changed a lot since it was written, so maybe relying on the views of the original authors isn't the strongest argument.

 

Two of those were the prohibition of alcohol, and the repeal of the prohibition of alcohol. But America should've learned the obvious that criminalization doesn't work!!!

But look at the 1st-10th amendments these are the amendments which I especially want the federal government to adhere to.

 

Take a look at the actual amendments... really not that much change... thankfully.