The Bible and Homosexuality

There was another one before the current one??

This is too much.

 

then in the kind shine of a playful spirit i can write this :

our father who is Art in heaven
a halo be thy name , like the
rainbow around the sun

 

Fathers tend to be men. Is there a point here?

 

god forgives all if u feel u need to be forgiven that is so its a hard thing to debate but ifin thats ur only main sin i think god will be ok

 

why dosent it say women who lay with women????????

 

Well I don't recall not wanting Leviticus mentioned. There are some passages in particular that deserve more mention but tend to be overlooked by Christian fundamentalists:
[FONT=&quot]“You shall love the stranger as yourself,”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“The wages of a laborer shall not remain with you until morning.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“You shall not curse the deaf or place a stumbling block before the blind.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“You shall not stand idly by while your neighbor’s blood is shed.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“You shall not go about as a talebearer (or gossipmonger) among your people.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not hate your brother in your heart.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not take revenge or bear a grudge.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“You shall not reap the corners of your vinyard, but rather leave them for the poor.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“You shall respect the elderly.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“You shall use honest weights and measures.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“In judging a dispute, you shall not show undue favoritism for the poor or the rich.”[/FONT]

Of course, there are also the parts that Christians don't follow because Paul told us they're no longer applicable--eating pork or shellfish, trimming our beards or the hair on the sides of our face, wearing clothing of two different kinds of thread, etc. Leviticus generally takes a dim view of mixing things--likes to keep 'em separated. Even Jews recognize that Gentiles aren't bound by the law of Moses, only by the seven Noahide laws, which admittedly do include immoral sexual conduct--but not necessarily Leviticus' understanding of it.

What then does Leviticus say about same sex relations? Note that it says nothing about lesbians, only males. It is my understanding that Leviticus addresses an historical context in which: (1)fertility cults and shrine and temple prostitution were prevalent; and (2) sexual relations were an expression of male dominance. It is my understanding that, as is the case with 1 Romans, Leviticus does not address behavior involving loving, committed relationships.

The pertinent parts are Leviticus 18 and 21. Leviticus 18 says: Ve'et zakhar (And a male) lo tishkav (you shall not bed) mishkeve ishah (as in the lyings of a woman) to'evah hi (it is abhorrent) or "and with mankind you shall not lie beds a woman it is an abomination". Some gay apologists have interpreted this as "If you're going to have sex with a man, at least don't do it in a woman's bed". But I don't think that's what it means. Man-on-man sexual penetration is understood. Lev. 21 provides the death penalty for both offenders.The passages occur in a clear context of opposition to practices of fertility gods. We are told three times that the Levite laws are to prevent engaging in practices of Egyptians and Canaanites. Lev. 20 specifically deals with Moloch. And the term "to'evah" ordinarily refers to sacrilege--a religious offense; for other sins, the term zimah is used. The fertility cults which were the rage among Canaanites and even Israelites included male and female prostitution, performed on a bed-altar to the goddesses Astoreth, Asherah, etc. So Leviticus may simply be the counterpart to Deuteronomy's prohibition against an Israelite becoming a qadish
(male temple or shrine prostitute) or participating in cult sex rituals.

At the time, throughout the ancient world, sex was regarded as an expression of dominance, captured in our contemporary saying: Fuck you!
It was something men did to women, slaves and children, and that victorious armies did to captives. For a Jewish man to use another Jewish man in that way turned the recipient into an inferior--a woman, as slave or a child. Both parties were culpable. The only other time mishkeve (in the lyings of, or bed) is used in the Bible is in when Jacob curses Reuven for raping Behla, his wife's hand maiden. "You went up upon the lyings of your father". According to Rabbi Steven Greenberg, "mishveve is the word for intercourse used whsn the motive is not love but demonstration of virile Power, not connection but disconnection, not tenderness but humiliation and violence." Do we have modern day counterparts? All too many. But if gay sex isn't mishkeve, Leviticus isn't applicable.

So far be it from me not to want Leviticus mentioned. And (no disrespect) I don't think Moses wrote it. I'm persuaded by the Documentary Hypothesis that it was one or more Aaronite priests called "P".

 

Now that there"s an argument ya can chew on ~ or that help set ya free one way or 'tuther seems like to me...
One thing this guy is on to ~ Moshes didn't write it. Any of it. But we're supposedly "bumbling it up" if we tell that (according to the vatican anyway...)

 

yes , traditions can be amended even obliterated . you ,
the govt , the universities , the lutherans - can together do
this thing called love . manipulate love , piously . there are
no victims - the alter boys have been saved . sex and
the imagination have become civilized . the u.s marines are
become love , too .

a spirit action is wild

 

aw man ya love or ya don't ~ bout that simple. Like I said, ain't hurting anybody don't tackle me first. Amen.

 

you ? i hope not you . who was talking to i forget who was talking to ,
and so i spose i'm done remembering .

 

Humans are distinctive among God's creations in being rational (some of us) and capable of correcting misunderstandings, as Jesus illustrated in his encounters with the Pharisees. So yes, traditions can change in response to new scholarship. If you think there was no manipulation of these traditions in the past you're naive. And if you think what I or anyone else has said means all rules are infinitely pliable and anything goes where sex is concerned, go back and read again. I amire your poetic spirit, but you might consider writing plainly, lest your cryptic thoughts be dismissed as ravings.

 

Oh he capable of both... (heh)

 

No one is born gay. It is a choice. Sometimes it is a subconscious choice, but it is always a choice. What I mean by subconscious choice is, there are men who have father's who were not affectionate. They were never verbally affectionate or physically affectionate. If this particular boy is very sensitive, he might find himself attracted to other boys, and not understand why. The reason (although he is not consciously aware of this) is that he is longing for the affection of the same sex parent - which is the father. That is why some guys say, "I knew I was gay when I was 7 years old." Trust me, at 7 years old they weren't thinking, "I'd like to have sex with that boy." No, they were longing for the attention and affection of that boy. And it is the same for women who have fathers that are not verbally or physically affectionate. They too will grow up and be very promiscuous. Because they too are longing for the affection and attention they lacked from their father.

God wouldn't make a man gay and leave in his male reproductive system.
God wouldn't make a man gay and then tell him it is a sin to sleep with another man. God is not mocked.

 

I have heard all the bullcrap excuses before. Why don't you get your head out of the 1950's handbook for mental illness and join modern society.

 

Well in case anyone is interested; I believe that the argument of "is homosexuality wrong, immoral or a sin) is a waste of your time. People who are religious will not change their belief that this practice is wrong. If someone believes the bible to be the inspired word of God then how can you argue your point with them? Because they are thinking about Sodom and Gomorrah (hope I spelled that right). Lets not forget what happened to Lot's wife. So if you want to believe that homosexuality is ok that is your right and in this country that right cannot be taken away from you. The religious person does not do Christianity and favors when they engage in arguments with people who want to defend homosexuality. Many times they make a bad impression as do some of those who try to defend homosexuality. Trying to argue that the bible and God do not adversely view homosexuality is also a waste of time because the bible does speak adversely of the practice. To the Christians here I would say; Do you think that Jesus would say the things that you are saying? I do not think that he would say anything more than that it is contrary to the normal human relationship, that it is sinful etc. God and Jesus love all mankind. It does no good to get into a heated argument. To the defenders of the right to choose your sexual orientation I would say don't waste your time trying to discredit someones belief structure. If they are intolerant then you should feel sorry for them because we need to be tolerant and recognize that there are good reasons to lack faith in the belief in God and the bible. Religions are confused and contradictory in their beliefs and it is very difficult these days to believe that any one of them is the right one. God if he exists understands all this. I hope that he does exist because I prefer it to the alternative belief that death brings a permanent state of non-existence. Just my two cents.

 

Why be surprised at this quote? All "Lisa" has done is post nonsense straight out of the dark ages, everywhere "she" has gone on the forums.


After yelling repeatedly about the evils of mushrooms at 5:12am this morning she says

She doesn't have time... but then goes on to make 5 (strike that, it's 7 now) more posts like

and

Most telling of all tho...

So ... um... "Lisa" is it? Perhaps a good dose of shrooms or acid would help you out a bit. Or maybe one day someone you know and love will finally come out as gay and you'll have to face yourself and your fucked up belief system and have your own little crisis like your pretend friends that are damaged from mushroom trips.
Generally, compassion for your fellow human beings comes from two places. You're either born with it and make it a point to cultivate it, or, you get it forced on you by the experience of living.
Of course psychedelics change brain chemistry. So does burying your nose in ancient biblical nonsense, surrounding yourself with hateful closed minded people and railing against other peoples morals and values. Not very christian of you is it?
It's called sociopathy.

And who knows God better than good ol Lisa ?

 

What does this mean? It means what god had prohibited does not occur and what god had created does occur.

What god has joined, no man may put asunder.

For your hardness of heart moses allowed you to divorce your wives but from the beginning it was not so.

Not all men can receive this precept of yours Lisa000, but only to those to whom it's given, for there are eunuchs who have been so since birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

 

Don't need to. It was posted. In case you're having a hard time following your own bullshit..

It's a bit disengenous to say you're discussing anything, mostly you're just flaming the boards with hate and homophobia.

And it didn't take long for you to show your true self. Kinda figured it wouldn't take much. Not that it matters, I'm not gay. I also don't hate other human beings. Not even you.
But, these are the hip forums, not the sociopathic forums. There's no reason for you to be hanging out with all us heathens unless you're just bored and looking for a new place to spread your hatred.
Now, if you'd like to have a civil discussion, that's another matter. The essence of being hip is being open to other viewpoints. If you can support your claims of homosexuality being somehow wrong, write down some coherent thoughts. But don't be surprised if all you can do is quote some ancient text that's been twisted and re-written over and over by kings and medieval social engineers that burned witches and fucked little boys and expect people not to challenge that.
All Maelstrom is saying with his tag is that he doesn't need the bible to find his own morals. I'd suggest that if your only guide to morality is that book, then perhaps you're the one that hasn't read it.
Unless of course you agree with the idea that women are property to be owned by men.
In which case, I hope that you stick with your promise quoted above and not return to this web site, let alone the mushroom sub forum.

 

God is not mocked.

Did you?

God created man in his image and likeness and saw that it was good, very good. Who is not as god created?

I tell you whoever causes anyone of these little ones to stumble, has profaned the sonship.

Let he who is blameless cast the first stone.

 

Choose your battles wisely. And respect the fact that people have free will.