Why I don't believe in astrology:

Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own destiny. I don't like the idea that my destiny is either controlled by or influenced by something outside of my own will.

I prefer instead to think that "there is no fate but what we make for ourselves" (a quote taken from Terminator 2).

I know that we are influenced by our genetics and our upbringing, and these things we can't control. But I like to think that from our own free will and determination, and our power of imagination to dream of a future that excites us and make steps towards that future by reaching our goals one step at a time is far more enriching, rewarding, inspiring and motivating. Not to mention that it's a more romantic and self empowering idea than some fate that's already been decided for us by some cosmic unknown force written in the stars for some reason that per-destines our lives.

I don't believe in fate: Fate can only be decided upon when the thing that was fate has happened. So an event happens, lets say I meet the girl of my dreams, and we say it was fate. But if I never met her, we wouldn't even be discussing whether it was fate or not because there would be nothing to discuss.

I think that everything just happens the way it happens and it's up to each one of us to make the best choices in our lives to decide what to do with what comes our way, based on logical reasoning and also emotional responses, to carry on with our lives along the path we wish to go down.

We can only judge something as being fate once it has happened, then call it fate after the event has already occurred. If there really was fate, then we would be able to see what the fate is before it actually happens. I.e, we would be able to accurately predict the future. Yet we can't.

Nobody, from the greatest scientists, to the greatest philosophers, to the greatest astrologers can predict the future. And therefore, I can only conclude, that there is no such thing as fate.

Discuss.

 

Of course your "destiny" is influenced by things outside of your control. Other people exist, therefore things will cause influence on you.

My comment, if read, will cause an influence... even if it's chose to be ignored - it's still an influence!

You do, however, have the "primary" influence on your own path (the word destiny in itself attempts to define and uncontrollable/uninfluenceable path through life).

Astrology - sure... I don't believe it has the range of effects proponents claim it does.

But quantum physics explains how it could be possible for it to be real.

Solar cycles have the biggest influences on animal behaviour on this planet. Looking at data relating to solar peaks... a lot of wars and aggression happen around periods of increased solar activity.

The position Mars and if it's moving in retrograde however... unlikely to have any noticeable effect.


You seem to phrase it as if it's black or white... as if you have no control or all the control. No, just like everything in life, it's varying shades of grey. Different things will influence different people in different ways.

I'm sure if someone believes that they can be influences by planetary motion, then they will be... that's the nature of the human brain, the way we work.



One nice idea I like to muse upon when I'm sharing my head with Lucy is how our paths happen or are chosen.

We (humans, likely other animals) perceive time as a series of snapshots in a linear progression. This is not how the fourth dimension actually exists. In a universal context, everything has effectively already happened. Every possibility, every choice, every existence, every universe, every alternate universe. Every branch in our potential path is a new universe, every imagination is a new universe.

I like to think that our consciousness can subconsciously navigate this mess.

In fact, someone else was able to phrase this much better than I:

http://www.tenthdimension.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2016


I love that idea - it's wonderful to ponder.

And my DMT + ~700ug acid trip let me experience this, it was wonderful.

 

Hi, I'm gonna respond better when I have more time, so please don't think I'm dismissing you. But yea, I guess I was thinking in terms of black and white. I used to think in these terms years ago and life made sense to me. Then I began to suffer crippling panic attacks, depression, and stress related anxiety disorder, and I couldn't think straight, and from then on, life was not only shades of grey to me, but a mass of confusion. A mass of conflict between my logical reasoning and my emotions. I was all over the place. I went on pills for it, which seemed to help at first, but I soon realised that they were slowly making me even worse than I was before I took them. Then I was overrun with anger, jealousy, etc, and I was an emotional wreck!

Over the course of a good few years, I've slowly come off the pills, and I've learned a hell of a lot about myself, about fear, and about mental/emotional conflicts which held me back. And as I did this, things began to become black and white for me again, (instead of just a mish-mash of shades of grey and conflicting emotions).

At last I can think clearly again, I can reason properly, and I have the concentration to be able to think things through properly. So if people say that seeing things as black and white is a bad thing, well sign me up because I love it. I'm beginning to think people who see in shades of grey are really just confused.

However, I don't want to be arrogant or ignorant! I want to be open to the possibilities and to explore concepts and ideas, so I will read your post properly when I have the time, I'm just at work at the mo, and it looks like it deserves some respect.

Fate and destiny are interesting concepts to me which is why I wanted to chat about it, so I'll be in touch l8r.

 

Sure thing bud, don't worry... Ill never see continuing a discussion as dismissive - no matter any viewpoint opinion

As for shades of grey, I used to think in black and white and figured that I could accept things better and have a wider viewpoint if I thought of everything as varying shades rather than static. It allows me to expand more and in fact reduces confusion, for me at least.

 

wow tasty just blew my mafuckin mind. Ya i dont really believe in fate or anything i just think its all random sequence of events and i just happen to have some control over what happens and like you say be an influence so i feel like im worth something.
Then after the present moment drifts by, i think to myself, hmm no matter what i would have thought or done, i had no control over anything whatsoever, because things are going to happen ONE way and one way only, so part of me thinks that the future already is determined, and there will be only one continuing result.
But conciousness and the universe is farr too interesting and complex for that to be true, i think the quantum physics help make the universe to keep being fucky and keep changing the results of the timeline we are in now. I like the idea of the infinite universe thing and the car crash example, i have been in quite a few close calls with death with my reckless driving, and my worst wreck i felt like i was meant to die that day and that night my brain kept telling me i straight up cheated death literally.
Might be my active imagination, but a lot of those times i almost crashed, i could like sense those other universes where i did crash and die, i could see people going to my funeral and could see how sad i made my dad and everybody. I could see that shit pretty vividly no joke, i like to think that my passed away mom helped me not die all those times mabey god too and she wants to make it obvious that its her making me a lucky fuck, i have gotten in way too many close calls for that to come down to chance. She just wants me to be aware of all that and not treat driving as much of a game and learn my lesson. I am worried that i will never get tired of driving like a psycho tho ..

 

That's a good start, but you shouldn't believe in something or not believe in something because you like or don't like the idea. You should believe in things for which there is good evidence, while remaining skeptical. Things for which there is not good evidence you should withhold belief until such evidence is forthcoming.

This is a good outline, but of course you also need to be able to judge what kinds of evidence are good and bad. Intuitively hard to grasp, but personal experience is not a good form of evidence. This is why we have randomised controlled double blind tests to distinguish what is real from what we might assume to be the case. Astrology does not pass such tests.

 

This statement makes no sense

 

Hi. I just had a similar chat with my future brother-in-law about Astrology. He called me ignorant etc on Facebook, but then deleted it ahead of my upcoming dinner with his family. I saw it in my junk file so decided to respond. It may have been my fault that he called me stupid and ignorant because I called Astrology "Bullshit" without giving any reasons. So I posted a long response on Facebook giving my reasons for my thoughts on Astrology, and I'll copy and paste it here. The guy's also called 'Richard':

Richard wrote: "I am very open minded as life has taught me to be this way, to dismiss something in the way you have is ridiculous, you obviously don't know enough about it to even comment and this level of ignorance does not sit well with me. Your closed mind will limit you to few experiences, yet mine will open countless doors. And whether I believe in it or not is not in question here. And knowledgeable does not and never has meant 'to think about' it means to actually learn about it, something you clearly did not know, ever. And Zoe is wrong whoever she is. Clearly Richard, you are the moron living in the fantasy world, I assume you are thinking horoscopes when you talk about astrology, which is so basic its ridiculous, and I also imagine your probably the sort of bloke who reads the daily star (if you read at all) so yeah, from your point of view I can see why you think its bollocks, but that's not astrology is it? get to school get your head in a few books and come back when your mental age has caught up."
Richard, I think we've gotten off on the wrong foot. When I said what I did on Facebook I was saying what seemed like a sweeping statement based on ignorance and closed mindedness, just ignorantly dismissing a concept which I haven't even bothered to consider. I assume you must be thinking "who is this ignorant closed minded bastard that my sister's marrying?" If you are, let me tell you, you couldn't be more wrong. I'm actually a very open minded, sensitive guy who thinks about concepts and ideas and who loves thinking behind the scenes to how things work. I don't believe I have a closed mind, but rather a 'concluded mind': Concluded because I've thought about the subject of Astrology and have now concluded that it isn't helpful or accurate, so I've put it to bed. But I have room for an epilogue in my "understanding" of Astrology, or any other concepts if said epilogue is profound enough.
But I understand why you think of me the way you do. Stacey said you love a good argument and debate, and boy was she right! But rather than have an argument or a debate where both sides want to 'win' to satisfy their own ego, I'd prefer to have a dialectic. That means that both sides are throwing ideas into the pot so that both can arrive at the truth rather than just to win. So anything I say here isn't going to be sarcastic or facetious in any way. So please don't respond by calling me ignorant or stupid. Instead, tell me what it is I'm missing the point on, and I'll listen.
By the way, this was only intended to be a short letter but the more I wrote the more I wanted to keep on writing, so please be patient with it.
A bit of a back [sob] story here: Many years ago I was closed minded and believed I knew it all and would dismiss things I didn't care to understand. But as I grew up, my self esteem was eroded, mostly because of my brother James who bullied me to fuck! He made my home life fucking hell and drove my Mum to drink and chain smoke. He was intolerable to live with, and when he wasn't hitting me he would be in my ear telling me what a loser I was. He would pull me up and push me out of the room and tell me to "get out of his sight" and humiliate me in front of his friends and in front of my own friends! If I protested, my Mum would start crying and saying "Why are you doing this to me?" to which my brother would say "Look you made Mum cry now, you little bastard!" And this went on for years. So I learned to take all his punishment, for my Mum's sake. Because of all this I would be as quiet as a mouse at home and basically just go to my room and interact with people as little as possible. I became painfully shy and quiet, and socially inept.
As my self esteem deteriorated I basically developed what you may call social anxiety disorder where I couldn't answer the door or phone or talk to people, and I spent more and more time by myself. But this behavior didn't spill out to school; at school I was still pretty cool and would get on with people as best I could. I loved learning and would strive to do as well as possible because basically it's all that I had.
But back at home, my sense of certainty in myself and life eroded and I doubted myself and my reality. It was around this time that I began to question things which I has previously dismissed as nonsense. Things like the existence of God and Astrology. I began to believe in God because had no belief in myself. And I became open to concepts like Astrology and Karma. I'll admit I didn't read that much about the philosophy of it, aside from collecting one of those file's that you buy week by week. You know, the ones where the price starts at 99p but then each edition costs £6.99! But I collected each one [although I also have to further admit that I also did it because I saw it as a way to talk to girls, because I was obviously hopeless with the opposite sex, and girls like Astrology don't they lol?] I read about religions like the Hare Krishna and Catholicism, as well as novels like Anne Rice's Vampire Cronicles [if you haven't read it, I highly recommend it] and Mario Puzo books; The Godfather, The Sicilian, The Last Don etc. I loved the way that both Vampires and gangsters lived by their own rules, both detached from society, whilst being an immense force against it to get what they whatever they wanted regardless of who gets hurt or killed. Yet they also had human qualities [yes even the vampires] of love and understanding and compassion.
But back to the sob story; when I was about 15 my brother upped the ante with the bullying and I became more nervous day to day, moment to moment. I couldn't talk to people, and I became an outcast and a bit of a geek to be honest! I became even more withdrawn till I had no life at all. I had no Dad; he fucked off when I was 6! My brother, somehow in his warped thinking, would blame me because he had no Dad, but he never stopped to think that 1: it's not my fault, and 2: I didn't have a Dad either! If I was the older brother, I would've banded together and helped him and been there for him.
I started binge eating, and would've puked it up again but I didn't have the stomach for that, so instead I just got fat! My loving brother saw me as pathetic and weak and would actually punish me for being such a geek even though it was because of him that I was such a geek! I processed my reality as completely pointless and it began to seep into my school life as well, so I became more nervous in school and less able to socialise there. Then I was bullied further, not just by other students, but by teachers too! There was this one deputy head who goes by the name of Mr Hirst who would go out of his way to humiliate me in front of the entire class, and once in front of the entire year just before an exam. Yea, before an exam!
Even my Mum started being cruel to me and didn't stop to think what I was going through, even though I took his punishment to make it easier for her! But I wasn't some kind of hero though; I was actually scared of him! But my Mum, bless her was going through a lot of shit herself: She had a shit job paying shit money and could barely pay the bills. She had no man to help her and she also had to deal with James and his moods. She was under immense pressure herself and I guess I was an easy target to vent it out on!
I found some comfort in thinking about God and Astrology, that it would all work itself out in the end. I thought Karma would sort it all out because I knew I was a good person that was treated unfairly. I thought God must love me, although I also hated God for allowing this shit to happen to me! I was so confused. But that was all I got from these beliefs; some comfort. It didn't solve my problems or even help me deal with my problems, only gave me some vague hope that somehow, thing will get better one day, somehow.
When I was about 17 I started fighting back. I got to the point where I was sick of having to deal with his moods, and it was obvious that my he treated me so bad because he was a fucking loser and his life was going nowhere! He did shit at him exams, went to college and fucked that off, and spent all day smoking weed with his loser friends and not working. So at some point I was sick of being the nice guy and I kicked the dining room table at him and bit his finger as hard as I could and booted him down the stairs! It was a long time coming, but it was just a spit in the ocean. But being an emotional wreck I felt guilty for it. He would be nice one day and I would feel guilty, then he would be horrible and I hated him, then he would be nice again and I would feel guilty again. He was a complete head fuck!
I was at sixth form and I just wanted to do well at my exams and get to Uni so I could get the hell out of my hell hole life and start again. But by then, the damage was done. After a year off I went to Uni only to fuck it up. I felt like a loser there too, and I was a nervous wreck. I discovered Ecstasy in my year off, and I thought I had found the answer! That shit transformed me from being a nervous wreck into this cool motherfucker with shit loads of energy brimming over with positivity! I couldn't believe it! I though I had found myself, and I went out to clubs and fucking loved it. I no longer had suicidal thoughts and could actually enjoy life and live in the moment with this shit! I could actually look in the mirror! [A side effect from having no self esteem was not being able to look in the mirror because I despised myself so much.]
So I did E's at uni, I spent like £200 on them, bought them in a big stash wholesale just for my own personal consumption so I'll always have them on me. I did at least half a pill a day to keep myself topped up. But of course there was a downside to this stuff; when you're not on it after having been on it, you feel feel worse than you were before you took it in the first place. When I was on them, my brain flooded with the neurotransmitter serotonin, the feel good chemical, and I could think so clearly and so easily and I had all the energy in the world to manifest all the wonderful ideas that come to my mind. But when I wasn't on them the serotonin levels depleted to a level much lower than they were before you took them and I had no energy, I couldn't think straight and my mind was flooded with thoughts of self doubt and suicide. I would have flashbacks of all the horrible shit that had ever happened to me and I became a complete and utter retard! So I took them most every day!
I realised that this technique wouldn't work long term, so when my supply ran out I didn't buy any more. I did do whizz on a few occasions though: I went to a Slipknot gig and met a wonderful girl there called Mercedes, she was half Spanish! We had a very brief love affair because when I came down off the whizz I became a complete paranoid wreck again and couldn't bare to look in the mirror, let alone be seen by anybody, so I couldn't meet her again. I broke her heart I think, and I still feel guilty for that now!
So to cope with my emotional issues, I would stay up all night drinking wine in my Uni accommodation, instead of taking E's, listening to Korn, Pink Floyed, Radiohead, you know, the happy sort of music, promising myself that each day I would definitely go in to my lectures in the morning, and breaking that promise each day. I knew that my situation was ridiculous and I looked into seeing a hypnotherapist as I'd heard that you can solve your emotional problems very quickly and easily with it, and I made an appointment to see a hypnotherapist called Andrew Nelson, and this meeting would change my life forever. Before the actual hypnosis he had me practice some mental techniques where I could drain the emotion out of the painful memories so they no longer affected me. I would see them in my minds eye and detatch myself from them, see them in other perspectives, and in my mind run the experiences through backwards, then forwards, at full speed, at 2x speed, at 10x speed etc, and it allowed me to re-process the memories and the emotional attachment I had to them, so the pain drained away. It worked like magic. Then he hypnotised me to embed them in my subconscious mind. When I left his clinic I felt a natural high I had never felt before, and it felt so good just to be alive! A massive massive burden was lifted from me and I felt like me again.
I went to America on the camp America thing and worked in a Jewish summer camp, and there I met who was up to that point, the love of my life. We had an amazing summer together followed by a week in New York, but then I had to come home. We missed each other terribly, so I flew back to see her again. Except everything was different second time around. Somehow the vibe had changed and it no longer had the magic it did. A lot of my anxieties came back and I basically fucked up the relationship and was completely devastated from it and all my problems re surfaced. I came home again a wreck, and well meaning people told me that maybe I just had a chemical imbalance, so I went on anti-depressants. That was the worst decision I ever made because although they made me feel great at first, they came with one unfortunate side effect: Sexual dysfunction. I couldn't get an erection whilst on them, and I certainly couldn't cum. But when I didn't take them I could have sex/wank but my mind and emotions would become an absolute mess - worse than they were before I took them in the first place! So it was a choice between being a complete emotional wreck who can wank, or a normal person who could never wank or have sex, or form relationships. So I would bosh a few to keep me going for as long as I could before my mental state deteriorated to the point that I needed more, bosh a load more and then wait as long as possible again.
I did this for years - 8 years in total, all within going to therapy, and seeing more of Andrew Nelson [who proved ineffective now because the medication overrode his good work] and seeing other life coaches in seminars like the Speakmans, Tony Robbins, and I read a lot of self help books. The best thing about the Tony Robbins event was on the last day when he talked about the importance of health to emotional well-being. He put me on a health journey and I found there is more to physical health and vitality than just cutting back on fat and eating fruit. The body doesn't only get it's energy from carbohydrates, but also from electricity. Every cell in the body is run on a subtle electronic charge to power it. Nerve cells are like power lines connecting all the cells and organs of the body and without this electrical charge we feel fatigued and depressed. In order to maintain this electrical charge, the spark of life if you will, the body strives to maintain a neutral pH in the fluid that surrounds each cell, and the blood. When we get out of balance, when we eat poorly or are stressed out, we become more acidic and the electrical flow decreases. So we feel lethargic. Being acidic also affects the blood too; the river of life. It makes the blood cells clump together so they just sludge through the blood vessels, just like most people sludge through life! I found that eating a diet of fresh fruit and vegetables, especially leafy greens, helps to maintain the body's natural alkalinity, so we feel more awake, more alert and more alive! I have lived raw vegan before now, although I don't do that consistently, but when I do I feel so charged up it's amazing! I need to do a detox soon because Christmas has taken it's toll on me, what with all the extra work and eating shite. I'm gonna detox on vegetable juice [carrot, cucumber and celery] green smoothies [banana, ginger, melon, spinach and coriander] and salads to get myself back in balance soon. I can't wait!
Some of the self help seminars and books was really useful and some was utter rubbish, like looking in the mirror and telling yourself how great you are - useless! But I never forgot how amazing that first meeting with Andrew Nelson was, and I began to develop my own self help system, which I call The Moores Method. I'm writing The Moores Method book now. It's been a long time coming, because as my ideas have evolved and been tested on myself I'm developing a method which I hope anybody with emotional issues will be able to pick up and read and then apply straight away. I've written it, re-written it, scrapped it, re-worked it and re-written it again. It's sort of semi-autobiographical with the techniques built in, ending with a step by step list of what to do to break free of emotional barriers and addictions.
The Moores Method works by first understanding the true nature of the problem, of fear and where it comes from, and a whole bunch of other stuff which is far too much to write here. You see, I believe that anxiety comes from a damaged self esteem, and that the fear response is there to protect you from getting into a situation you won't be able to handle. Self esteem is to me, not just how much you like or value yourself, but a measure of your own competency, and a person with low self esteem will believe themselves to be not very good, not very worth it. So they will most likely feel anxious or nervous and inadequate because on a deep rooted emotional level they feel that they are not good enough and don't have what it takes. The Moores Method changes that by getting to the root of the poor self esteem, the emotions which are embedded in your memories and drains that emotion out in what I call a 'mental detox', then you re-align your self image so you see yourself in better more positive ways. Then you align yourself with your goals and dreams of the future so you identify with them and fully connect with them on a deep emotional level so you feel compelled to follow through.
It's kind of spiritual in a way, because we can use the power of our minds to create our lives and shape our own destiny. Everything you see around you, except for nature, was first created in the mind, then took shape from that in order for it to become what it is now, like a TV. But then a TV also evolved too didn't it? They didn't just invent a TV and suddenly you've got an HD ready widescreen digital surround sound. At first they were black and white, no sound [I think] one channel and a very poor picture quality. But as science and technology developed and people had better more inventive ideas, they became what they are today.
But there's so much more to The Moores Method than that, I've barely scratched the surface. One of the main things it does is to bring your mind into congruence with yourself. A lot of people are in conflict with themselves, their logical mind says one thing and their emotions run the opposite way. Like a person will want to lose weight and go to a gym, but keep binging on junk food and feeling disappointed with themselves! The Moores Method changes that so both your logic and your emotions guide you to the destination you want.
Even though I was writing all this, I wouldn't put it all into practice fully because I was still on the medication. But with the help of a wonderful woman, your sister, I managed to wean myself off them and I've never felt better in my life! With her love and understanding and patience I am now completely free of all medication and drugs, and that is why I will love her forever! She is the one and only true love of my life! Whatever she wants to do, I'll always be 110% behind her. That means that I could back track 10% and I'd still be completely behind her!
After a long, painful journey, I am now the happiest, most fulfilled I have ever been and as far as I can tell it's only going to get better. I got this way by thinking for myself, learning, trying new things, and of course with Stacey's love and support. As for Astrology, all I can say is, it didn't really help me, except to give me some vague sense of hope somewhere along the line. I don't know man, I just don't get it. As I said before, if there really are some answers out there that I'm not getting, please tell me what they are. The only thing I can say good about Astrology is that I know the moon used to affect my pet cat and made her go a bit mad on a full moon, so if the moon can have an effect then maybe the stars do because they're billions of times greater in mass? But then they are many light-years away, so I don't see how they affect us. Is there supposed to be some sort of destiny written in the stars like some kind of cryptic cosmic map, mapping out our lives? And who put it there, God? So has God already mapped out our lives for us, and we're just going through the motions? But what about free will? Do we have the power to create our own destiny or are we just lemmings like in the computer game, being controlled by a higher power? I prefer to think we ourselves have the power to create our own realities, and that the future isn't written yet. If there was really such thing as destiny, and events of the world were supposed to happen, then as far as I can tell, we'd be able to predict the future. Yet we can't! They said the world was going to end in 1999 - it didn't. They said the Millennium bug would cause some big upheaval and society would turn to chaos - it didn't. They said the world was gonna end in December 21st 2012 - it didn't. I can only conclude that if there was such thing as fate, then we would be able to predict the future,and as far as I know, nobody can predict the future [not even the weatherman].
Fate is kind of a self serving idea to me anyway. You can only judge whether something was fate in hindsight - once the event has already unfolded. Nobody could say that it is fate for, I don't know, the Blackpool tower to fall down, then when it doesn't happen they would argue that it was supposed to have fallen down but didn't! That would man that fate did't get it right, and if it's fate it has to get it right, otherwise it isn't fate. Do you get what I mean? Perhaps a bad example, but something can only be called fate once it's happened and by then it's too late to change it. I like the Oasis song The Masterplan: "All we can do is to make the best of what comes our way" And I think that's about right. To me, there is no fate but what we make for ourselves.
The only thing I can say about the existence of God is, whatever started the big bang, if that's what started the universe, must've been some kind of force which is both powerful and existed before time itself, since time was created in the big bang, and we could possibly call that force God. And the fact that science in all its advancement cannot produce life [although it can manipulate genes and implant chromosomes into eggs and fertilize them but that's not the same thing]. If it could create life then we could safely say for certain how life came about. But I have a problem with religion itself. I think of it as a system of control based on so many fallacies it just can't be true. If people were made by God and they go about life according to their own nature how can they be sinners for doing what it is in their nature to do? How can God create someone to be homosexual and then punish them for being so? How can he give us sexual urges and then punish us for having sexual thoughts? Just the other day at work some people were asking me about why I'm vegetarian and I was just answering their questions, not preaching anything, just answering. They said do I eat fruit pastilles. I said yes. This Asian lad said 'well you're not vegetarian then because it contains gelatine'. To which I replied 'vegetarian is just a label that society gives. I could call myself a person who doesn't eat animal flesh if that's easier'. He wouldn't accept my answer so I said 'there are many different types of vegetarians. Some eat fish and call themselves vegetarian, some eat white meat and call themselves vegetarian. I even know an Asian lad from when I worked at Asda who said he was vegetarian who only ate Halal meat'. He said 'did he fuck' and I said 'the thing is, I can do what I wanna do, I don't live my life by somebody else' rules, I make my own rules' at which point I had won the argument and he ran at me and kicked these totes at me! Seriously. He couldn't stand that he was wrong and like a child, spit his dummy out. He said don't talk to me, but it was too irresistible, I had to tell him that his little outburst meant that he'd lost the argument and in a free thinking society we can all live by our own rules, as long as one person's lifestyle doesn't tread on someone else'. I came out of it looking mature and level headed and he came out looking like a brainwashed religious nutter, intolerant of anyone's views except his own!
In the bus station yesterday, a religious man was handing out flyers for church. It read "You must know that each of us are sinners, and no matter how good you are to others, there is only one way into heaven, and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ, our savior" and "Those who reject Jesus' teachings will burn in hell-fire for eternity". I would've kept it but Stacey threw it away. The thing is, I am a good person and I do do right by others. I treat people with respect, how I wish to be treated, and I don't require any religion to do this. I think the point of life is to enjoy it. Why would God put us here only to have us sacrifice this life for the promise of a better life later on. Why can't we enjoy what we have here and now? And nobody has come back from heaven and told us of it that hasn't been proven to be wrong, as far as I know.
I find that I have a better life in the now by being good to others. I know there are so many who reject God who are complete bastards, but I'm not one of them. I'm always smiley and happy these days and I give out positive energy and I don't look down on anyone. Unlike the Hare Krishna movement, I like to please my senses and have a good time, and I don't see what's wrong with that. They think you'll be reincarnated continuously until you convert to Hare Krishna and if you're a bad person in this life you might become a rat or some 'lesser' animal in your next life. Yet they have not one shred of proof that this is the way it is. I understand you don't like science very much from another reply to a post you gave me, but proof or some kind of evidence is necessary to know the real truth behind what's going on. Science is a body of knowledge that keeps on advancing. It doesn't claim to know everything, it doesn't work in absolutes, it continually enhances its knowledge through theorising based on rational thought, testing and retesting and drawing logical conclusions based on concordinate results. It builds up predictable patterns by manipulating variables based on the knowledge that it acquires over time and doesn't preach one way or the other. I think it's great, but yea, it does have it's limitations too. The Moores Method for example isn't scientific at all because it works by manipulating the thoughts in the mind, which are completely subjective and individual to each person, yet I still believe it'll be a massive help to many, just like it's helps me!
I see the religious stories as myths or legends. I mean, everybody knows that King George didn't really slay the dragon, King Arthur didn't really pull the sword out of the stone. They're legends, fables if you will. I think they're no different to religious legends, like Noah or the parting of the Red Sea. I don't think any of that really happened, but some people go a step too far and actually believe that really did happen. And what is the outcome of religion? War and intolerance usually, and downright sexism. Muslim ladies have to walk behind the men, they cover their faces, put into arranged marriages. There are so called honour killings and the list goes on! Atheists may be killing bastards, but they don't do it in the name of atheism. That's the difference. Hitler was a catholic and just look how he turned out! What if he asked a priest for forgiveness, before he shot himself, would he still get into heaven? Some people are into middle earth and role-play and play Dungeons and Dragons, It's fun and it gets them to use their imaginations. That's no problem and they don't make the leap to believing that it's actual reality. I see no contradiction in getting married in Church even though I don't believe in God, because it's just a symbolism which I actually really like. There are some people who are obsessed with Star Trek and get married dressed as Klingons and have a Vulcan marry them. It's cool, they can do what they want to do. Same with us.
When people have an argument about something, they're really in one way, having an agreement. They're agreeing that the thing that they're arguing about exists, and they're just arguing about it. For example, Lets say one person is a man city fan and the other is a man utd fan, and both are arguing that their team is better. They both agree that football exists though don't they? Even a football fan arguing with a non football fan still knows it exists. To deny its existence would be stupid or insane. But we can have reasonable, logical arguments about the existence of God. As for Astrology, yea it exists, but we can argue whether it's real or not, whether it has any bearing on our lives or not can't we? The reason we can deny it is because after how many thousands of years, there still hasn't been one sighting or shred of proof that it's real. After all this time, God has never shown his face or produced any sign that it is undeniable. And that's because it is deniable. And to me, that's because it isn't real. That may seem like a shallow argument, but I believe most truth is simple.
Since I've found my new positive attitude, since I found myself again, after coming off the pills and working on The Moores Method, many doors have opened for me in my life. Not the literal doors of the building, most of which are closed. But good doors, wonderful doors, doors to the beyond. Doors that are hard to shut because they're abstract and don't have handles. They're more like portals really: I'm truly enjoying my job now, whereas before I couldn't even hold down a job and would constantly be stressed or hung over and in trouble because I couldn't think straight to do it! I'm far happier in my day to day life; I'm probably the happiest person I know. I'm far more assertive now and can hold my own in a conversation or debate whereas before I would just be agreeable and apologetic. I don't live with crippling anxiety any more. The other day my longest serving friend came back to Rochdale [he's in the RAF] and I phoned him up and said I'd like for him to pay us a visit. Before I would never have done that, and I would've had to work myself up just to text him! He came over and we had a great laugh, whereas before I would've felt uneasy and inadequate because he's so much more 'successful' than I am. But now I'm just cool with everybody. I have way more energy than I had before, I spring out of bed and my default mood is happy, not depressed. I'm hoping to become an instructor and then even team leader at my job which I could seriously do now because I'm so good at it! The best thing about my new positive attitude is the fact that I don't live in constant fear and worry of what might go wrong any more whereas that's all I used to do. To say I've now got my self esteem back is an understatement - and this may seem big headed, but I think I'm fucking awesome! [And I just love looking in the mirror now lol]
I'm happier than I've ever been right now, happier than I ever thought I would be. I have a real sense of belonging with Stacey and Riley that I never ever had before, and my relationship with Stacey couldn't be better. We have such a great time in each other's company and I can't wait to marry her!
I know you deleted your post on Facebook, probably because you thought it'd be unwise to start bickering with your future brother in law, but it appeared in my junk file, and I'm so glad it did because it's given me the chance to put my story forward so you can better understand where I'm coming from. I know I came across as ignorant and stupid in those posts, and I'm glad you pointed that out to me because I really shouldn't be like that with people and it only makes me look bad, so honestly, thanks. I needed to be told that, and I won't put shit like that on in the future.
But I got to this place in my life now without the help of Astrology or God, and I think it's far better to believe in yourself and the people that you love than a higher power. I actually think that belief in a 'higher power' be it God or Astrology or whatever takes away from what we really need, which is self belief. Again, maybe it's just me and I don't get it, so please do tell me what I'm missing. Rather than just having a closed mind to all that, I prefer to think I've got a 'concluded' mind; I've thought about it, and now dismissed it because I didn't find it helpful. But I'll remain open to an epilogue in my thoughts on it, if the epilogue is a song worth singing.
On a deeper level, I think the point of life is to enjoy it and to make a contribution, however small, to mankind. To live your life on purpose, with a sense of purpose. As you think so shall you be. You act upon what you think about. If you're thinking about what's missing, about the scarcity in your life, about what's wrong, about what you don't have, then that's where your thoughts are and you have act on what's missing. And through your thoughts you create your reality, and you create more of what is missing. You become what you think about. If you want love in your life, you need to send love out, be love. If you squeeze an orange, it doesn't matter what time of day it is or the circumstances, or the instrument you use, you will always get orange juice. You can only get out what is inside. And if we extend that metaphor to ourselves, and someone squeezes you, and puts pressure on you or says something you find objectionable and out of you comes anger or hate or bitterness, it isn't because of who did the squeezing, or the circumstances even if we like to think it is, it's because that's what was inside. And what's inside is always within our own control.
The purpose of life is really simple for me; we can't take anything with us when we die, when when we leave the planet and our bodies turn to dust we lose everything we had. So if we can't have anything, the purpose of life is to give. The purpose must have something to do with giving rather than getting. The purpose of life is to enrich the lives of others in some way. The measure of life will not be in the duration or the acquisitions of your life, but in the donations of your life. To touch the lives of others, to in some way have your presence in the world make this world a better place. I do think that what goes around comes around, and that by making ourselves better people and living to the fullest, we become more able to give and contribute to others. I do believe in immortality, to a degree. It's not in ourselves though, it's with caring more about someone else, your loved ones or children, than you do about yourself, so you don't have to fear death because you create a better life for them to carry on after you've gone. And to do that. you have to live your life on purpose and to be the best person you can be. And to do it with style and charisma.
I hope you read this letter before I get there today Richard, and that you don't think of me as so closed minded any more, so I can 'sit better with you' today lol. I think through all I've learned, read and practiced and written myself, I really have grown up, finally.
I'm glad I got to write this. I got on with you pretty good last time we met, you were cool, and I'm really looking forward to having a great dinner with your family today.
All the best,
Another Richard ​

 

Was gonna edit that last post to make it more readable, with spaces for paragraphs etc, but cant

 

Der iz naught suckh thang az naught damm arlieans!!!!!!

 

i don't believe in astrology, either, it's too broad and general. i do, however, believe in predestination.

 

:iagree:

 

What 's predestination? Is it basically the same as fate?

 

There has been a huge misunderstanding about astrology for the past 100 years or so. It became very commercialized, and for that reason I don't blame you for believing in the modern astrology bunk.

What a lot of people don't understand, is that you have more than one sign. The Sun sign is the most common because it's the easiest to find. There are also signs for the moon, and all of the planets, countless comets, etc.
Usually if you feel that you don't fit in with the description of your sun sign, it's because you have many other signs that define you. Your sun sign is just a minor aspect of you.

If astrology is used correctly, it should only be used as a tool of awareness of your mental well-being, and physical health. It should never be used to conform to a description because you feel it's your born duty to do so.

 

Astrology, linking one's life and future to tarot and numbers through psychics, etc, are all merely based on constructs of generalizations.

 

I can't think of any belief system that has been more thoroughly proven wrong. Except perhaps belief in an invisible magic sky god.

 

The popular current understanding of astrology is crack-pot I agree. It has been hijacked to fill columns in the back of gossip magazines with hopes and dreams.
Astrology in it's original context includes a blend of old religion and supposition. I can believe that certain luna cycles or astrological events have an effect on my mood or wellbeing in a way that they effect weather or atmospheric pressure and therefore some of us are more prone to happiness or depression under certain conditions.
Star signs I see as markers which signify our time of birth. I personally place little belief in that being significant to my personality or fortune.
In general certain aspects I can rationally believe, but the commercial hocus-pocus is generally a bit of fun.

Madesh

 

Seems more like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Possibly, I think most of us are prone to a bit of that. The way we perceive and react shapes our lives, it may be sometimes illogical but that's human nature.

 

i used to fucking hate astrology - -
but i like it a lot now, seeing it as ideas to start a conversation with people, or to start thinking