All knowledge is suggestion...

...comments?

 

*murmuring*

*mans' voice* Down in front!

*lights dim*

(no, just kidding)

Really, though, I think all knowledge is derived from suggestion, and sometimes, the suggestions made are wrong. However, sometimes, they're quite accurate, and that knowledge can be derived from knowledge as well. I think that a fair portion of our lives is based on the real reality, and that the other part is just based off of the misconceptions that we recieve.

 

...the real reality?

 

Reality as it is, rather than as it is percieved by us.

 

I don't understand the question. Do I fail the test?

 

How shall we know this reality, if we cannot perceive it?

 

Reality exists objectively. If that is not agreed upon nothing more should be bothered to be discussed. A flower is a flower in itself (it exists without you percieving it), a flower is a 'flower' in your mind. The flower is objective, the 'flower' is subjective. (Now I am not so sure flower is a word, oh well....)

Hikaru Zero says "as it is percieved by us." He clearly believes reality can be percieved. The question would be how do we experience it or percieve it? --Objectively or Subjectively?

If it were possible to view this objective reality objectively (that is to say a singular, [accurate] perception) then it would merely be a singular subjective perception that was truely accurate. Meaning, the flower as you percieve it is ACTUALLY how the flower exists in itself and ultimately, in objective subjectivity [perception].

The workings of the sentient being's brain and sense organs strongly suggest Subjective Perception, however. Perhaps if all beings were exactly the same an objective reality could be completely agreed upon, but it would still be subjective, because reality exists, ultimately, objectively despite perception.

 

thumontico

Reality exists objectively. If that is not agreed upon nothing more should be bothered to be discussed. A flower is a flower in itself (it exists without you percieving it), a flower is a 'flower' in your mind. The flower is objective, the 'flower' is subjective. (Now I am not so sure flower is a word, oh well....)

Agree

Hikaru Zero says "as it is percieved by us." He clearly believes reality can be percieved. The question would be how do we experience it or percieve it? --Objectively or Subjectively?

Yes.. percieved and defined..A flower is only our name for the 3rd hand perception of an objective structure.

If it were possible to view this objective reality objectively (that is to say a singular, [accurate] perception) then it would merely be a singular subjective perception that was truely accurate. Meaning, the flower as you percieve it is ACTUALLY how the flower exists in itself and ultimately, in objective subjectivity [perception].

All information of objective reality is reduced to electro-chemical data [by the senses]to be processed by MIND.
All is 3rd hand..
EXCEPT..I REASON THEREFORE I EXIST.
That is FIRST HAND.

The workings of the sentient being's brain and sense organs strongly suggest Subjective Perception, however. Perhaps if all beings were exactly the same an objective reality could be completely agreed upon, but it would still be subjective, because reality exists, ultimately, objectively despite perception.

What if we can work out..using reason and technology..or through the paranormal...Or a combination of the two..
How to percieve FIRST HAND..that which is objective.
Occam thinks we can.


Occam

 

'Objective' knowledge is never complete. Its bits and pieces suggest a whole. So this becomes the suggestion of 'reality'- the unity of all things.

 

MNS

Agree
And 'All things' are reality.
the totality.

Again occam proposes..we KNOW nothing but
GOGITO ERGO

The unity of all things is a description without contradiction.

Occam

 

"If I do not believe as you believe, it proves that you do not believe as I believe, and this is all that it proves."
Thomas Paine
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
&
“There are two way to live your life, as though nothing is a miracle, or as though everything is a miracle.”
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Whether you believe in God or not does not matter so much, whether you believe in Buddha or not does not matter so much. You must lead a good life.
-His Holiness the Dalai Lama
"The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine."
H. J. Haldene
"If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't." Lyall Watson

 

"Reality is that which, when one stops believing in it, does not go away."

P K Dick

Thus to understand reality. One must first stop believing in it, And all human descriptions of it.
Then observe what does not go away.
[And just about ALL human descriptions go away.]

"A miracle is an event we do not yet understand"

Relativity and the basic nature of 3space reality was a miracle before Einstein, And a fact after.
Einstein was a man.



Occam

 

Indeed, contradiction only exists within human parameters, where frame of mind is conditioned to cut the picture into pieces, and focus on 'parts' as individual entities, thereby ignoring the interdependence of all things. And we have no 'common sense', no common way of looking at the world, because a world of 'parts' will always carry subjective inflection. The solution is to go beyond black and white, on and off, up and down. Realize that all knowledge, all 'parts', are suggesting something far greater.

 

knowledge is the perception of an object identical to the object itself. seeing something clearly as it is, for example.

 

How can a perception suggest anything beyond itself?

 

knowledge is the perception of an object identical to the object itself. seeing something clearly as it is, for example.

Seeing things as they are is relative. I will always see something from where I am, and that is a different place than anyone else. So I must always see something differently than you do.
I think our own unique life experiences add to the perspective we see things from. The concept of seeing something clearly as it is, without any subjective influences, is something I view as being very rarely achieved. It is far more common that we see things as we are, not as they are.

 

I would agree with you that each of us have our particular perspective and that this does not change the validity of the statement as to the origin of knowledge

 

Mati

Unfortunately we are able to percieve with only the secondhand data stream of the senses. [at this time]

Thus reality is an agreement without any contradiction 'we can percieve'
And it is the only way of seeing reality that works...so far.
That our agreement allows us to alter our perception of reality...
Without contradiction.

Occam