Women and their games

She is saying that about guys who go on and on about "I'm such a nice guy and the women just won't have sex with me" And they are manipulative and not really nice at all. But they claim to be nice.

Like you, I am neither nice nor bad. Sometimes I am nice and sometimes I am not so nice... like most people.

 

As usual Daisymae, you said just what I think only you said it better.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug88HO2mg44"]Backstreet Boys - Quit Playing Games (With My Heart) - YouTube

 

Couldn't find the original quote but ultimately this is where the bs lies.

I am NOT

a) a criminal
b) horribly obese
c) mean-spirited
d) an abuser

or anything alarming. I simply may not socialize in the same manner you'd expect another. But this is no reason for me to be aliennated this hard. I don't think you get it -- women are never judged this hardcore. More or less, they can be themselves AND the man will pick up the slack.

(Because he knows/feels she can always go elsewhere if shit ain't to her liking/because as the ladie this is how our society tends to bend). Women have no fucking idea the amount of self-work self-worth self-whatever men must go through, if they are not already naturals (and that's a small % of the population).

You girls are being horribly naive. Look, most men (me included), are NOT natural "Hey, I just saw you over there and thought you were cute..." type people. But we are given pretty much only that as a window to get to know y'all, because _____________ (all of your inefficiencies are never put at test).

I'm stuck with stupid social patterns that don't work for me, and often times probably make me look bad. I have no idea. I DO know I don't have the opposite sex hitting on me regardless to make up for it.

the solution has to be 'me' because the problem (and system) will not change. The problem won't even admit they don't do shit, or that the opp. sex has to work on themselves so much harder just to get RECIPROCATION -- are you fuucking kidding me. How can you read that and think this is anywhere near 50/50. :| You're a fucking liar if you can say anything else.

 

Stop blaming your shitty social skills on the women who don't want to talk to you.

 

The solution has to be you because you are the one with the problem You are not (only) a hopeless romantic but mostly hopeless. I'm not saying the situation is not anything like you described but you do seem to make it worse by projecting it on the whole opposite sex. There is no need in looking at the whole opposite sex unless you would be looking to seduce the general opposite sex (or what we all would like perhaps: be seduced by the opposite sex ). Do you want to hit it off with a nice girl (nice in the original objective sense) or actually prefer to be hit up like girls get hit up by 'alpha males'?
I don't think the majority here pictured you as mean spirited, abusive or creepy etc. but although your way of socializing may not be a reason for you to be alienated this hard, it simply may be a reason for others. If we like it or not our communication both nonverbal and verbal make the biggest first impressions.

 

I'm a woman, and I don't feel/see/recognize Kok as projecting on me, or our gender. He is describing his situation, and his discontent.

He says we woman have it easy and don't have as much to prove or as much work to do get approval or good responses. I beg to differ. My marriage is in shambles. Men are very hard on me, and it hurts. So I'm failing too !!!!!!!!

Men that are naturally charming are very lucky, because they do connect with females. Yet, these same men also don't have a goal. It's an incident of nice behavior, in which they take the opportunity to make someone feel good. Maybe it'll lead to 2 incidences? It's basically easy math.

 

It's nearly impossible to advise someone about this from a distance. We don't know what other people see, when they meet you in person.

 

Maybe thats why you're not getting any.

 

Especially work on becoming b and you're set

 

horribly obese though...

 

This is why you struggle, your mindset is all wrong, and you will project negatively, giving wrong vibes off.

You are already blaming women, citing them as the "problem" instead of seeing them as individuals.

Men in general don't have to work harder "just" to get reciprocation at all - only those who project poorly and negatively will have to go that extra mile - and there is a reason for that - because they send out the wrong vibes. women who project negatively and poorly will also have to work harder.

Then chemistry comes into play - pheromones - if there is no sexual attraction there then you have to work harder (but so do women who are looking for a man and the men they are interested in are not sexually attracted to them to begin with)


It is a 50/50 thing. Based on what you have projected in this thread - the way you see women as the problem - I doubt hardly any would be interested in you. If you are the same in real life, and women in general don't find sexual chemistry with you, this is your answer.

 

I would add to Inca's assessment one very basic observation: you are describing the behavior of the set of women you have desired as mates. If, for instance, you permitted yourself to sleep with the homeliest most desperate women on the planet (and they do exist) you would have no trouble. You can surely find a chick so hard-up that she would be grateful for your cock.

It seems instead that the women you would LIKE to pursue do not respond to your level of attractiveness/way of presenting yourself or whatever, but you cannot generalize that to all women. If you respond by saying you have no boundaries and no standards, I will not believe you. If you respond by trying to tell me that the women you pursued were "definitely in or below your league" I will not believe you because your experience has proven otherwise.

When viewed in this light, the problem is in YOUR mind (which others have pointed out) namely in the mismatch between the caliber of girl you are capable of pulling down and the caliber of girl you want/try to pull down.

It is ABSURD to complain about the self-worth/self-work issue that men have to go through. Women in this society are completely enslaved by unhealthy standards of beauty and images of femininity. The psychosis absolutely works in the other direction.

Women can be and are choosier about their mates not because "that's how our society tends to bend" but for very basic biological reasons. Think about this species' mating patterns. Men pass on their genes most efficiently by impregnating as many mates as possible, but for a woman a mating event entails a 9-month commitment (during which she is precluded from having another reproductive event), so the female strategy is to select for the most desirable mate she can. This shit is in our DNA. Both groups are trying to get laid by mates they consider to meet their standards, it's merely that that set is smaller for women than it is for men.

I am a man. I am not a crazy player and don't get laid that often. I just lost 45 pounds and thereby upped my value in the dating scene but still don't have great "game." BUT I RECOGNIZE THIS STATE OF AFFAIRS AS NATURAL AND FINE. Quit being bitter about it.

 

It's just a vicious circle. The way you feel about yourself is what matters, because that's how you'll treat a lady. But if you don't have a lady and feel you keep getting wronged, you start getting down on yourself. Then the whole world can start to seem against you. Things that don't even have anything to do with you begin to seem like personal insults.

You go stark raving mad, like Michael Myers in Halloween. You've tried so hard to make sense of women, to please them, that you've programmed yourself into a soulless android. You are supposed to be the nice guy, but you can't be mistaken -- your intentions were pure -- so they must not like nice guys. Your emotions die. You think you can hide it, even from yourself, but no...they sense the creep within. Inside your brain, where all of their faces and all their personalities have morphed into one empty shell of a human being.

 

I was venting. Raga you may have some good points. I could be shooting too high, thus having very good reasons for frustration. But also, I am aware of who I am as a person. I have a peculiar vibe/relationship with women, I think -- (perpetuated by the mental hole I've dug? sure). I am also saying ladies, don't have YOU problems when it comes to attraction. Maybe her boobs aren't big enough but they are very measurable and tangible points. But maybe calgirl's right too. I THINK IRL i don't project, or at least not on purpose. I try to forget all that, use what I've learned and just socialize successfully.

The good news is I'm starting to come into my own socially. Even... not feeling too nice and having that work for me.

A piece of bad news (and the spark for the last post), was I think I got stood up by a chic who ASKED ME to hang this weekend. :/

Was it the 'sexy fly lady' comment? Was it because I sent a 2nd message before a response? Are those two even that big of deal-breakers?

I never heard from her... Do girls change their mind about a guy this easy? These are the kind of frustrations I'm not a fan of.

 

Maybe it's because she thought it was really lazy of you to abbreviate sexy when it's just one more letter.

In all seriousness, you aren't basing the whole of your experiences with women with people you meet on the internet are you?? She's on the internet!!she didn't reject you. She probably sent 3 Other guys the same message and now she's going with the first that responded. Do you think women that find dates on the internet are particularly choosy?

Go outside, find women there.

 

^ someone I've met before. IRL acquaintance. not internet love. :|

bwaha. don't you see me trying to do just that>?

 

Nope, nothing wrong with two messages. Nothing wrong with saying sexy fly lady. However, on first impression, it does cast on me a little confusion that you were just seeing the first message. Were these texts? So when you sent the second message, it could be that she got hypersensitive about it. Some people can be passive in how they express irritation/anger/disappointment.

In any case, certainly not a deal breaker.

Yet, on the other hand !!!!!!!! It could be nothing at all. You're being yourself, and that's all you should ever be. She had a flaky moment, or maybe she is habitually a flake.

Men can be too. In fact, a longtime friend/lover does this to me on occasion. I don't like it and I tell him. Yet, when we are having a good time, it's easy to forget about it. . Shit like this happens to us all. Part of being social is having a thick skin, and I do my best not to be the high-maintenance type.

 

This is the only non-high-and-mighty reply I've read in the whole thread because you're speaking from your own experience rather than being advicey. Thank you. In spite of the fact that we come from wildly different ends of life experience, I consider you a cool chick.

However, it's still incomplete. The supposed "coping mechanisms for relentless and constant pursuit" are only needed because women by-and-large don't do the pursuing.

That's the original "game" -----> leaving the pursuing up to men. Twirling your locks is not pursuing. It's not a clear cut show of interest. It takes on no risk of rejection.

It's a which-is-it sort of scenario. You can't blame men for both pursuing and not pursuing. And that's exactly what feminism does. Men are literally damned if they do, damned if they don't. As aptly alluded to by VG:

And women are never in the wrong, ever.

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Edit: lode's and hotwater's "high and dry" posts were pretty cool, too.

 

"Let's hang" is not an invitation for sex. If I had a male friend who I enjoyed hanging out with but did not want anything further, and he responded with "sexy lady" it would imply to me that he is expecting more than I am willing to give.

Of course I do not know if this woman wants to give more, it is just my own slant on things.

Perhaps also you are seeing every woman who you come into contact with as a sexual challenge rather than friendship and getting to know them first.

I have male friends who are cool and I can laugh with but would not want to take it any further and if they did it would change the dynamics and cause problems. Some women might just want to be friends with you (and through that friendship you might meet more women, such as their friends, expanding your scope.)