Help with writing a screenplay

Discussion in 'Writers Forum' started by unedited, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. unedited

    unedited Member

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    Naw man, just saying they were writing from their own world perspective, and idealising the future based on where they were looking from.

    I'm not even going to get into the Star Trek vs Star Wars thing. Srsly? SRSLY?!

    A srsly silly debate.

    Because clearly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture thrashes every other sci-fi universe in existence put together. With all its warships demilitarised.

    :daisy:
     
  2. odonII

    odonII O

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    I just wondered which side of the fence you thought they were on.

    Me neither.

    Your 'one better' e.g seems interesting.............on paper.
     
  3. unedited

    unedited Member

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    Oh I see. No I don't think they were thinking about being on one side of the fence or another. They were idealising - imagining what their society would be like in the future with genuine optimism. Taking the best values of the world around them and making those values the ones which their imagined future society was based on.


    lol tell me about it. There's talk of a film but from what I've read about the development... oh please god I hope they don't do it. They'll screw it RIGHT UP. They're the sorts of books that are very much best left as books.

    :)
     
  4. odonII

    odonII O

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    Your story arc didn't quite match that did it? :rolleyes:

    I'm sure they will, and I'm sure JJ, Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks and Tom Cruise will be onboard. Maybe Will Smith, too.
     
  5. Fairlight

    Fairlight Banned

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    Why is it that most sci-fi shows and films seem to be set in a quasi totalitarian mindset/system.That's why I kind of outgrew them.They're usually set in very militaristic,top-down societies.
     
  6. Fairlight

    Fairlight Banned

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    With very little art,music and literature.Is this the future?
     
  7. unedited

    unedited Member

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    What story arc? You mean the bit where I mentioned it was slightly patronising and morally superior? It fits. I was just trying to say it in a nicer way.

    w00t just when I've tried so hard to avoid offending you. Stuff it. Star Trek is the glass eyed happy clappy sci-fi for people who don't like sci-fi. It's the Emmerdale Farm of sci-fi. It's Dr Who, the Matt Smith series, with a bigger spaceship and an American cast. It's science fiction George W Bush could enjoy. And understand. It's nice, unthreatening, unimaginative, derivative, unscientific, pointless, condescending wannabe 'science fiction'.

    Happy now? (were you just trolling from the start?)

    Don't make me cry. Because it will be true.

    Quite possibly. Either that or guns and explosions and stuff that's cool to fourteen year old ritalin addicts are considered more marketable than... art n shit.

    But yes, most sci-fi is about fighting the baddies. With guns and lasers and laserguns. BIG laserguns. :D
     
  8. odonII

    odonII O

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    I meant: I had an idea for a Star Treck spin off set back in 1780s on one of the first US warships - sailing round the seven seas fighting the British, taking democracy and freedom to other nations through the weapons of peace and philosophy (because that's what you do, right?).

    Which, to me, isn't the same as:Taking the best values of the world around them and making those values the ones which their imagined future society was based.

    No. I just didn't want you bastardising what I think ST is about.
    I didn't want it sullied with some half arsed 'stick it to America' clap-trap.
    I suppose if it was 200 years since Picard, and the fabric was fraying a little - it could be a good idea.
    I wouldn't know how you would set that up since they have done several 'alternative realities' in past series.
    Setting it up in the past, on a ship, presumes that the idea of a ship wondering around...erm, where? Earth? Is leading to ships in space with the same types of missions. It didn't quite work like that. Limitation 1.
    These people are fighting the British? Limitation 2.
    It's supposed to link into ST history? It sounds like massive leaps of the imagination is involved. Limitation 3.

    It's called 'Emmerdale' and I like Emmerdale. It was good this week. Gennie dying etc. Really good car crash. ...
    Anyhoo...
    I don't think TNG DS9 etc are 'happy-clappy'
    But I admit that it's a soap opera/drama in space.
    It certainly isn't high concept such as 'The culture'.
    But to me that would be very boring.
    But hey, I like seeing the value of trust and understanding through the medium of an alien being marooned with a star ship officer.
    Sue me.

    Are you dissing Dr Who now? :frown:

    If you want to reinvent the wheel, that's fine. Good luck.

    I'd wonder why you would want to do any kind of treatment of ST if you think it is so bad.
     
  9. unedited

    unedited Member

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    The writers took the best values of the world around them and applied it to their future.

    So you can do the same and apply it to the past. So it IS the same thing, set in the past instead of the future. And don't even think about telling me the past wasn't like that. Star Trek's future is overly romanticised, so it's fair game to overly romanticise the past.


    Unluckily, we don't own the shows we love. I don't want JJ Abrams bastardising Star Wars (any more than Lucas already did with the prequels which were about as much as I could reasonably stomach).

    Tough. Sorry but that's the way it is. I don't care much any more about what you think ST is about.

    And anyway - Where the hell did you get the 'stick it to America' stuff from? The first thing I mentioned was for an American ship going round the world doing Americanising stuff. Like The Enterprise goes around Americanising the galaxy.

    What you're saying is you think your idea's good. Oh I am SO shocked. :|

    Yadayafayada. Yeah they'd be sailing round the world. Islands, different cultures, priates, diplomatic missions, merchant stations, slave ships... all the classic ingredients.

    British like the Romulans - a rival power... classic ingredient.

    Massive leaps of imagination involved. HAVE YOU SEEN STAR TREK??!!

    The special effects were amazing.


    They so are.

    And I never said there was anything wrong with that.

    Science.

    wtf is this about an alien marooned with a star ship officer? Is that what your idea was? Like a static Star Trek sitcom? Oh.

    Yes. It's shit for kids. Utter drivel. Star Trek thrives on drivel but usually (apart from 'red matter' bs) it's reasonable drivel.

    Dr Who is UTTER drivel. Might as well sit there blurbling your lips. It's infantile television at its worst. It's teletubbies in a tardis.

    Star Trek is all about reinventing the wheel. That's how it works. The whole show. Sue them.

    And christ almighty - you got took exception to some throwaway idea I mentioned in passing then got hyperdefensive because I didn't show the deference to what YOU think Star Trek's about, and started picking at every post I made.

    So I point out that Star Trek is at heart cheap assed shit with severe cultural bias. I like cheap assed shit and the cultural bias is amusing enough, but it is what it is. I try being conciliatary, I try saying it nicely, I try being nice.... but in the end it's never going to work because you apparently think you own the rights to decide what is and isn't proper 'Star Trek' and to be quite honest it wound me up to the point where I ain't bothering to express a different opinion nicely.

    okokok I GET IT. You have very strong ideas about what should be allowed as a Star Trek idea *slow hand clap* but jesushejebus chill out dude. I only mentioned the idea for a historical take as a quick aside, it was meant to be a laugh. And even if it wasn't, there was no need to get so snarkey.

    Can we shake hands (electronically) and agree that we have different takes on it and move on? It really really really isn't worth it.

    :2thumbsup:

    [Edit: The rant at Star Trek was more me just venting. I know it's called Emmerdale, and was even a bit gutted Genny died - her and Nikhil were the second coolest couple on TV, after Tracy and Rob on Corrie of course. Dr Who is fine for people who like that sort of thing, not me. But it was like you were trying to provoke me into slagging Star Trek off - like you were looking for criticisms of Star Trek in my posts, where none existed. So in the end I decided if you wanted me to have a pop at the show, I'd have a pop at the show. So I did. It's what you wanted, it's certainly what was being asked for]

    [no offense]
     
  10. odonII

    odonII O

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    Well, the Enterprise doesn't go around Americanising the galaxy.
    The idea that America goes around the world Americanising everywhere is a cliche, and I would imagine a terribly unfair characterisation.
    To me that has negative connotations.
    Would the ship be named USS Mission Accomplished?

    I appreciate you could. However your first premise was about 'spreading democracy' which isn't the ST mantra. I thought the idea was kinda like a prequel, or an origins story. I didn't like the premise of that - especially with how you framed it.

    It wasn't my idea, it was Desert-rats

    'Its 200 years later that Piccard's time , there is not much left of the federation , petty fighting , ect. They have used up the resorces of a bunch of planets , all they have left is a few beaten up star ships .'

    Ok.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoM_kPGfkw0"]Epic of Gilgamesh from Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Darmok" - YouTube



    It was, yes. Is still can be from time to time. I would imagine we would agree a lot more about this than ST. I still like the idea of the show, though, and there has been a fair few decent episodes.

    You don't have to show deference. You could be fair. I didn't think you were being fair. We might have gone a little to far with this, though.
    Like you say, it was a throwaway idea.

    I'm sorry if that is how I seemed. Not my intention.
    Lets say it was constructive criticism.

    Sure... :)*shakes hand*
     
  11. unedited

    unedited Member

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    ok, we'll have to agree to disagree about the whole americanising thing - to me that's what star trek is about (although it isn't a criticism) and to you they don't do that (and it would be a criticism).

    and lmao at myself - you're right it was desert-rat's idea... i got a little lost in the back n forth there.

    cool picard clip dude - you did well to find one that wasn't a story from shakespeare (me and a friend used to play a drink/drug game based on shakespeare references in tng)

    no worries, and apologies from me - i think i got as defensive as i was accusing you of being.

    ;)

    it's all good.

    (...I'm still ok to be hating on JJ Abrams aren't I?) :D
     
  12. odonII

    odonII O

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    Sure. I didn't like some of the choices he made for the film. It did feel like a man who had spent a bit of time watching a couple of episodes, and a few films - it was alright, I suppose. I understand nobody is going to see another TNG movie. The second one looks better.
     
  13. Lostthoughts

    Lostthoughts Thostloughts

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    I didn't read a word of page three, but I'd like to go on record saying that "Super 8" was one of the stupidest movies I've ever seen. (that's JJ Abrams, right? Is that who we're talking about now?)
     
  14. unedited

    unedited Member

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    Hell YES.

    Let's just hate on JJ Abrams for a bit.

    Actually, to get slightly back onto topic of writing...

    ...anyone know how Lost was written? I found it really interesting when I found out.

    What they did was set up the first few episodes with a bunch of characters and enigmas... the numbers, the interconnected backstories, the mysterious island, etc. And then they used the feedback from the online fan forums to decide what was going to happen in future episodes.

    Now, in some ways I can't help but admire the experimental attitude, and the commitment to allow fan interaction with plot. Like a democratic storytelling.

    But for me the problem was it meant a loss of focus, consistency. I prefer writers to present a story to me whole - with a clear idea of what the story is and why. Characters should remain true to themselves throughout - that doesn't mean they can't change or develop but it's gotta be the same 'person'.

    Lost ended up just doing random stuff, because it was going with ideas from people who had totally different ideas of what the show was 'about'.

    (Yeah I know it was really popular, but then so is Harry Potter. I love the marketing, the smarts of the concept... but Harry Potter - books and films - is godawful writing).
     
  15. odonII

    odonII O

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    So when they said: 'It's not about purgatory' and then 3-4 series later and the finale arrived, and it was - we have 'the fans' to blame for that complete cop out?
     
  16. unedited

    unedited Member

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    basically yes, that's why it contradicted itself so much.
     
  17. Lostthoughts

    Lostthoughts Thostloughts

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    This is really interesting if it's true, but wikipedia says nothing about any of this.

    Do you have a link?
     
  18. unedited

    unedited Member

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    No I heard it in some interviews a while back. They did similar with Heroes. I will search and try and find links.
     
  19. odonII

    odonII O

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    Make sure it is not: we took the thoughts and opinions of the audience on board....but...
     
  20. unedited

    unedited Member

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    nah it was a radio interview i heard it on...

    ...we're talking years ago now though.
     

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