New Egyptian constitution may seek to ban all religious parties from politics

That's not an accurate portrayal. In my K-12 school, clubs that were religious in nature were completely allowed, and prayer took place. They were just asked that they remain respectful of other people's views and not actively campaign their faith while in class or on campus.

They were certainly allowed to congregate though during lunch.

 

Tell that to the labor movement in the USA, the civil rights movement in the USA, the American disability rights movement, the gay-rights movement happening slowly but surely today and the founding of the USA and the US constitution that made all of that possible.

Nobody claimed that the USA was perfect, but compared to a lot of other countries it's infrastructure was created whereas other countries did not come together, got stuck in tribal warfare and are stuck as 3rd world countries today.

All of that was politics, law, and chaos. Faith/Religion might've played a role on the sidelines with influencing morals and feeling and inspiration of certain laws, but it's also been the foundation of inspiration for many serial killers, rapists, bigotry in both sexism, racism, and holding back scientific advancements because some religious figure FELT a certain medicine or procedure violated a religious tenant; and it very well might've, but individuals have that right to violate a faith's tenants if they sincerely don't follow that faith.

 

It's an accurate portrayal of Government. When you get government involved it creates all this extra crap. As I said, you can't say religion should stay out of government, then want government to get involved in religion.

Well, I mean y'all can say what you say; but it makes no sense.

 

And I'm not saying that.

Government shouldn't be involved in religion AND VICE-VERSA!

Maybe someone else has said the contrary but it wasn't me.

I should also clarify that morals and religion are not the same thing to me. So that being said you need to understand that context when I make my posts about this dividing line between government and social morals (these are morals more based on logic or common sense rather than inspiration or argumentative morals made from a belief) VS religious morals (these are beliefs or morals which might be logical fallacies, but are made because a belief in God and what he wants for you).

I don't believe laws should force people to violate their religious tenants though, that is unconstitutional in my opinion.

 

I agree. Sorry if I got you confused, or came off as mean. I don't think Religion should go with government at all. But most of that is the eveangelical voter block, but that makes up a tiny fraction of Republicans. But I think it goes both ways- if they respect your religion you should respect theirs.

 

Agreed, but you gotta admit that fraction of the Republican party has been DOMINATING state legislation and media attention.

Look at all the obstacles like Virginia governor put in restriction wise for abortion procedures.

Same with north Carolina and Ohio. Anti-freedom is all the Republicans are about lately.

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What government does is come in with a bunch of heavily armed monkeys and start saying "what goes where". Then they say "who is allowed to come in and who isn't allowed to leave." Finally they start taking over every possible way a society has of communicating and start telling everyone "what to say and think."

Therefore many religeous people and organizations get involved because they feel they have no choice.

Personally I'm of the opinion of "Sod all of them". Don't pay 1p in taxes at all.. use nothing from the government and swim across the channel when you feel like leaving.

 

Stick your 2000 words up your queen's ass. Three numbers are all that is needed ; 9-11. Support the Suisse!!!!! Once again leading the way in prudent civilized behavior.

 

Fair enough. They shouldn't bitch when there is push back though.

 

Personally I'm of the opinion of "Sod all of them". Don't pay 1p in taxes at all.. use nothing from the government and swim across the channel when you feel like leaving.[/QUOTE]

So Leave !

 

Rational discussion isnt really your strongest suit is it !

 

What a crock of shit. Fucking foreign aid has been trying to buy friendships long before Obama became POTUS. The U.S.'s biggest welfare child is Israel, and that's every year since 1948. Raygun gave Saddam Hussein the chemical weapons that Shrub used as an excuse to invade Iraq. Shrub was giving Pakistan and Afghanistan billion$ the whole eight years he was POTUS. And the aid Egypt has been getting has been going on for at least thirty years. The ignorance that you moron cons exhibit is mind boggling.

 

Living in the past. Blame it on Bush while barry sells the farm. Ahem ,hangover , are you another one of these euros soon to be controlled by sharia and not only submitting but essentially asking to be dominated?

 

And I am!!

Unfortunately I've got a big old mean and nasty government making it difficult for me. But rest assured that come next November the Queen, David Cameron, CCTV and all the rest of you barmy biggies can get stuffed as my bottom walks out of the nation for good.

 

I'm sure you'll be missed. Where do you plan on heading?

 

I just have to point out...that part of the reason we have crazy, ideological Christians who constantly try to get their influence into Man's law (akaolitics)....is because of the time where government totally allowed parents to shelter their children in certain kinds of educational concepts like evolution.

So while I believe religion and politics should be as separate as possible, in retrospect since my last post, I do have to say that the civil law should insist that children need exposure to both evolution and their religious beliefs as well.

You have the freedom to choose what you believe, but I don't agree with the freedom of the individual to shelter or restrict information from others which causes those individuals to have restricted choices on their freedom and that includes parents upon their own children. (Because it's not equal to have a child exposed to only one type of belief or idea during certain critical periods of brain development).

Also from a strict religious argument, that while unpleasant to acknowledge, parents and children are not given a certainty that both will end up in the same place in the afterlife, in fact Revelation in the bible implies the opposite, in the sense that each individual is judged solo.

I have noticed that religious parents press upon their kids their beliefs because they fear this happening, but really they need to accept it and move on. What their children choose is what they choose so enjoy them in the hear and now, and that's all you can do. But of course they can't compartmentalize this and so you get the indoctrination we've seen throughout history.

 

I see your point but I'd take it further. When we speak of Religion we are usually referring to the organised religions. Spirituality is a much wider area & is very much an individual experience. In fairness one may well experience this within the spectrum of the organised 'official' religions. I wonder if it should be seen as a Human Right that no one is indoctrinated,admitted to,any religion untill they are of an age to make their own,mature, decision ?

 

Hm, I don't know about this. I was raised a devout Roman Catholic, and practiced it most of my life (even went to seminary a couple of years). In the last few years however, I've hardly been to church at all (except for special occasions) and am more agnostic than anything else. I certainly don't feel I was put upon by being raised in a religious home; and ultimately have had the liberty to make my own decisions regarding faith and morals.

It also might be a bit of an overreach to forbid how parents raise their children - in this case it might involve forbidding a Jewish boy from being Bar Mitzvah'd or a Christian infant from being baptized. When one gets older I believe they will have the opportunity to make their own choices; but in the meantime is it not the purview of the parents?

 

if that is the case, looks like the middle east is slowly opening up it's eyes from the dark ages

 

Fair point MacFuddy. I too was raised in a very similar way,only difference was that it was a lot less tolerant than your experience sounds. I was schooled by Irsh Brothers & Nuns,was repeatedly told that Protestants were bad,that entering a Protestant Church was a Mortal sin,that I should avoid all contact with Protestants.

So ,boys being boys,we formed gangs (believing God was on our side) from ages 6 thru till 10 & would attack protestant kids as they came out of their neighbouring school (I don't believe it was coincidence that we got outa school 5 minutes before they did). More than once we were chased by Police ! The Protestant Kids felt the same way about us too.

My circumstances changed after that,I made a lot of 'other faith' friends & learned to be open minded. This was early to mid 1960s. The Adults around us knew what we were doing,only response from them I can recall was amusement ! Of course its not like that today. I'm no longer a practising Catholic .

Maybe if Kids are given a good education in other faiths,as part of the school curriculum, so that they can make informed choices & be allowed by Elders to persue them ?