right wing cons threaten to default on national debt

No business could remain in business without making reasoned and rational economic decisions, although a great many persons seem to feel that government are immune to the consequences of making irration or unreasonable economic decisions.

There is always the option to pay as you go and not purchase insurance.

Perhaps so, perhaps not.

Does it?

 

That's one case, but pre-ObamaScare you didn't HAVE to apply for health insurance. Post-ObamaScare, the only real change is that a fewer number will HAVE to pay out of their own pocket.

How much do you feel would be a reasonable cost?

Then you're saying that they made the wrong choice. These are temporary effects, and of course the local community and neighbors have the freedom to become involved to take action they feel is most beneficial to them as a whole if they wish.

 

How about calling it a debt limit? And how about making it an adherable limit to what government can spend, with the only allowance being a temporary increase which must be repaid within a time limit?

Not raising the debt ceiling does not stop tax revenues being collected, it simply means that spending has to be reduced and contained to within the limits of the revenue being collected.

More rationally speaking, the debt ceiling is the equivalent of someone NOT paying off their credit card bill but reaching the maximum allowable charges. Raising the debt ceiling is like that same person just going out and acquiring another credit card and using it to pay just the interest charges on the first card while also purchasing more until they reach the maximum allowed on the second card, and then procuring a third, fourth, and so on card, doing the same while racking up debt exponentially.
Raising the debt ceiling has nothing to do with repaying the debt, it simply allows government to spend more increasing the debt.

The only way to solve a debt problem is to begin repaying the principle owed, which government has not put forth any effort towards since Eisenhower was President.

The longer we wait the worse the consequences will become.

I think the GOP is quite willing to raise the debt ceiling, AND pass a budget, but Obama and the Democrats are demanding the inclusion of a new spending program which would perpetually require tax increases and new debt, eliminating any possibilty of ever repaying the Federal debt, not to mention the liabilities related to the administration of ObamaScare.

 

This is just more of the cons trying to protect the rich, namely insurance companies, the medical industry and corporate employers. And this whole strategy of the cons will do NOTHING to solve anything, it will only make everything worse. By shutting down the government, it will cause economic calamity. U.S. credit rating will fall yet again, making interest rates rise, and the interest on the national debt will cost taxpayers more. The stock market will drop like a rock, again. There will be another whole sale round of layoffs, and unemployment will skyrocket, again. And if default on the debt happens, money will be worthless on a global scale, and inflation will be 1000%. And cons are willing to do this, just to try to deny Obama a legacy. But they're desperate, because when healthcare kicks in, the cons will be exposed, because this country will come to the reality that Obamacare is good for Americans. Either way, the cons are done for.

The only thing I don't like about Obamacare, is it doesn't address the greed of the medical industry. It does however, take care of some of the greed of the insurance industry. But after this latest con job, there will be enough cons removed from congress to eliminate the gridlock, and then the rich doctors are going to get their comeupins. Karma is a beautiful thing.

 

Really? ^

The shutdown is merely a protest vote. Correct in theory. Fascism can not exist if it is not funded. Once again , hangover seems to be off base. Insurance cos. will have a massive boner for obycare. Purchasing their product has become mandatory through gubmint edict. What a desireable position for a business to be in.

Ah, as of now implementation software is no where near being shovel ready (j/k). No means for subsidy distribution has been established. Navigators are in short supply and I'm hearing the regime has gone so far as hiring without background checks. Just like syria , probably a good idea to kick back and watch this thing implode in oby's face.

 

The problem with that is that if the nation defaults, our interests rates on the debt that we already owe go up.

Also the credit card being used to pay off another credit card, okay I get there's a grain of truth in that analogy, but even then it's not a perfect analogy because what sets individual household budgets and countries budgets apart is the fact that a country can invest in it's various economic sectors and industries. Households can't really do that.


Also keep in mind that the government buys things in bulk, for the discounts that gives us, but the nation can't buy things at the wholesale price and reap those savings if budget resolutions are only short term, followed by political bickering, ect...

Also government defaults and government shutdowns (the two are separate to the point but related in this case Oct.1st, 2013) effect the private sector because passport processing is slowed down, if not altogether stopped. That's gonna impact businessmen that go abroad and is going to have a negative effect on the economy.

That's why I don't agree with this whole "use the debt ceiling as a political leverage tool", I don't see any benefit for the nation at large, even in the context of paying off the debt.

The fastest way we can pay off the debt is to grow jobs, so pay roll tax revenue can be increased, and other more smarter federal budget cuts can be made.

-----

Also keep in mind that Eisenhower, despite having a national debt at the time, did spend federal $ in smart ways like in the Interstate Highway System.

We wouldn't have the Interstate Highway System if the nation followed the logic of today that says cut spending and focus on paying the principle of the debt. In fact, spending money on the highway system grew the economy.

So not all spending is bad, even if the nation is in debt.

 

The problem with WHAT? Nowhere have I suggested NOT paying our debts, simply not increasing them beyond what they already are.

I've in the past invested in various economic sectors and industries, but not with borrowed money.

What is government buying a wholesale prices? And if it is not recouping the wholesale cost in full or greater, how are we benefiting?

Quite true, a default and a shutdown are not the same. In what way will passport processing be slowed? Are you talking about new passports and renewals? How will businesspersons be affected?

What are you referring to as "That's why"? How large need the debt become before you might begin to view it as a problem needing to be solved?

How many jobs and at what pay level would need to be created in order to cover the existing deficit spending? Considering that nearly half of income earners have no income tax liabiltiy, you seem to be making the case that we need pay the upper 1% and/or the upper 10% more as according to the IRS, they are the ones paying the most dollars in tax.

I don't think anyone has complained about spending on the interstate highway system, that clearly falls within Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. Are you claiming that you can't come up with any 'bad' government spending that could/should be reduced or eliminated?

 

I have to go digging for those answers Individual, the questions you are asking are extremely information specific and I'll get back to you on that.

But certainly work with me on finding these answers as well.

My educated guess on what we get in bulk would be commodities, like paper, pencils, pens, office furniture, and military purchases like ammo. (But I need to check this) For all I know they could be getting the price back in full or greater at wholesale.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/28/government-shutdown/2885749/

^Here's a link to a source the proved my point about passports. This same article is also linked by the Drudge Report as well.


---

I'm also certain there's stuff in the Federal Budget I'd agree with you on to trim or stop altogether.

But I'm not a budget analyst, so I can't give you specific programs I want cut with $ specific money value attributed to it.

I feel, that the debt, needs to be addressed soon, as in the next 8-10 years, but the first step is to get deficits under control so we can use those surpluses to start paying principle on the accumulative debt.

I just don't want programs cut, that give stability to the middle class.

I don't find it a coincidence that we have the biggest wealth disparity now, and the fact that unemployment is causing low payroll tax revenue.

Also keep in mind, that the government feels the benefit of the multiplier effect in economics, individual households don't. That's why investing, even with borrowed money, can be a smart thing at the national level.

 

I can wait.

I'm certain many things are bought in bulk, but office supplies are probably not a major expense issue, and the military budget would cover ammo, and other supplies necessary for their continued operations, but I'm unaware of any bulk government purchasing made for the purpose of reselling at a profit. In fact I'm unaware of any government purchases that are made for any purpose other than consumption.

I wouldn't say the article 'proves' your point about passports, but it does claim that delays are a possibility. I doubt that people who travel for business purposes would wait until a shutdown occurred before renewing or obtaining a passport, so that wouldn't be a big issue in my opinion.

Funny, but no one seems willing to go into that very deeply.

I'd be willing to bet that EVERY program could be run as well, or even better, with less funding than currently provided.

I believe cutting the deficit is what the House is attempting to do, NOT shut down the government. - Giving attention to the OP topic.

Which programs would those be?

Wealth disparity will continue to grow as the dollar devalues, and the cost of living rises.

You need to explain how you come to that conclusion, taking note that you stated 'can be a smart thing' rather than 'is a smart thing'.

 

Here's one specific in the federal budget I will mention that I know off the top of my head.

1. Reduce, or end the subsidizes we give to big industrial farming agribusinesses. It was great when we needed to grow and support local farmers after the Great Depression, but now it's become bastardized because the small farmers are being crushed by bigger corporate giants in the food business leveraging those subsidizes for themselves.

 

That's why most farmers are dem's. They end up with a high yield, After they claim the back 500 acres that they don't own anyway either flooded, Drought, Vandalism, Bug's, etc and get their free 'subsidiary' check from the government that comes every year. They plant in flood areas just to claim the high$$.
Tax exempt, Emissions exempt, Farm accounts, All the scams and exemptions along with free money. But it also helps the government to drive up the price of corn for the worthless shit ass ethanol gas. The government wants to own and seize all the land they can for ethanol and e85 kickbacks.

 

So then we agree this is a place and tweak in the federal budget that should happen.

For all sakes the government should help the small town farmer, but not the big agribusiness corporations.

The U.S. Gov. should also start pushing energy generated by bacteria.
There are various experiments and fledgling technologies about natural gas that are produced by bacteria that we can grow.

That should be MUCH more heavily invested and seized upon by our government and the private sector alike.

 

hmm . i'm here in Iowa . on the farm . harvest is just beginning . life
is crazy . fuk yo money and yo cars and yo urban desires . really ...
grow yo own damn food where yooz iz . really .

 

Tik',
i am with you buddy!
other people just don't get it , fraid.

 

The reason the cons don't give a fuk about the farm bill, is because they're getting all the food they want from South American countries at half the price, because those farmers pay their workers 50 cents an hour, and U.S. farmers have to pay $7.00 an hour. But when those stupid cons collapse the economy with this stupid government shutdown, the ports will close and there won't be any food coming in to WALMART any more.

 

So you are filling out forms for you're free money already from all the yield you lost and you never owned to begin with, Boo fuckin who. Osama wont let you go short handed, There will be checks and EBT card on its way.

 

Funny..........Our President wants to negotiate with Valdimir Putin, Kim jong Un, Syria's Assad, Iran.

But he will not negotiate with representatives in Congress about the public fisc.

Please tell me ; Who's shut-down is this anyway.

 

Its the 'I's be president' and 'Im the HNIC'. Hes trying to strong arm countries and they are laughing in his fucking face and its beautiful. He thinks hes 'supreme leader' and can do all, LMFAO. Maybe rack up trillions is all he is mentally capable of. Could only hope they fuck him over or scam him like he has this country he is supposed to represent.

He has been a fuck up from the nut sack and it will not change. Until he ruins America, The osamas will not be happy.

 

Yogi---you are absolutely wrong about the farmers being democrats. Absolutely. I grew up in the so-called "bread basket of the world", the San Joaquin valley of California. Kings county has supplanted Orange County in California as the most conservative-republican area in the state. Fresno and Tulare counties abut Kings. I know and have worked for ---for example= one that picked 20,000 acres of cotton last season. I could go on and make a longer list, but suffice it to say----those farmers are Republicans and yes, they want government off their backs, even as they cash their government checks.

And yeah--the government is going to shut down.

 

Not doubting you, But iowa has always been a lib state. They have always got the best handouts and if you have enough acres they will buy you out and you can work their farm and send the corn to the ethanol plants. I have watched it happen hand over fist the last few years.
Either too much rain, Not enough rain they always have an excuse and a hand out.