"People Get the Government They Deserve"

25

Evasion

I repeat show the evidence, I mean you’ve claimed before that you have defended your views - but you have NEVER been able to produce any evidence that you have done so in any rational or reasonable way.

You have told people they are wrong and you are right.

You have told people they haven’t got the intelligence to understand

You have told people they haven’t got the knowledge to understand

And you have blustered, evaded and run away.

None of which are rational or reasonable defenses against the many, many criticisms leveled at your views.

*
As explained free market ideology produces a system where wealth come to dominate and corrupt the system to services its interests to the detriment of all other groups.

Read - Free market = plutocratic tyranny
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=353336&f=36

Repeatedly shouting that you think that’s wrong does not refute that charge.

 

So how does the system control my thoughts over the buying and selling of things? That should still be the rule of a concept for appreciation. The concept is opportunity for the government to exist to the mind of the marketing individual. That is the Existence for the deserving people; we deserve Obama not because we voted for him, but because we did not revolt at the two party system. Of course, that is a concept.

 

we do have a responsibility to Africa as we have fucked it right up, and continue to do so… but i'm not sure the current help is really helpful at all… seems only the rich in that country are getting the money/aid in most cases… there is something terribly amiss as with everything that's going on on a global scale… veils and smoke screens thanks to our mainstream media collusion with the Corporations, bleeding the people dry etc… if i'd had any say in the matter a few hundred years ago, i'd have said leave Africa to Africans… but they wouldn't have listened because of all the $ & £ signs registering in their cold shark eyes...

 

Ha! Do you know what NAFTA is? North American Free Trade Agreement.

It was put in place to make trade easier with Mexico and Canada. ( And it's increased trade from a few billion, to several trillion dollars.

As for "jobs being shipped overseas;" I highly doubt it was due to the Free Trade Agreement. In fact, I think it is Liberal spending and taxes, that are causing jobs to go overseas. You need a 7000$ business license in America, just to start a business. Then, you have taxes on each employee, and today, you will have to pay for Obamacare for each of those employees.

If I owned a business, I'd want to avoid the US for manufacturing too- We want products high quality and cheap, and if our products were made in America (Coka cola etc.) prices would be much higher.

If people want jobs back in the US, we need to abolish taxes and get rid of stupid regulations. Even the government knows this is how to create jobs.

For the record, I'm not a Regan fan.

We agree and disagree. I think the corporations have had control much longer than that. Say 1913 when the biggest Banksters in the world, took over our Federal Reserve.

Yes, the president is a figure head, that doesn't make the Democrat "less scary" than the alternative. Obama has been a nightmare to this country, and our Constitution, and everything we stand for. He totally disregards the Constitution.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/316596-1

This is seriously going to make everything better?

Yes; Corporations currently control the policies of our government. Taking that centralized power from them, is the only thing that will ensure they wont continue abusing it.

What incentive would the corporations have to ever give up power?

It's not an "incentive." They'd have to play fair at the threat of lawsuits and bad publicity. Power corrupts, and many are corrupted. But, Libertarians believe in trial and jail for others who are current immune to the law, Monsanto.)

To ever stop fixing prices?
They fix prices with government help. Monopolies are illegal, and it is competition that makes prices go down, and it is meant to be supply and demand which control the pricing too.

Why would the rich come out of their gated communities and start sharing with the regular people?
Libertarians don't have a desire to go after rich people, just because they've made something of themselves. As I've stated, I'd enforce the Fair Tax, and nothing more. States could impose their own taxes for foodstamps and Humanitarian efforts. On the other hand, the government would have to shrink dramatically, end the drug war, stop sending troops globally and, cut foreign aid. This would make us safer and more wealthy. It is proven our meddling in the middle east is creating enemies; Every Drone Strike, 14 new militants are created.

Iraq, Libya and, Syria are all filled with Al Qaeda and radicals that we've actually given a foothold, by allegedly trying to abolish Al Qaeda.


Doctors, Lawyers and, Teachers all work for themselves, and it isn't the governments place to force them to charge less, or to pay for them when someone charges more. Government "help" (like college tuition) raises prices and makes it harder for the average American to afford. You used to be able to work your way through college. Today, a decent school is 60 grand or higher. A technical school even costs around 30 grand. This is due to government intervention, not corporation. Free markets cause prices to drop, government makes them go up. (Because they will pay anything.)

Exactly which rules are empowering the corporations right now?
Tons! The Drug Laws help the pharmaceutical industry and, drug cartels. Monsanto is protected by our government from lawsuits, if their product causes cancer. Obama put tons of regulations on coal (presumably) to help the oil industry. The government bailed out banks and automobiles. The government wages war, which profits the Oil Industry, Bankers, ARMS dealers and, anyone else in the Military-Industrial Complex. There's many more, but these are just a few examples of abuse.

Antitrust laws of 1891 are fine. They only say a company can't be a monopoly, or buy out most businesses in that category. But, I'd like to see that extended to the Federal Reserve and, government.

The thing is, you're automatically assuming nothing but government will protect you from Corporations, when I've shown that government doesn't protect you as-is.

My ideal protection is accountability; If Monsanto gives you cancer, not only can you sue them- but, a lawyer would take that case free until you're paid, because the only thing you can't do in my society is hurt/kill another or, damage their property. This means they would be punished.

Moreover, the worse corporations who live off the taxpayers back, break the law all the time. They're currently above the law, because the government thinks, it's above the law. All of them should be punished regardless. Including Obama, who murdered a 16 year old American citizen, without trial. No one is above the law in my system, not Government or corporations.

He's passed many "executive orders," that directly impose on our 2nd Amendment. Reactionary? "For every Action, there's an equal and opposite reaction."~Issac Newton~

Obama has systematically infringed on our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Many of the laws that he has passed, are Unconstitutional. I'm not a Republican, so look who's talking about "straw men."

And, on the issue of health care, he straight up lied to the American people. (I know, nothing new!) But he's using force to sell healthcare, which will only lead to a further increase in Medical prices. Why do you think prices are so high at hospitals today? It is 40 years of taxpayer funded Medicade. Not only will the price go up, but everyone must lose their insurance, to join with a one-size-fits-all government insurance, (sponsored by the biggest insurance companies in the US.) So price will go up and we create this government-corporate monopoly, in which the government will most likely lose money, and insurance industries will gain. That's not to mention this is being forced unto everyone by arguably the most corrupt president in history.

We're talking about a President who purposely killed American citizens, and had virtually no remorse. In fact, he said to his Adviser "I'm really good at killing people."

When I see people like you so devoted to him, it worries me that seemingly smart Americans can't see through the facade of Government promises, especially when they've been caught lying extensively. I'm not affiliated with either party. I lean toward the Right because I believe in the Second Amendment. I'm really about the whole Constitution. Obama has been taking away our Human Rights that our Founders said came from God. A more secular argument; You have these Rights for being Human. But Obama has Consistently trampled them in laws like NDAA,CISPA, HR347,FAA Reauthorization act and, the continuation of the NSA. All this is unconstitutional, and it paints an America in the near future, I don't wish to live in. If the Government doesn't address these concerns, there will be problems brewing, because the numbers of people who feel like me is going up, as faith in government goes down.

Because of all his Constitutional violations, I see Obama as being worse than Bush even...

Well, I believe it. I don't question that; I question why a free thinker would conform with a prepackaged ideal for the reality around them. I personally don't like living under a government which kicks down doors to find dirty marijuana pipes,(Occasionally getting the wrong house and shooting the dog anyway.) A government that rummages through peoples Emails and Texts, a government which can restrict protests on White House property, or, a government which can kill/detain any American citizen with no trial or even guilt (in the 16 year olds case- he did nothing.) Obama is putting himself off as a monarch and a Dictator. I'm not a traditional republican, I hated Bush too. But Obama is worse because he's doing all this stuff in our faces, and people are too occupied or complacent to realize.

Bush got hell for signing the Patriot Act, Obama has re-enstated it twice, and passed so many of his own violations.

I hope you think hard about what I'm saying.

HR347
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voKh-nahhcE"]H.R. 347 Explained - YouTube

CISPA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VlRKUP4fpc"]The Real Danger of CISPA - YouTube

NSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzj7XS7eiQo"]NSA Spying is Far Worse Than You Thought - YouTube


I hope you know about the NDAA, but here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF0iMFuskxA"]Barack Obama Signs NDAA Bill into Law Dec 31st. 2011 - Ron Paul explains the Bill - YouTube

 

Yes, I know what NAFTA is... and all that it's done is make sure that the manufacturing has gone to Mexico and most of the Canadian businesses are lost forever. We're being colonized by American corporations who plunder our resources and encourage politicians to deregulate the environment to the point where we're one of the worst countries in the world in terms of environmental protection. Basically, it paved the way for the American corporations to own both cheaper labor from Mexico AND the resources from Canada... it didn't benefit the middle/working class AT ALL and in fact hurt them tremendously. A resource-driven economy is never a strong one... it means a lot of temporary work followed by a period of high unemployment when the jobs/mines/logging/drilling dries up. It doesn't matter if you have lower prices when you don't have a job! Of course, the solution to this is to just give everyone loans and credit cards and get them indebted to the banks and loan sharks.

And if the corporations are turning record profits (you just talked about the huge trade bonus), why exactly is it so painful for them to pay their taxes? How could NAFTA have made it HARDER for them to do business here when they're actually getting richer and richer? Especially since their taxes are actually LOWER than they were 50 years ago, when the economy was booming for EVERYONE? Why are there FEWER environmental regulations than even in the 80s? How can you possibly think that tariffs and regulations DON'T discourage shipping your business overseas? You've already admitted that taxes are apparently such an enormous obstacle to their doing business here... why do you think tariffs are irrelevant? Why do you think tariffs wouldn't raise the prices on goods manufactured in China? And if people couldn't afford goods, you don't think that salaries would need to go up so the corporations could actually SELL their products? I guess they've realized that it doesn't matter if they're buying it with real money... they can buy it with debt and welfare.

Seriously... free trade has been incredible for corporations, but they're STILL trying to squeeze more money out of the people... the reason for this isn't because there are too many regulations, it's because they're greedy. You're the one who has swallowed their Kool-Aid if you seriously think the problem is that they can't afford it... they CAN afford it. You seriously think that there's such a huge difference in your quality of life if you're making 30 million instead of 300 million a year? They just want to profit from foreign labor because they're greedy. That's it... that's the explanation. Regulations are irrelevant.

I seriously think that Libertarians think the solution is make the US more like China... make everyone a slave and then give them a concrete coffin in the back of the factory where they can share a room, a sink and a shower with 4 other slaves... and then thank our masters for this opportunity to make the iPads so we can go out and use credit to pay for them.

The solution here is to have an international committee that forces the developing world to regulate their environments and tax their businesses more... then these fuckers will be FORCED to care about the planet, actually TRY to come up with solutions for their toxic practices, and there won't be any advantage to hiring foreign laborers, which will bring manufacturing back to the west.

Giving them free reign is just going to make everything worse... they'll still own all of the resources, all of the land, the government, etc. The problem now is that they're holding the government hostage... but sooner or later someone is going to have to stand up to them. If you take away the central power, then no one is going to be strong enough.

If you deregulate, it won't matter if you file a lawsuit... you won't be able to even afford a lawyer. The rich can simply raise the price of legal fees by creating an artificial demand, or bribing every decent lawyer to stay away from you. No one is going to work for you if the corporation pays $1 million/week and you can only afford $1000/month, with no government assistance to help you out.

The government isn't inherently evil, and not all of the laws that exist do so for the wrong reasons. Some of them work and some don't. It's like technology... some have positive uses and some have negative uses. The government is supposed to act in the best interests of the majority... if you weaken it as Reagan and Carter and Clinton and Bush did, then it's going to act in the best interests of whoever has the power. So why do you think the solution here is to weaken it further as opposed to building it back up? Who else is going to take a stand against the corporations? Why do you think that private interests would EVER choose people over profit? Soooo many charities are corrupt. Universities are more about profits/turning themselves into amusement parks than learning. The American health care system is pretty messed up-- properly centralizing it would take the power away from private interests... look at Canada-- billions of dollars are saved every year.

Your point about regulations creating a demand in other areas is fair... but seriously, you think that coal is a good thing? Coal is the most poisonous way to generate electricity that there is. If the gas companies benefit, that's a small price to pay for getting rid of it. It's not fair to criticize that kind of decision-making-- would you be upset if GMO were suddenly regulated out of existence too? Is it a ploy to favor the organic food industry? Whenever you realize something is poison and take action, it's a good thing, not a bad thing... if someone else profits from that decision, then it doesn't mean that it was all a conspiracy or that it's evidence of corruption in government. Sometimes it just means that they're protecting the environment.

I'm not going to address everything you said because there was simply too much info there... and youtube isn't a valid source of objective information-- it's an open forum where every conspiracy nut and paranoid right-wing idiot can manipulate video/audio/facts to suit their own desires.

And Fox News is WORSE than the conspiracy nuts... it is literally brimming with lies, manipulations and wildly distorted facts. I'm not even going to watch that video.

 

Indirect harm is the same concept. Nestle is pumping water out of the Great lakes and paying 200$ per year. In the meantime, it is robbing locals of their natural water, and emptying the great lakes rapidly. That is destruction or theft of property. People living on the lake should have access to the lake, and Nestle can buy their own lake, or be liable to those people, and accountable to consumers who actually pay attention, to where their food/bottled water is coming from. Remember, no one protects us from this abuse now, but an understanding consumer and lawful liability would protect us from that.

That is an opinion and an assumption. Corporations get their power to use force, through government. They do it with taxes and regulations, many of which are aimed toward their competitor or small businesses. This corporate takeover is hurting the middle class. But, it has been caused by a Rogue Government that works for the highest bidder. I think the whole idea that this system can keep working is a fallacy. They are Militarizing the Police, and imposing on our basic Human Rights. When we shrink the government, all corporate force is gone. We can stop being scared into pointless wars and unconstitutional governance. Most people today oppose the current government, and believe in our founding principles, but we want them incorporated into the modern age.

You have the right to speech and free thought- we should also have the Right to ingest what we please, without government coersion.

We have the Right against unreasonable searches,- we should also have that Right when it comes to private internet documents and, Drones flying overhead equipped with Heat Vision..

This is a big lie! Do you even realize how much freedom one has without government intervention? One could become a prostitute (if they wish,) and it'd be safer and cleaner because there would be STD testing, like in Vegas.

There would be businesses opening around drugs, and they would become safer as a result of people knowing what they're ingesting, and the criminality would leave with prohibition (like with alcohol.) So one can grow weed, opium or, coca and that's a new a good paying job for a lot of people. Not to mention the store clerks and transporters.

But more than that, in place where government has failed to fill it's constitution oath, we let corporations take over. Instead of some low-rank TSA officer patting down our 6 year old daughters, we would have a real security company, that would be held accountable. They would have real metal detectors (unlike TSA,) and maybe even a guard in the plane with the pilots. Being that the company would be at fault for any mishaps, they'd have to ensure the sanity of those people (again, unlike the TSA.)That would create several new Security Businesses right there.

Then, lower taxes create jobs. So, people are making money, they get to keep more of that money to do as they please with, and they can do more in life. An extra 200$ a week is meaningful to the middle class household. That's like 10,000$ per year, from people who aren't eligible to receive government benefits at all. And that's not nearly all the taxes we pay either.

And as I've said, the government nor anyone can provide these made-up and extraordinary "freedoms."

One will always experience harm, hardships, sickness and perhaps even exploitation. When you ask the government to fix these things, they just take it over as a scam to profit. Back in the day, people got paid 5 silver quarters per hour, which runs at around 30 dollars today. Minimum wage today is what... like, 7.50$ per hour? we've given the government and private banks the ability to manipulate our currency and they printed and bailed themselves out and stockpiled their bank accounts, well the taxpayer got poorer as a result. More government intervention is bound to hurt.

And freedom from sickness shouldn't mean forced government insurance, that has made medical prices skyrocket. The answer is to get government out of healthcare, and let people compete for our dollar. Do you think it really costs the hospital 65$ for a Vicoden? No. They charge that because government will pay anything, and theyve created a monopoly where every needs healthcare to survive. Now, they're forcing one healthcare plan on us all, built by the biggest insurance agencies. It's no doubt a scam to create a new monopoly, put competitors out of business and, raise prices to milk more from us. We lose, Big Insurance wins- that's not freedom, but enslavement.

I get the premise of what you're saying; But, government doesn't avoid that. Throughout mankind's history, there was elite, and extremely poor. America is different because we allow people to move up the latter, and I think my ideal world has more opportunity for everyone. Currently blacks are unequally charged with Drug Crimes, abolishing drug laws help them, and can create jobs for individuals who today, are treated as criminals for life-style choices, Obama himself has admittedly did.

So, there is a lot of hardship, desperation and, opposition in America right now. My society is different, in that businesses don't get bailouts or government benefits- if they fail, they fail. They can't use Federal Government to ignore their crimes or impose force.

My ideals help everyone, by letting them keep more money, and focusing wealth locally. The government currently wastes so much money, that should've never left the peoples hands...

Everyone should benefit from each other. Allowing competition again will create jobs and, lowering taxes will put money into the citizens pockets, this will expand the middle class and allow some people to live nicely other than just getting by, like today. I feel like it is common sense. We're on a sinking ship. The people are already starting to get fed up, it's only a matter of time before so many Freedom's are gone, that this sparks something bigger.

But I can predict it will come because American patriots who understand the Revolutionary war and the Constitution, wont take America's disembodiment lying down.

 

ia

If you decide to work there, you know it will eventually dry up. That's your fault, not anyone elses, and it's not the governments job to pay for your mistake of getting a temp job to begin with.

Trading with other countries isn't a bad thing, I don't know much about NAFTA specifically to talk on it, but trade is good for America.

Are you gonna talk or yell? You're yelling at me for stuff IDK and I don't support Regan, Bush, Obama or any of those lying snakes. But you're proving my point- government is not protecting you from large corporations. We need a system which punishes corporate people like they would normal people, and hold them accountable. Paying more taxes does virtually nothing, as no one receives benefits except corporations or people who don't work at all. You're freaking out about people paying taxes, but what do taxes do? We give trillions to overseas governments, who don't extend it to their people, we pay 1.5 M dollars for 1 cruise missile, we waste billions at a party in Las Vegas and, we spend billions building embassies overseas, in many places we're unwelcome.

You think government is a force for good, and nothing is further from the truth!

I think it's just an extra way for government to take money, and keep prices high. The corporations only pass that tax on to the consumer, and we pay more.

Idk what you're talking about. I don't support credit cards, debt or, anything like that. This is a straw man argument, it doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying. Salaries would essentially go up, because you have this major tax burden lifted every week. It gets wasted by government, but it goes far in the hands of individuals who will buy or share that money.

I NEVER said they cant afford it. The objective of any business, is to make profit. If people want cheap prices, yeah, they're gonna buy cheaper products which typically use pratices we find apalling in the US. But the answer isn't just to blindly tax every rich person more, and it wouldn't do anything but put MORE wealth in the hands of government, who are known to WASTE it. The answer is consumer awareness and corporate liablity. Regulations are a big problem when a little girl can't even open a lemonade stand without the cops busting it. (which has happened.)

In the USA, if someone has a good idea, they should be able to profit from it and make money, you're endorsing communism where the government takes care of everyone, and no one is allowed to have guns or freedom, except government. But, you fail to realize, that only creates government elites and everyone else is impoverished with government food, medicine and tombstones. That is how communism always has been, but todays America is too blinded by Obama's charm, to look though the smokescreen and see the terror he is causing in this country.

*sarcasm* yeah, cause it is our 1st ambition to gather up Liberals and make them build Ipads and Smartcars...

That's the most ignorant statement I've ever heard in my life. People work for what they believe is fair. I wouldn't go work for $7.50 an hour, because Ive made 9.75 and I know I'm worth that. 7.50 is not enough to live and it's an arbitrary number, that forces people to live as slaves.

Not another Government Comittee, right? Taxes don't do the job, what's needed is liability where companies can be sued or shut down due to dumping waste.

The Government is not defending you, and they're not going to defend you. The central power has been used against us for so long, that that is it's normal function. People are strong enough to combat corporations with liability and lawsuits. It is stronger than the system we have now, but Liberals put absolute faith on the EPA and other government organizations, who are known to exploit power, and fine regular people for minor infractions, that don't effect the envoirment at all. (IE one couple was fined 100 thousand per DAY for having the wrong tree in their yard.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC8SYGOD6ME"]NFIB and Family Farmers Reject the EPA's Impractical "Dust" Regulations - YouTube

No one is going to bribe every single lawyer, and if they are caught doing something like that, it is the job of the people to stop supporting that business. Nothing protects you from any of this today, except EPA "fines" if they are caught, but sometimes they cost less than dumping waste legally, so the government is virtually turning a blind eye. This idea that Big Brother will save us from every decease and every evil business, is just false, impossible and victimizes free people, who enjoy privacy.

Your info is skewed and opinionated. The government IS inherently bad, because they impose violent force on others to promote their will.The reason our healthcare is screwed is due to government. You look at government as some great savoir, totally ignoring that they do just the opposite, including your "moderate" Obama.

That's a misinformed assumption. Burning fossil fuel is just as bad as coal, and there's much less of it. The manditory ethinol Obama forced in gasoline, is causing envoirmental damages- but again, all that's ignored. Because if Obama does it, it's automatically okay. You're truly ignorant to be told the truth, and snap back with some pointless unrelated jargon that doesn't tie into the conversation at all. Protecting the envoirment is done by people. I'm offering more than you can do now, or Obama would do! Obama's the one who made it ILLEGAL to sue monsanto.

If you think he's a good politician, you're the idiot and conspiracy nut!

No, you're not going to address what I said because it shows your president as the SCAM he is, and why he's fundamentally oppose to our Rule of Law. He deserves to be tried for treason, and people who blindly follow him because you think he's hurting the elite, must be the most uninformed group in the entire country.

Those videos were posted on Youtube, but all legitimate sources, some even coming from the House.

The fact that you do watch Fox at all proves you're a Liberal/Democrat. Fox is no more bias than CNN, and that's proven in the way CNN totally lied about Syria, and their source was creating gun shots and explosions heard.

Sadly, there's probably no help for you. You think the answer is in this prepackaged two party system, and it's really just a stupid show to distract you.

I've put right in front of your face proof from mainstream media sources this is happening, and you blatently ignored it. That's why I hate you Obama supporters: you want to force your will on everyone, even if it means killing 16 year olds, or spying on people like me who don't like the system. This is all out in the open, not "conspiracy."

People like you blindly support it- some of you don't know, some of you find out and just ignore reality. But people who believe in true freedom aren't going to ignore it.

Idc what you perceive about my views- you're one of those ignorant Obama supporter to whom he can do NOTHING wrong, including killing citizens.

It's just sad to me that people are this blinded and ignorant. Perhaps it is greed guilding Liberals too!

 

Yes, everyone has the luxury of getting any job they want at any time. Good point.

You're totally blinded by your nationalism. How has trade benefited you, specifically?

You need to learn how to separate bad decisions from government as a thing. There are good politicians and bad ones. There is waste and there is economy. I agree that corruption is a negative force... I just don't see how getting rid of the government is going to influence things in a positive way.

And here's what happens when you cut taxes:

I don't think it's always a force for good, but I do think it's a lot better than trusting the corporations... and there is more potential for a politician to take a stand against the corporations than another corporation.

I'm talking about the result of letting the corporations have free reign over the economy, which is what would happen if you deregulated everything. Salaries would NOT go up because there would be no minimum wage, and no incentive to pay workers for anything. The more automated everything gets, the less that people are needed... the only reason that the third world manufacturing labor is needed is because it's cheaper than machines. What happens when you get a machine that is cheaper than basic housing, food and water? You get your private army to shoot anyone who tries to mess with your gated factory.

We are on our way to a neo-feudalist state because of deregulation.

You honestly think that people who want iPads don't know where they're coming from? How are you going to enforce corporate liability without a central authority? How is your local authority going to be able to offer a challenge to the corporation if the corporation's private army of soldiers and lawyers is bigger than yours, which it almost certainly will be?

Why is it that so many tea partiers think that their guns are going to protect them from the government? If the government wanted to kill you, they could do it right now.

Obama isn't a strong president by any measure... he is constantly being defeated in congress and again, more pro-gun laws have been passed following Sandy Hook than anti-gun laws. You must be really happy about that one-- children get murdered and the NRA convinces everyone that they need more guns. It makes so much sense!

I really don't think you would be in charge of anything considering you make just under $10/hour... you would be one of the slaves.

And no, people don't work for what they believe is fair. Not all people out there are as privileged as you and have the luxury of picking and choosing their job, or how much they're apparently worth. If they didn't take that job, someone else would. The problem is that the wages are so low it's better to just be on welfare, or sell drugs or something like that. I know if my only choice in life was between welfare and MacDonald's and they were both offering similar standard of living, I would choose welfare every single time... it only makes sense.

And it's absurd to think that corporations would raise worker salaries if the tax rate dropped to zero. Their tax rates dropped throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s and wages stagnated. They've sold people on lower wages by claiming that their jobs were never meant to be careers and dodging unionization by creating a high turnover, so everyone considers minimum wage jobs to be inferior, even though they aren't.

Corporations get sued all the time! If you simply google 'suing a corporation for dumping waste', you will get over 23 MILLION hits.

But let's just pretend that this isn't happening... are you pro-regulation here? Who is going to preside over this trial? A privatized judge?

So because you consider a single instance of EPA intervention to be unreasonable, the entire agency is a completely useless waste of money and should be shut down immediately. Yep, that's a pretty solid argument.

Would you agree that in the US rich people tend to have better doctors?
Would you agree that in the US rich people go to better schools?
Would you agree that in the US rich people generally have better lawyers?
Why is this pattern going to change if you suddenly privatized everything?

And why is the solution getting rid of the EPA as opposed to raising the fines or I dunno, regulating the industry? How are you going to prevent this kind of thing from happening if there are NO regulations and NO fines? I have no idea what you're even advocating here... are you saying we need a private business to regulate other private businesses? How are people going to pay for that? If the rich aren't paying taxes then how are ordinary people going to be able to afford to pay a 'private EPA', which is apparently somehow going to be better than the public version?

Is health care screwed in Scandinavia too? In Canada? In the UK?

I don't think you know what 'conspiracy' means.

And Coal IS a fossil fuel.

I also think that I'm more informed than someone who is obviously just pulling things out of his ass.



Coal is the WORST way to get energy. And ethanol is better than gasoline.



Obviously it's not perfect but it's MUCH better than gasoline... are you saying we shouldn't switch unless it's a 'perfect' fuel, therefore Obama is evil?

And if you're so big on freedom, then why are you anti-GMO? Why do you want people to pay higher prices? Why aren't you supporting Monsanto's freedom?

"U DON'T THINK WUT I THINK SO U IS BRAINWASHED."-StpLSD25

I've officially stopped taking you seriously... I was pretty much convinced you weren't worth the time when you talked about coal, but now I'm sure.

Here's one of my favorite bits about Fox News:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/t...ean-hannity-uses-glenn-beck-s-protest-footage

Using footage of an anti-Westboro Baptist Church rally to make an anti-Obamacare rally seem more well-attended... well done, Fox 'News'!!

Except I don't think that.

You've demonstrated profound ignorance multiple times in this thread... you're ignorant about 'liberals', you're ignorant about coal, you're ignorant about what fossil fuels ARE, you're ignorant about what taxes do to an economy, you're ignorant about corporations being sued, you're ignorant about me, you're ignorant about Obama, you're ignorant about government, you're ignorant about the media and you're ignorant about reality.

I'm done here.

 

25

Oh dear yet more evasive rants which don’t address any of the many outstanding criticisms of your ideas.

I could go line my line but i'll take just one example -

To repeat lowing taxation - just increases the power and influence of wealth, people at the low end of the scale don’t receive back anything like those at the top. It give disposable wealth to those who least need it and going by history would only use to further their own interests.

Let us say that there was a simple 10% tax and it was returned.

So someone earning 1000 gets back 100 dollars not much

10,000 = 1000 still not much

(Average wage in US is around 40,000 = 4000 dollars)

100,000 = 10,000 now that’s better

[“According to the census bureau, 21.8% of FAMILIES made over $100,000 a year” even fewer individuals]

1,000,000 = 100,000 now you’re getting serious money

[People and households earning $1 million or more annually made up just 0.1 percent, or just over 235,000, of the 140 million tax returns filed in 2009,]

10,000,000 = 1,000,000 that will buy a lot of influence

[and just 8,274 returns were filed by people making $10 million or more – 0.003% of 300 million is 9000]

100,000,000 = 10,000,000 and that a whole lot more.

To me that’s bad enough but actually there is progressive taxation meaning the wealthy pay more and so would get vastly more back if taxes were reduced.

People and households earning $1 million or more annually made up just 0.1 percent, or just over 235,000, of the 140 million tax returns filed in 2009, and just 8,274 returns were filed by people making $10 million or more. Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60717.html#ixzz2bMrGRmaC

 

I didn't say 'any' job at 'any' time. But yes, it is a good point; Like McDonalds employees walked out to protest poor pay yesterday, or those people who quit cause their boss was racist.

You're branding me with every other Republican, and it isn't working for you. Nationalism is thinking you have the best country in the world, and everything they do is inherently right. You are closer to a Nationalist than me.

Trade, has improved everyone's standard of living, in America. It has also has created jobs, and opens for more healthy competition. Without trade we would have a very narrow range of choices. We wouldn't be able to get cheap but quality products, like we do today. Trade contributes to what America is, and our economic structure generally. Giving trillions of dollars of Foreign Aid, should stop, before we stop businesses from competing.


People like you love to talk about how "unfair" capitalism is, but how "fair" the government allegedly is. Whereas, before capitalism there was only 2 classes in any society- Very rich, rolling in gold, or, extremely impoverished working for bread. Capitalism has created the Middle Class. To think government is more fair than a system which allows people to grow, is ill-informed. If you have a good idea, or a good product you built, you shouldn't be held back by thousands of dollars in taxes. Liberals don't understand that the average joe can hardly get by, let alone open a small business. And a lot of that is due to overtaxation and government intervention.

"Good politicians and bad ones." Don't mean much coming from someone who would probably declare Obama, Kerry, Gore and, Clinton, "good;" Yet, They are as fake, and as corrupt as any Republican in office.

The Federal Government has been involved in an endless Ponzi Scheme whic doubles in size and price yearly. They rely on people who blindly support them, despite so much reasoning to the contrary. I notice you still failed to mention Obama's Constitutional Violations- Perhaps because Liberals have no standards or "regulation," for government.

The problem is, you don't realize the real and imminent threat the government poses on the citizens, and our basic Human Rights. Or you realize, but, you falsely believe it's okay to use force to impose your will on 313 million people.

I don't know where your chart came from, and I don't believe it either. You expect me to believe the economy got better due to more taxes?
It's an obvious lie, people would benefit from that money much more than government.

We haven't had a real president since Kennedy or before, so to suggest politicians are "more trustworthy," is frankly just naive.

Again, corporations don't have power without government. There are no private armies, nor would their be. No one would buy from a corporation who openly uses force, nor would they allow it.Today, corporations use government armies, government police and, government laws.

Moreover, I rely on people working for what they think is fair. Minimum wage has hardly made wages fairer, or made it easier for people to live. Do you know before minimum wage, people were getting paid 5 silver quarters an hour, that is worth about 30$ per hr in todays money- but, we make a lousy 7.50$. When money doesn't go nearly as far, due to government printing and waste. Everytime the government prints a dollar, it devaules everyone elses dollars.

You don't need a "central authority;" Local governments would be more likely to fight corruption, being that they work for the people of their states, and helping corporations is bad publicity. Plus, there's too many officials in all of 50 states, for someone to bribe everyone every 2 years.. But a "central power" is easy to bribe, they do it all the time. Both Democrats and Republicans both want to expand government today. All the government does, is allow an opening to take corporate bribes. I bet the elite are favored by the EPA, if they are punished at all. I also believe the Federal Government and corporations are in bed. Why else would Obama sign a law protecting Monsanto?

Maybe they could kill me under your forceful Liberal system, which doesn't make way for the Constitution, which says every American has the Right to a trail and due process! I think other parts of the Constitution are meant to protect us from government, but have been disregarded lately. Secondly- you're wrong; An AR15 has a lot of the characteristics of fully-automatic guns in the US military. But, you waste less ammo, because you have control of your shots. The government hasn't (yet) Drone-striked the US, but he's putting 20,000 drones in our sky, which have heat vision, and can easily see where you are, in your home.

Whether the government wants to kills citizens or not, is highly debatable. Perhaps they are not doing it as rapidly as they'd like to be, cause trust in government is at an all-time low.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/10...t-most-federal-agencies-are-viewed-favorably/

I believe people are catching on- It's not about Left or Right, it's about the founding principles of our nation, and the Liberty or Founding Fathers fought for. Our government today, is much worse than the monarchy they fought. You think government is fair, or does more good than harm, and I don't see that at all.

When I think of government I think of: That Unarmed women shot pointlessly in DC, the kid tazed to death, for writing graffiti on the wall, The cops at OWS who got paid leave, for pepper-spraying unarmed protesters and, all their other abuses of force- Cop taking naked pictures of a 15 year old girl, a cop raping a women in the back of his Patrol Car, A cop running a prostitution ring-- and this is all just recently. So, you believe THESE people should have guns, but, citizens shouldn't? Just one more of many hypocrisies from Liberalism. Government is allowed to have guns, to allegedly protect us, meanwhile, cops don't show up till after the crime occurs. And being that criminals would still obtain guns, what could I do for up to two hours that it takes the police sometimes?? In the Liberal world, I need to cower under my bed, and wait for Policemen with their guns to come do something, I could've done when he entered.


So yeah, taking away guns makes so much sense- for oligarchs or communists..

Look at you; Mr. Entitled. You're saying I wouldn't be in charge of anything, yet, you've openly admitted that all you do for a living is wait for your card to be refilled. I'm not knocking on you for getting Foodstamps. But, you've openly admitted you chose them as opposed to the job, therefore, you're not paying any taxes. So, it has became more evident, why you think less taxes only help the rich. All the graphs of the past 40 years, mean nothing to me, because the policies of the past 40 years have been to the contrary of my beliefs. (Expansion of Government)

Priviledged!? Ha! That's a joke. You don't know me, dude. I've had jobs I didn't like, or that didn't pay enough, and I just made money until I got another job.

I feel like you're a typical Liberal because you really don't have a sense for the Middle/Working class at all. How much do you get from government? 200-300$? How would you like working for a living, for 10$ per hour, and paying 450$ per month, to a government which does virtually nothing for you?? It may do something for YOU, but you aren't paying for it, so you can't say if it's worth it or not, because that is money forced out of peoples checks. It's easy to spend money that's not yours- give me a trillion dollars, I'll spend it, then, I'll say/believe it was worth it, because it wasn't my money to spend to begin with. Government is a huge ponzi scheme, but due to the fact you're dependent on it, I don't think you even care to see the truth that most of Americans realize already.

I wouldn't work fast food again. But I did it for years, and got a lot of burns.

The thing is, with free people and free trade, we would have an economic boom, much like the first one. The thing you're failing to realize about the 60's-today, is that these policies have infringed on freedom, and the government has expanded extensively. So it's not an accurate prediction, and more "tax cuts" were geared directly toward the rich. That's why we're seeing this transfer of wealth to the 1%, and a lot of it is due to the government getting bigger and using so much money

"Suing" as in attempting to sue. In many cases, it doesn't work out. else they do, is chargable. In my system dumping would be the equivilent to theft, so it's illegal. Bribery, fraud and, most everything And that doesn't mean anything, because it's all common words, and after a few pages it'll show results for "toxic waste" only. And anyway, as I've stated, you can;t sue Monsanto or, other companies with government immunity. You seem to think that's fine,whereas I see it for the fake capitalism it is, and actually the thing that is allowing a few corporate scumbags to control this country.

Well, no. If someone is breaking the law, they should be tried. Dumping toxic waste or any waste is damaging property, and you should be tried for it. But I don't think government should be above the law or the constitution like they think they are today.

I've not seen 1 good thing they do. Global Warming to me, is based on faulty evidence, and the "solutions" we pay for, are more liable to cause internal damages on Humans (such as dumping metal particles.) Plus, the "science" is only based off of 200 years, we've had heating and cooling in 2000+ years, we don't know for sure the world is heating due to us. But we're spending billions per year on fighting something, we don't even know exists. We're putting gasses and metal in our air, and charging us for doing it. Moreover, as I said, they fine people for owning the wrong tree. I could show you, but you "don't trust fox," one of the few American business news sources.

I don't see a reason for it to change. You want the taxpayer to pay for that, huh? Listen, buddy, regular citizens already work our asses off to barely squeeze by already.

I feel like you believe the best doctors and lawyers come free from the government. Whereas, government hires employees at insane salaries, and don't encourage much work ethic. The reason poor people get bad lawyers, is because they're sponsored by the government, and they get paid just as much if you say you're guilty, and it's less work for them.

I don't care if someone comes into money somehow. I don't think it's right to assume they are all bad and evil because they've done well for themselves. This is an unfair way of thinking. Most people are like you and me is essence, but the worse ones have different morals. I think it is the ones who kill, start wars, use taxpayers money, bribe government officials and, infringe on our Rights, are the bad ones. But neither taxing more or government would stop that. It is taking the power of force from corporations that will protect people. They wouldn't "build an army," for several reasons, but mostly bad publicity, and people not buying their products. corporations can't use force without government.

No I'm not. There are laws in place which are consistently violated by government and corporations together, which should be followed. Laws against bribery, and in favor of a Monitary system based of real precious metals like gold and silver, instead of paper money based on debt.

And anyway, a private EPA or charitable EPA would be less likely to take bribes and go easy on corporations. Why? Because a private EPA would be liable to consumers. But, that's not what I'm endorsing. What I endorse is penalties which would discourage dumping at the treat of serious legal trouble. Today, there are dozens of oil/waste spills, that either go unreported or unpunished. I want everyone to play by the same rules, which means no government benefits. If you tax more, that doesn't effect the elite who have caused this mess

I haven't read into them, so I can't say for sure. But, I can say that within 40 years of government-run Medicade: the cost of care has gone up, the qaulity of care has gone down, and the amount of people on healthcare is less now, than before the government got involved.

Also, government has a bad rep in our medicine generally. Look at the "H1N1" flu shots, which have paralyzed and killed people, but it's being pushed by government, and offered "free," at your local WalMart.

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2010/10/12/obama-administration-pushing-h1n1-flu-shot/

con·spir·a·cy
kənˈspirəsē/
noun
noun: conspiracy; plural noun: conspiracies
1.
a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
"a conspiracy to destroy the government"
synonyms:plot, scheme, plan, machination, ploy, trick, ruse, subterfuge; More

That's only if you believe CO2 Emissions are burning our planet. As I've said before, the THEORY of Global Warming only goes off of science of the past 200 years, the Earth is thousands of years old- If you ask me, it's a very short time in relative terms, and it's just a way to milk more money out of the taxpayer and, hurt the environment by "GeoEngineering" (Shooting metal particles and chemicals in our air.)

And ethanol is better than coal??

http://rt.com/usa/us-green-push-ethanol-615/

As shown above, it is causing more harm than good. Obama is evil because of what he does, not because of forcing ethanol into gas.

GMO's are cancerous and dangerous. The only reason their product is legal is because their CEO was the head of the FDA, just long enough to bend the rules. They also did every public test on GMO's, with no oversight, and for only 3 months, when as early as 4 months can cause tumors in rats.

This is destroying other people's property. The worse part is, we don't know if a product has GMO's or not, ass there is not required labeling in the US

I've realized you're a brainwashed Obama fanboy Liberal from the start, I just kept talking to you because I love pointing out your very many hypocrisies. Of course you don't want my society, you'd rather the government give you everything free, instead of working for an honest living.

America used to be a place where you can work yourself through college, or, pay your medical bills. Everything has gotten expensive because of people like you who demand government pay it, and it makes it harder on the middle class and working class people who already pay 1/5th of their paycheck. Maybe you'd believe in personal responsibility and keeping the money you earned, if you ever actually earned money. I like getting paid for every hour I worked, and I don't like working over a day to pay someone else to sit on their ass, and a lot of Americans are starting to feel the same way.

You support force and violence to rob me, so you don't have to get a job and actually contribute to society. What about if we star taxing foodstamps? If you make 200$, we'll take back 40$ just like a real paycheck. I bet you wouldn't like that, but it's not even your money to begin with.

Wow! That's a lot worse than lying to get America into war, isnt it?

Thanks CNN! For being the voice of "truth," to people who don't care to look into it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LxleSr-_5Gk

What do you mean? You've admitted you like Obama, or support his policies, and you've totally ignored his Human Rights violations and lies. This much blind faith in a leader is what lead to Hitler. That's why the government wants us disarmed- nearly every tyrannical government confiscates the citizens guns, so only they have any power. You're feeding into it by supporting it. The reason you don't want to believe me is because it's the truth and, the truth hurts.

I think you're extremely ignorant and the type of entitled Liberals I'm talking about. I think you're mad because I hit the nail on the head, and Liberals/Democrats only have 1 defense; Deny and deflect. You're ignorant about basic economics and you think Americans hard earned money grows on trees! You don't work, but you have no problem exploiting other people who work so you can have free food, healthcare and, government protection. You ARE the Liberal I talk about!

I'm ignorant about Obama?
You don't know what ignorance is!
What about ignoring him murdering citizens?
Ignoring his Constitutional violations?
Ignoring his lies and hypocrisies?

YOU, my friend, are ignorant. But I'm done too. I done dealing with entitled Liberals who think they know everything, when they don't even care what their idolized dictator does! You have no true beliefs. Obama's a war monger you all still widely accept. Todays Liberals are more like Stalins Communism, Nazi Germany or Big Brother of 1984.

I'm glad we have this conversation. I always love exposing Liberals, as the violent government sympathizers they are.

According to most of you, it's FINE for government to take our Rights, kill people and spy on all of us, just as long as they "tax more."

Ignorance...

 

^I'm not going to waste any more time answering you.

You just make shit up whenever you don't have a point, and ignore whatever you don't want to hear.

BTW I've never been on welfare or food stamps, and I have absolutely no idea where you got that from... it's just one more completely insane thing you've made up to suit your narrative.

 

I was talking about your statement that'd you rather be on foodstamps, than work at Mc Donalds. I mis-read when you said "I'd choose welfare every time," and thought you meant you were on it.

I've had a good point, that's been proven already. Liberals idolize government and let them get away with murder (literally.) You think the so-called benefits of government, outweigh the bad they take part in. That is how Liberals constantly lie to themselves, to keep their belief alive.

They use extensive force to impose their will, but, just simply ignore it when declaring how "fair" they are. They really don't want to change anything. Obama works for the same bankers Bush bailed out. My point was that Liberals force everything the perceive as "good," into America's throat. But, they totally ignore any bad laws their guys sign, or silently support it.


It's good you run away now- you probably don't want to/can't defend your support for a politician as evil as Obama, anyway! Every time you open your mouth, you want to talk about how I'm lying. Am I expected to believe you can't go onto a search and look these things up?

No, you could. The thing is, you need to keep lying to yourself. (which doesnt effect me.) Every law I mentioned was true, you're just too ignorant to care. But your beliefs are so wrapped up in hypocrisies, and work in the best interest of the elites. Idk if you really don't get it, or if you're just stuck in the Political Show.

One of my biggest points was that Republicans, Democrats and, Liberals all support the same Agenda, and you have proven it. The point of all 3, is to expand government drastically, and picking on citizens as a way of justifying their HUGE budget.

Another point I made was that this government is like Nazi Germany or, "The Party" of 1984- You've proven that point because there's still alot of people like you who support government force, to impose your brand of alleged "freedom" on America. It's total government freedom, and no protection for us citizens. Armed Government police and, soldiers, scare me more than any corporate big-wig. The Liberal suggestion is that government can force away our guns, and they and criminals would be stronger than regular citizens. They leave citizens with no protection from government or, corporations. It's all a sham.

But, again, Liberals have no concerns for our Rights and Freedoms. And they have no plan to change the direction of our system (which is Crony Capitalism today.)

People like you, may not support everything Obama does, but that's like supporting Hitler and saying you don't like his extermination of the Jews; Murdering, lying and, starting wars, is a big part of Obama's policies, and I bet he's bribed to do it.

You've helped me prove my point, by echoing sentiments portrayed in Orwells book, "1984;"

"War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength."
~FragunderaRock~

So thanks for proving my point by being a jerk, whoever has been reading this topic, can see you for who you are, even if you try to ignore the violence you impose.

Liberals always love to say they don't believe in force, they just want to help people, blah, blah, blah. But it's simply not true, because when faced with the truth of Obama's violence, and Human Rights violations- Most Liberals, get either cross, or, apathetic. They don't care if their leader has done things worse than Bush- They don't even have an excuse- they just blindly follow.

Exactly like Hitler and Stalin.

That said, idc if you don't answer me. It just makes you look more ignorant, uninformed and, biased. At least I can converse- if Liberals can't get force to impose their will unquestionably, they throw a fit and no longer want to talk.

At least I can converse with someone, (even if I disagree.) Liberalism wont work, cause people are spread too thin already. Plus, America is a place which adores it's freedom. Liberals want us to give that up for "security" and government "benefits;" But it's all lies, this stuff hurts the middle class. Not only that, I'm more secure with a gun, than with a cop. (you're 8X more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist.)

So ignore me all you'd like, but I hope for you and your families sake, you really think about the reprecussions of supporting a leader unconditionally; Hitler, Stalin, Saddam and, every other Dictator has achieved power this way.

 

Yes, Obama is like Hitler.
Good point.

And you're right, I'm running away... you're definitely worth writing out massive walls of text for days and days on end to no avail, but I'm not going to do it because in my heart I know you're right.

You win the Internet!
Congrats!

 

No one can "win" the internet. It's just a connection of ideas from other individuals. I was responding to your texts, and I didn't ask you for "walls" of text, but if one believes in something, I'd expect them to have some defense for the bad qualities.

I understand where your beliefs come from. I'm not trying to be a dick, and, I don't want you to say "I know you're right" because it's probably sarcasm- It's only my intention to get you to question why the government does these things, which are so blatantly against the best interests of the US citizens.

I know I was a bit of a dick, but you were too, so that's neither here nor there. But, I encounter people like you all the time, you think I want to write walls of text? I did it to get you thinking about the issues, and hopefully get you thinking about where this country is headed, and if the government should police the world, and kill people for speech crimes. To me, to sponsor a government which enforces such policies, is virtually the same as supporting those policies. And these policies are in favor, and benefit the Elite and that proven by the biggest transfer of wealth to the top 1% of our country. This is due to more taxes and more government, so why would that be a solution?

Anyway, I'm trying to get you to think outside a biased mind-frame. I was possibly wasting my time, but I hope you at least take a second look into what you believe, and, the policies Obama controls.

I thought I supported him in 2008, but I didn't support this violence, these lies, these wars or, this disregard of the Constitution- and he lied to get the vote. I didn't vote for him at all though, (thank god.)

But look around you- evidence of foul play is everywhere.

 

Only makes sense to a parasitic freeloader with a strong sense of entitlement. I like to earn my money.

 

You're just saying that because of the way it makes you feel, not because it actually makes sense.

Logically, if you can achieve the same result with a minimum of effort, it makes more sense to do so.

 

What doesn't make sense to me is the willingness to take other people's money when perfectly capable of earning the money for yourself. That seems highly illogical to me.

Maybe it's my pride, self worth, and complete disdain for the now common sense of entitlement that prevents me from sucking the tax payers tit. And I prefer it that way.

 

This is usually the point where we run into problems, because some people just aren't capable of understanding that money is a means of providing a certain standard of life for yourself, not a merit badge earned for being a good, honest person.

I'm not saying that welfare is great and everyone should be on welfare, I'm saying that if wages were higher and the potential for social mobility were there, then there would be more incentive to work.

 

I wasn't going to respond to this, but it's too infuriating not to, especially since I've already said it.

I'M NOT IN LOVE WITH OBAMA.

I don't think he's a god.
I don't think he's perfect.
I don't agree with everything he does or has done.
I'm not American.
I didn't vote for him.
I don't think drone strikes are wonderful.
I don't think PRISM or surveillance or any of that stuff is fantastic.

YOU are the one with the unbalanced perspective because you seem to think that EVERYTHING he does is bad and wrong, whereas I'm willing to admit that there were at least some decent attempts to improve things mixed in with all of the BS.

I've met some pretty sharp libertarians who were actually worth the effort, but you're not one of them. You don't even seem to really have much of a sense of what a Libertarian believes... you're just angry that things aren't perfect and blame everything on the government. You talk about the bad things Obama has done as if they could have all been so easily avoided, regurgitate Fox News, and write off anyone who doesn't agree with you as an Obama-loving drone who can't think for themselves before attributing to them all kinds of beliefs that they don't even have. Seriously, every post you make builds an ARMY of straw men.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a prerecorded message, or like one of those programs con artists use to simulate live sex shows online or something. It's not helping you, and it's not helping me.

I think it would be best if we just agreed to disagree.

 

Ha! PLEASE, dude! You want me to admit that Obama has done 1 good thing? You're right- he has. He gave Bob Dylan a peace metal. As I said, support someone is the same as supporting their policies.

Instead of defending your views you're dissing on me and lying about me. I barely even watch fox. I watch RT and BBC world news more- I watched fox, as much as any other mainstream propaganda station (CNN.)

Where are you from? Do you care about the Constitution? Do you think government is above the law? What "good" has Obama done in the way of Human Rights or freedom?