Nelson Mandela: A mass murderer and terrorist

So other than the fact that there was no slavery, it's the same thing as slavery?

The apartheid was bad enough on its own. There's no need to call it something that it wasnt.

 

How on earth did you reach that ridiculous conclusion?

 

The irony of you admonishing someone else for putting words in your mouth, then turning around and doing the same to me...

 

You said:

You then went on to argue just that.

 

I don't think he put words in anyone's mouth. They targeted children. And you said that "it could be argued" that they were valid targets.

 

Got halfway through and got bored.

Well, lol, have I heard some stories... I'm glad I was born after the apartheid shit. I've still witnessed some pretty strong echoes of that shit as a child around 96/97.. big, heavily armoured police riot vans driving round the streets with a bunch of white guys pointing their rifles at blacks as they pass by, laughing to one another, mocking them.. that was considered a pass time.
"Fireworks" when I was going to bed coming from the townships near by...(it was really the police "passing the time". At least they had the decency to wait until after dark....)

And you guys must have heard about the AWB? South Africa's even more religiously deluded version of the KKK? The basic premise was that the black man was put on earth by God for the white man to hunt for sport.

The mentality of South Africa was FUCKED, I can almost guarantee that the "innocents" killed in those bombings were not as innocent as everyone claimed they were. Ultimately, it's not their fault, it's hard to break out of your social mould if you're raised to see that that blacks aren't equal... but Madiba, and all his followers, did what needed to be done for "the greater good". Martin Luther King shit wouldn't have worked over here, I guarantee it.. SA was, and still is, a very close minded nation. After a couple generations die off we should be good, but hey.

 

Slavery does not necessary require CHATTEL slavery, you know. There are many different forms of slavery other than the owning of human beings. Serfdom was a form of slavery (in which the peasants were bound to land owned by a lord or noble and forced to work it for him. They were not property, but they were slaves in every other way. And that's actually very similar (although not identical) to how apartheid functioned. Blacks couldn't own land or businesses in 'white' areas, and the only jobs they could get involved working FOR whites without having any recourse otherwise. Rather close to serfdom when you think about it.

 

Nope. I went on to say that it is one viewpoint and way of looking at things, not that I necessarily agreed with it completely. Try again.

 

Pathetic

 

That isn't even remotely close to the legal apparatus of Apartheid. Blacks were, in no way, tied to the land they worked. The could come and go from their place of work as they pleased. Apartheid was, in almost every aspect imaginable, like the segregation seen in the southern United States.

 

interesting. Differs so very much from what I have heard from South Africans I know, both black and white. I guess it shows that even in RSA opinions aren't always set.

 

Changing ones mind changes behavior. Interested?

 

I find it ironic when North Americans hold up Nelson Mandela as a hero while treating the First Nations like absolute garbage, polluting their homes and giving their lands to the rich to build mines and golf courses and generally fuck up the ecosystems.

If the First Nations people had a Nelson Mandela, he would be called a terrorist and sent to Guantanamo Bay... but since it's in South Africa, he's a hero.

Americans always want to compare the end of apartheid to MLK/civil rights because they only see black people-- but that's not accurate at all. MLK and the blacks aren't natives here either.

This is a case of the native peoples getting pissed off and taking back their land... and the hypocrisy is staggering.

 

It's sort of cool.


Lots of the crazies are posting in here.


It makes it so much easier to keep track of who they are. I already knew about Pressed Rat.

Now I know some others.

 

I think Pressed_rat is thinking along the lines that the ends don't justify the means. But justification depends on your vantage point. No one knows what they are capable of doing in any situation until that situation presents itself. No one knows if they can stick by their beliefs or values in a given situation until they endure it. What we were in the past is not necessary what we are now (I believe we are not the same person moment to moment). What we are now is what is important in the here and now.

I can easily see P'S point of view - it's hard to believe that violence is the answer to anything. However, I can't "Monday morning quarterback" something that I haven't lived through.

Can we not all agree that even though even though it seems that there should be a nonviolent way to handle any situation it's sometimes not possible to realize this in certain circumstances and that in the end, Nelson Mandela became a person to be admired, even though some of his previous actions warrant condemnation.

I'm on my phone so I'm not proof reading - I hope I made sense.

 

There’s strong evidence african aborigines were living here in the americas 60,000 years ago, long before the arrival of native americans who crossed the land bridge from asia 20,000 years ago.

The same aborigines who arrived an australia 60,000 years ago.



Hotwater

 

this thread delivers

 

Well stated.

 

Oh please. When have you ever known Sig to make a post expressing concern about black children? Neither one of us are going to live long enough to see that happen.

 

I don't think that this is in any way relevant.

If it IS true, then they died out long ago... unlike the First Nations, who are still around today. I don't even know what it is you're implying by bringing this up.