Politics and politicians all have the same goal, regardless of political party or country, enslave the people and reap the fruitage of thier works..it is all a facade and trap and the people buy it and eat it like porridge
but certain agencies are needed like the FDA, although, they are not perfect. I want whatever that is going to make me sick or kill me recalled.....
Maybe that should be the only thing government should do is make sure that the earth and it's inhabitants are taken care of in a sustainable manner and DO NO HARM. I don't see either of those things happening except on a very tiny scale. I cannot grasp why people think their votes count for anything when money and corrupted power are what run everything. I think most people (not all) are pretty well able to see the problems. In my own experience, the BEST people who are interested in joining the political realms because they honestly want to try to help, they don't have a chance in hell of winning enough votes. And even if one or two manage to get voted "in", they are ridiculed and left out and basically pulling a train uphill in the mud. We have the concept of us versus them solely due to this. Politics is all about divisiveness. You've heard of divide and conquer. And while everyone is sitting there not knowing what they are talking about because of confusion created on purpose for mass consumption, they do whatever they like, the rest of us be damned... Nothing I care to participate in at all... I find any time i get interested a "political" situation (example- the Ukraine or Venezuela, or even protests in the US I spend most of my time just trying to figure out what it is REALLY all about and the more you look the less you know. I've come to the conclusion we were not MEANT to know the realities, it's done simply to confuse and keep people divided and arguing.
Thumb I didn’t say you could not have an opinion, I was just asking what it was and why you have it and why are you come here (a debating forum) to promote it? Also just holding a opinion does not mean that opinion valid or any good. Someone could have the opinion that the earth was flat, it doesn’t make that opinion true or more valid than the view it is spherical. And how can we work out if your ideas are any good if you refuse to answer questions about them? Well you’ve clearly failed, I mean I’ve asked you several times to explain what you would do and you don’t seem to know. So what action are you taking? What makes them the BEST - what are their policies and why would they help? You seem to be saying people shouldn’t vote to me the problem with that is that others will vote and traditionally those that regularly vote are the conservative and right wing. Now we have had others here promoting the don’t vote line who turned out to have right wing leanings are you one of those?
Balbus, I do not play the pick apart game. I also don't find "debating" with people who profess to not understand me to be anything but a supreme waste of time. Anyone with half a mind who can think understands what I say. I am into EDUCATING those who are honestly ignorant (living under a rock?) And doing actions that make the world, even my small corner of it, a better place. I do NOT sit and wait for someone else to do things or say things that need done or said. My ideas and opinions resonate with a LOT of people, I have numerous fans who see the value in what I write about. Therefore it has value. I am completely secure in the knowledge that IF a person is ready to hear and grasp a thing, they will. If not, I at least tried. But I have no desire to beat a dead horse and therefore I really do not do debate with much relish. I form my own opinions. I am not stupid. If you grasp what I say, good. If not, oh well. Now, I am tired of talking about myself. Have a nice day.
Oh, and Balbus, I notice that even tho others are in agreement with what I am saying (so someone obviously understands) it is only MY posts that you wish to pick apart. And in doing so you seem to wish to dominate the conversation with useless baggage. Why is that?
For Balbus - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOz7sWMBg6Y "Pickapart" So there aint no need to pickapart me Cause what you get aint what you see I said a little fucked up, a little crazy But there aint no need to pickapart me Going down the road nobody gonna get in my way Nothing gonna stop old me from finding myself a new day And as long as I don't hurt no one, I don't be hurting no one I still say Nothing gonna stop old me from finding myself a new day I said and nothing going to stop me or you Hell no... So there aint no need to pickapart me Cause what you get aint what you see I said a little fucked up, a little crazy But there aint no need to pickapart me I got four hail marys flying over my head Trying to make me sad everyday Gonna shot those little motherfuckers down With my positive artillery Cause it doesn't really matter who you listen to or who Ya gonna believe I said nothing really stopping me or anybody else From going and being free Nothing gonna stop you Or me hell no No nothing gonna stop me or you. Hell no
Thumb There are 27 posts in this thread 14 are yours 4 mine that leaves 9 and only 3 of them three seem to be totally uncritical of what you say and they are - Post 2 - I like that Post 3 - Sounds about right to me! Post 21 - Politics and politicians all have the same goal, regardless of political party or country, enslave the people and reap the fruitage of thier works..it is all a facade and trap and the people buy it and eat it like porridge Are these your ‘others’?
Thumb Then why have you come to a debating forum? The people who say such stuff are usually those that know their ideas would quickly fall about if looked at; you not a con artist are you? That’s the ‘emperor has no cloths gambit – the conmen say that only those with half a brain wouldn’t see how fine their cloths are and the emperor not wanting to seem stupid goes walking out in the nude. Are you trying to con people? Education involves questioning and debate and through that letting people make up their own minds, you just seem to want people to accept unquestioningly what you say – you don’t seem to want questions or debate so are you trying to educate or con people? Yet you are unable to say what you do. But you don’t seem to be doing anything, I keep asking you what you do and you refuse to answer. OK so maybe one of those ‘fans’ can come here and explain and debate your ‘ideas’ because you clearly can’t Even shit has value but it still stinks. I prefer something more tangible and substantial before I sign up to anything – I don’t think people should be just blind followers or unquestioning fans - I want them to think for themselves. I understand you have no desire to let people see you ideas for what they might be - like in the story of the emperor’s new clothes Yet you are uneasy in your ability to defend your ideas in open debate and so let people make up their own minds as to their merit.
Dear Balbus. Is this your idea of "debate"? I decided to post because I love to DISCUSS. There is a difference, you know. Debate connotes arguing, which I am not interested in at all. Do not make the mistake of thinking I came here and started posting without first spending much time reading and noticing that you tend to hijack many threads with your holier than thou pick-apart game. you seem to think that the entire politics forum should be about you and what you want. Is this how you drive away people who do not play your games? Do you even remember what this thread was about? Because quite frankly. you make it difficult if not impossible to keep sight of the OP. But seeing how you INSIST on making this all about you, then I will take this opportunity to say that you are barking up the WRONG TREE with your little game. I do NOT enjoy talking about myself ad nauseum, nor do I normally fill my conversations with tooting my own horn. And i find that others who do that to be particularly boorish. I did not post here to please you. I came here to actually have discussions with others who have at least a rudimentary knowledge of how to converse. But unfortunately, as I can see from many of your previous "conversations", you are more interested in attempting to make yourself "right" while making someone else "wrong" than you are in having intelligent conversation.. I REFUSE to do that on any level, either here or in the "real world". Arguing for the sake of arguing is at best a soap opera/drama mindset. It creates divisiveness. And with all the problems in the world today, any divisiveness is PART OF THE PROBLEM. Yes, I read the "rules" of Hipforums AND of the politics forum. It seems you alone have created the idea that every post MUST be a debate. As opposed to civil conversation. Well, you know what? MOST sane people will get so sick of sifting thru your picky diatribes that they will give up. I assume that is your point, as it probably feeds your ego immensely. And yes, I realize that being a "mod" you cannot be blocked, yet you would be the FIRST person I and many people would block, as your ranting is far too distracting to be able to keep on track. I'm sure you have discovered that being relentless is a great way to be a big fish in a small pond, and you seem to relish that. But what do you REALLY have then? At best you have a forum where any new people will be mostly intimidated into giving up. At worst, you are some kind of paid troll. Now, I suggest You give it up, as I am apparently not on your level at all (nor possibly even on your planet), and your understanding of the simple concept of normal give and take in a conversation seems to be extremely lacking. Now, what was the original post about again? Yea, right. You really do not care do you? You are not here to do anything but disrupt. Now, I feel I have met the qualifications for "attempting to work out issues with the moderator first", and have actual witnesses. From now on, i would prefer you to keep your posts simple and short and to the point. Lets hear what YOU believe and what YOU do, rather than disassembling and misrepresenting what I believe.
Thumb How do you discuss something when you refuse to answer question and will not explain or clarify anything you say? I mean so far you’ve shown no willingness or aptitude for discussion. * DISCUSS – “to consider or examine by argument” (Random House Dictionary) Roget’s Thesaurus – argument, debate, dispute.
Thumb I’m happy to go back to it here are my original questions – My theory is that "politics" is for people who don't get so much into sports or activities and have too much time on their hands. And you base this theory on what? It's just another kind of sport with ever changing rules that you cannot pin down Is having an interest in sport or politics or any other activity a bad thing in you view? Maybe it would be considered a compulsion or obsession. Is having fun a compulsion or obsession, is been interested in anything a compulsion or obsession is enjoying Game of Thrones or the Big Bang Theory a compulsion or obsession? Again what are you basing you ideas on? It gets nothing done And you evidence for this is what? And politicians must like being stuck in the mud. Because that's what it would be like. Constantly banging your head against walls and getting nothing much done except enlarging your bank account. And you evidence for thinking all politicians are corrupt? Us "civilians" don't even get paid for having the discussion! You want to be paid to do things you are interested in otherwise you wouldn’t do them? We may as well be discussing the latest fashion or piece of art like some snob in a suit. To you anyone interested in fashion is a slut and anyone interested in art is a snob? We need to get out of the political muck of "you are right and I am left" or "you are wrong and I am right" and simply start DOING. What would you DO? It's the only chance we have of rising above slavedom and reclaiming our souls. What the hell are you going on about?
1. I base my theory on what I see, my experience. That's what anyone bases their opinions on. 2. No. So you are admitting debating politics is in the same category as being interested in sports. 3. ...and that you do it purely for the fun of it. I see. 4.My evidence for all of it is what I see. 5. i never said all politicians are corrupt. I said they can effect no real change 6.You completely bypassed my point. of course I don't think I should be paid for (name random nonsense here)........ Nor would anyone else. 7. You totally made up that idea and you expect me to respond.... Stick with facts please. 8.What would I do is what I do. Organize, get in the public eye, live alternatively, advise, use the arts. Some people join organizations, go to protests, and a few brave souls actually try to join in the realms of government in hopes of reform. But they don't have much luck as a rule. 9. What in the hell am I going on about? Aha! THIS is the point where I can safely say that you seem to be starving for enlightenment. What I am "going on about" is that we live IN the Matrix. Blind, and slaves to our egos, our demands and the system that we created. That system is THE BEAST. Those who are in some stage of awake-ness recognize this and ACT in whatever ways they can. It is hard to refrain from doing so. The rest will sleep until they don't. and that is all. Everyone is wherever they are on the enlightenment timeline. You cannot force a person to understand a thing if they are not ready. I see that you starve for knowledge, power, attention. But it seems that you are not ready to understand certain things. No one's fault.
I guess what I am going on about is that "politics" is like mud. And in my experience, once one has become a moving piece in the puzzle, it is uninteresting to move back to the mud of dissecting a thing you cannot change by doing so.
Thumb My theory is that "politics" is for people who don't get so much into sports or activities and have too much time on their hands. Well I don’t know what or how wide you experience is or even how old you are but in my experience people are people with lots of interests and that is the same for those interested in politics as everyone else, they have jobs, family, they go to films, support football teams, play sports and so on and so on. Are you saying that all the people you know have only one interest? If they like sport they can’t like politics, or music or dancing or anything else and the same if have an interest in politics they can’t like anything else. If so I really think you need to go out and meet more people. Again you seem to think things are mutually exclusive, it is either politic or sport - people cannot have an interest in both, or an interest in multiple things. Yes I like debating politics but I also like climbing and running and playing with my child or reading a novel or watching a film and so on and so on…just because someone likes politics does not mean they cannot enjoy other things. If that is what experience has taught you I think you need to get out more often. You said of politicians in general were getting nothing much done except enlarging their bank account. That seems to imply that all politicians were only in politics for the money they could get. Anyway what do you mean they can effect no real change, what in your opinion is ‘real change’. Because it seems to me changes go on all the time. You said - Us "civilians" don't even get paid for having the discussion! So what point were you trying to make? You said - We may as well be discussing the latest fashion or piece of art like some snob in a suit. So I asked if you thought anyone interested in fashion is a slut and anyone interested in art is a snob? I mean that’s what you seemed to be saying and I was asking for clarification. It wasn’t made up it is what you said. Again this idea that if you do one thing you can’t do another. I mean people in organisations organise, protesters get in the public eye, people in politics advice. And debate is at the heart of it all, people need discuss why and what to organise for instance. Sorry but you think saying ‘we live IN the Matrix’ and ‘the system is THE BEAST’ is somehow explaining you ideas and philosophy, because it isn’t. You don’t seem to be talking politic but religion with all this stuff about enlightenment, you seem more into some mystical voodoo than reality.
1. I never said people only have one interest. What a ridiculous idea. I was making a thing called a COMPARISON. 2. Read and UNDERSTAND #1. 3. Let me clarify. We "discuss" politics. We are not paid to do so, obviously. Professional politicians get paid. But if they have positive ideas as opposed to negative ones, they are outnumbered. Changes happen all the time, but very very rarely GOOD ones. 4. Other than that, I have no answers for you I have not already answered. If you look up the word "discuss" and stop cherrypicking, you will find that "debate" or "arguing" are only 2 of an entire list of ways to discuss a thing. I am used to discussing things in a civil and intelligent manner, with clarity in mind as I have no time for nonsense. Apparently you are not. That is unfortunate as you come across as an extremely toxic human being. I am sorry if you cannot accept that spirituality and enlightenment are the very things that are lacking in the political world. Which is the problem, as you cannot remove these things from anything in life without poor results. They are the foundation of good thinking and good interaction. If you bring bad or wrong energies to the table you will get bad energies back. It really is that simple and works in any subject. Trying to remove the concepts of the spirit from politics has created a truely rotten beast.
I also might point out that as you say, you know absolutely nothing about me, for all you know I could be a famous author, a professional politician, a psychologist, or any number of things. I could be the president for all you know. I could be an enlightened being. Or a homeless bum on the street. I see that you have very far to go in the process of understanding, and in that light you have a very long row to hoe indeed.
I disagree with you actually, I think details can shed just as much truth and good stuff as well as conceal stuff. Details, are hard work to hash out, and discuss sometimes, and I think where the 'evil devils' lie in this quote, has to do with exploiting the fact that people don't do in-depth research on political topics. I would just as equally say that the "devil and his demons" function better and can cause confusion more easily and effectively when details aren't discussed, and only broad and vague statements are issued to the public, it fosters deception. --- That being said, I think for the purposes you raise in the OP, can be answered and reflected by looking at the political philosophies of John Locke, and Thomas Hobbs, about why and how government comes about to exist in the first place. Some of you said that a political structure of government isn't necessary, I disagree. I can certainly agree that a lot of the bureaucracy can be cut down in government, a lot of it is actually the human social ego drivin vindictiveness. It's why pet projects get started in government, or allocated to get shut down it's not always about the budget, it's very much about who your boss is and who your boss likes best, and will therefore use their authority to approve/continue or disapprove/discontinue certain spending projects. (the public sees this as wasteful spending, earmarks, etc.) Also even though I get your point, everyone has different views of what needs to be "done", and unless both camps are equal in their voter swaying power, the strong of the two is going to win on a particular issue, in a particular region with a particular legislator/legislation. --- In the USA, you've got to amend the constitution to restrict the effects private $ (from corporations, unions, banks) have on public policy making, and campaigns. Because as it is, the Supreme Court has ruled, that $ given to campaigns is a form of "Free speech" and therefore can't be restricted/limited under the 1st Amendment. ---
Monkir, i agree with most of what you say. Anarchy is only viable as a means to a new end. ANY group large enough must enforce some kind of policies, no matter how minimal, and that set up springs naturally from human interaction. Not every human is equipped with sense enough to totally take charge of themselves. There will always be leaders and followers. I also understand your statement about details being important to the GOAL. This of course assumes that you HAVE a goal besides just finding things to argue about for entertainment sake. There are many levels of politics (or anything else), like layers of an onion. It depends on what it is. Of course those of us who are active must discuss details in order for our actions to be successful. My op was more addressing those who just sit and talk politics as a form of entertainment. And most usually, as in many other realms of life, once a person gets too caught up in the details, that's where all the drama and problems come from. I find in daily life to keep your eye on the bigger picture and not get so bloody caught up in the details is the best way to stay sane and focused on "the prize" whatever that may be.
balbus. You have nitpicked my posts to death, but I do not see you doing any actual debating. I have yet to figure out your angle. You seem to only desire to discredit what I say without posing any counter argument. So, in your attempt to force "debate" you have not done any debating yourself. What are YOUR positions and ideas on the subject? Do you have any? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate Give us something to debate then. Just as an afterthought, are you autistic? http://www.aspminds.com/abstractthinking.html THAT could explain a lot.
