Is enlightenment the only thing that matters?

Being a good person is more important

 

OK, I regret saying there's more evidence for the Buddha, because now I'm expected to defend that. I don't really have the knowledge to do that. I guess what I should have said is that I believe the Buddha story, but I don't believe the Jesus story.

 

The evidence that either of them even existed is slim, although I believe the weight of the evidence is that both were real historical people. There are also good reasons to believe that Jesus was crucified. Belief in His resurrection is a matter of faith. Belief in the Buddha's enlightenment is a matter of opinion and judgment. If he taught what is attributed to him, in my judgment he was enlightened. In fact, I think Buddhism reinforces the enlightened teachings of Jesus. I call myself a Christian primarily because I think Jesus was more enlightened in his emphasis on positive concern for society's rejects. The Buddhist beliefs in karma and non-involvement can get in the way of that, as can Calvinist teachings on predestination. For many evangelicals, salvation, not enlightenment, is the important thing. The Gnostics were into enlightenment, but they lost the battle for control of Christian dogma. BTW, a major difference between Buddhism and Christianity is that the historical existence of the Buddha is unimportant to Buddhists, but the historical existence of Jesus is important to most Christians.

 

Good post.

I just want to say that maybe you are overlooking the Buddhist emphasis on compassion and service.

 

well, I don't know much about the enlightenment traditions.

It does seem though that the goal isn't to be better than everyone else, but perhaps to be everyone else.

So I think the idea may be that you awaken to an awareness that yourself includes everyone and there is nothing which is attained, it was with you all along, you just come to understand.

there do seem to be traditions though where those who have realized enlightenment get to sit on thrones and such. that does seem like a contradiction, I don't know what explanation there is for that.

 

Enlightenment teaches that food on plate and tiger asleep have priority. Hard to be buddha on empty belly with tiger eating ass.
So, then the most blessed man stands up, looks around, exhales and goes back to watching plum.blossom and tiger movement.

 

They have many similarities, but distinct differences.
Buddha is enlightened about the plight of lepers, jesus fixes them
Buddha focuses on personal attainment, jesus focuses on divine consciousness

The similarities make for a good "inner/outer" perspective and when speaking of the serene followers of both doctrines, they would mix in a room being "excellent to each other" - the weak and weak minded of course can not do that because they are too insecure and get things out of religion that are.....less than divine.

 

the problem with enlightenment is in how you define it. caring about the conditions everyone has to experience, not excluding yourself and not excluding others. caring ENOUGH to persue an understanding of HOW conditions experienced ARE ACTUALLY CREATED.

to me, there is no truer enlightenment, then that.

and you're not going to get that by fallowing some magical cook book.

but its really not that complicated. individual priorities concatinate statitically to create universally experienced incentives, which then motivate decisions which create conditions. no one person creates them, usually. nor is most of what we experience entirely our own doing. but all of us together, every last one of us, are the one tiny part of it that we are.

that's why things like enough people boycotting something work. and if enough people boycotted aggressiveness, we would all move on to a much more enlightened world.

 

Haha no, it just makes you wholly ignorant or dismissive of historical writings describing both, taken by most grown up people as evidence of existence at the least.

Being skeptical of something does not really rank high on enlightenment symptoms but that's ok, for idiots.

 

Which has been my main point from the start.
:devil:

 

That's the question alright - what is enlightenment?

I'm not sure that the Buddhist idea of it is enough, or even correct.
We benefit from many kinds of activities not aimed specifically at enlightenment in that sense. Science, medicine etc.