Passenger plane crashes near Ukraine border, possibly shot down, 295 on board

They're essentially using the bodies as a bargaining chip for a ceasefire.

Amazing.

 

Who?

I think the dutch just want the bodies back (for relatives and friends), and the personal belongings that go with them. The fact that those russian seperatists are making that unneccessary difficult and have been (allowing others to) snooping through those belongings is what is pissing everybody off here.

 

searching for credit cards and other means of identity theft.

 

Rescue workers have recovered a "black box" flight recorder from the wreckage of Flight MH17. More info here: http://bit.ly/1k5BBGP This footage shows a rescue worker showing the orange-coloured box to a colleague whilst searching the crash site of the Malaysian airliner. Ukraine's government claims the plane was shot down by a militant missile. The images were just released, but were initially recorded on Friday

see video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BO0-Qif9YU&list=PLQGafvQUGoG3zOQuONFrcotbsnnVxPdXG

 

Then they bring them to the factory
Where the heart-attack machine
Is strapped across their shoulders
And then the kerosene

 

Or else...what?

 

you know what i mean. you're smart enough to be silly like that.

unless you think the atmosphere isn't attached to the Earth. ??

no, i wasn't arguing relativity or atmospheric science with you.

i was talking about the calculation of a heading in air travel. you implied as if the future position of the destination (i.e. Earth's rotation) influences the calculation of a bearing, which it doesn't. what you're talking about, the reason why flying certain headings takes shorter than taking the same route in reverse is because of the tailwind/headwind and jet streams if the aircraft is using them. jet streams significantly reduce flight times. jet streams can also significantly increase flight times, if you have to fly against them. that's the reason behind the time differential between the same but reverse-direction routes.

 

yeah, unfortunately this track has been on the loop ever since this mess began. the worst putin has gotten out of his offenses in Ukraine is some verbal threats. and they mean nothing since nobody has yet to take action against him where it really matters.

so yeah, unfortunately, or-else-what sums it up pretty precisely.

 

Propaganda

This downed aircraft could be the next Lucitania. Scary to think.

 

I'm not yet convinced of exactly what the facts are and who the "bad guys" are yet. I know what I've heard but if history tells me anything, it's that there are a lot of things happening that we're aren't being informed of and a lot of different entities with something at stake who want us to believe their version of events.

Russia could have downed the jet, the separatists could have, the US or Ukraine could have done it to blame someone else, it could also be that someone wanted someone on that plane dead and it was seen as convenient opportunity to get rid of that person and escalate an entirely unrelated situation. Could have been to draw attention away from Gaza and escalate the Ukrainian situation. So many different possibilities. But one thing I'm almost sure of is that what the media is telling us is probably not exactly what happened.

 

i see the ukrainians havent changed since the wartime

luggage falls from miles in the sky and lands empty..barely damaged.

........with zippers gently opened

 

right. because putin is the good guy for invading Ukraine, annexing Crimea, supporting the rebels, and creating the whole circumstances that allowed for such a disaster to occur in the first place. really hard to see how he is the bad guy in this whole situation.

i'd imagine US has much better ways to get the blame across than to down a civilian airliner.

what a coincidence the plane was brought down right over eastern Ukraine then. or how that ''someone'' negotiated with putin/russia and the separatists in the region to get the necessary equipment and personnel into the area to shoot it down. because putin certainly didn't foresee the international shitstorm coming his way after such an act.

and because there sure aren't simpler options to get rid of a person. if you're gonna kill someone does it make sense to you to kill 298 instead of just the one you need dead? why ever take the shortest way home when you can take one that is more than 298 times longer, huh?

right. not all of those ''possibilities'' have equal probabilities though, and some don't even make any sense.

and this doesn't explain how there is such a huge consensus on this matter. there isn't much mysterious or inexplicable about this situation once you get yourself acquainted with it. people aren't really divided on this thing, which happens when facts are much more difficult to make out.

the media might not have all the facts, and it might be allured by more sensationalist proposals to draw audiences, but the media doesn't have anything to gain from lying and nowadays the western media doesn't get away with outright lying. stretching some of the facts and wording, sure, but printing something that has no basis in facts, no. that would be the end of that particular publisher.

one cannot be as skeptic as you are being. not everything is of questionable authority.

if the simple fact that a civilian airliner was shot down over a region where russia is involved militarily and where the separatists had shot down a number of other aircraft within a week prior to this, one of the planes from an altitude of 21,000 ft, doesn't drive the obvious parts home for you then i don't know what will.

 

I'm not saying any of those things happened. I was just making up examples. I'm simply saying that I don't know what happened and I don't trust the media to tell me. And yes...the media absolutely can get away with telling us something that is 100% false and suffer no ramifications because the "consumers" who dwell in those respective vacuums don't care and don't want to know anything that questions their current mindset. For the most part, the advertisers don't care as long as it doesn't hurt them and they get to run their ads to an accepting audience.

But to be clear...I don't know what happened. That's my main point.

 

There's reasonable skepticism and then there's what you're doing, which borders on delusional paranoia.

If you want to be a free thinker, then you should actually think.

 

The blood of this disaster is on the hands of Obama and his poodles over in Ldon and elsewhere.

Regardless of how the plane went down.

It was Obama and Co who overthrew a democracy, and installed a junta composed of Neo Nazis and Far Right Nationalists. It was Obama who helped them attack and murder 100s of innocent men, women and children in Donbass, and ofcourse Odessa and elsewhere.
And it was Obama demanded they terrorised these people, or lose the IMF loans they were promised.

Obama and the people behind him just cant stop lying. Its just like the "bringing democracy to Arabia" lies. The "Saddam's WMD" lies. The "Assad used chemical weapons" lies, the flight MH 370 lies, and all the rest.

America AND the Ukraine have shot down jetliners before, on numerous occasions - for instance IranAir, the TWA jet exactly 18 yrs before , and the Russian jet over the Ukraine.

America knows the stakes are high. Dollar hegemony is virtually gone. So they are trying a rerun of the "OPeration Northwoods" plan to try and discredit the Donbass Resistance.

Its lies from start to finish from Obama. For him to defend the slaughter of men, women and children in their homes in Donbass is terrorism pure and simple. Those who defend the Ukrainian junta, those who support the Ukrainian junta, those who write propagandist lies against the Donbass Resistance... they're no better than Al Qaeda or any other band of terrorists.

The truth will all come out eventually. Like the "Saddam's WMD" lies etc etc. And the Neo-Con war machine will be onto the next pack of lies.

One day this will all come back to haunt America. And for many people in Europe, Asia, Latin America and elsewhere, that day cant come soon enough.

RIP the passengers on MH17 and all the men women and children murdered by the Kiev junta in Donetsk, Lugansk, Odessa and elsewhere.

 

Its interesting that a guy at the heart of the Anglo American military Establishment writes this:-
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/19/the-mh17-shoot-down-over-ukraine/

Its also amazing just how childish those are that commit these sorts of atrocities.
They remind me of schoolkids with secret handshakes and codewords:-
Just look at Christine Lagarde - head of the IMF talking about numerology no less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw

Interesting how the Ukraine was mentioned back in March in relat to MH370
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y9NM7s71rw
(there's better, longer vids, but I cant be bothered to find one). And now by (ahem) "coincidence" another Malaysian jet goes down, loaded with numerological "coincidences"

Gives an idea what sort of people head up the Ango-American alliance. Britain's is riddled with homosexual paedophiles in govt (as I've been saying for ages). And in America, they just cant stop themselves murdering civillians to prop up the Dollar, whilst kissing the ass of their Lodge Masters.

PS I cant reply to any posts. If anyone's too brainwashed to denialist to accept who's behind it, I suggest they look at the Russian blogs translated/their press version of events. And the history of the Ukraine as part of Russia/USSR.

 

The OSCE have said they haven't had problems. But unfortunately the gutter press in Britain, the US etc have send their lie machine into overdrive.

And whats pissing everyone off in Donbass is having their mothers, fathers, children etc killed by shellfire and missiles most days.

PS Its arguably better to describe them as federalists rather than separatists. Yes they'd love to join Russia/be independent, but they also have an affinity with their fellow Russian speakers in the Central, even the Western Ukraine etc.
Their aim was always federalism, but there has been so much mindless slaughter and terrorism against them, even a federal single Ukraine is looking even less workable.

 

Do you seriously blame Obama for the shot down plane in the Ukraine?
I might as well blame him for it being too hot here today....
WOW! He must rule the world then, and what is in the heart and mind of every man...He has more power than I thought.
He must be god....has to be.

 

I wonder how many pets went down with this plane, as well...never any mention of them.....and lewding, I heard, has been going on? Taking people's wallets and jewelry? What a wonderful world we live in,.

and now it is being proposed to carry missles on each plane to counter attack....

 

Do not think I will ever fly again......