Isis Releases Video Beheading 21 Egyptian Coptic Christians

I agree, that stuff is easier said than done. And yes, it is also very reasonable they're not attacking Israel at the moment.

For the people who say that this whole ISIS thing is fake, it seems they think the whole middle east is a stage that can nicely be used to manipulate the west. Now, I am not saying we're not getting manipulated (we are), but Meliai makes a good point. If one never notice how chaotic the situation in Libya actually is at the moment, and if one never notice all these victims on the run (in refugee camps or the ones who arrived in the west), and their stories (they really are not all fake stories) and hear what they experienced. There is so much more to take notice of than just the articles in the paper or at the 8 o clock news (not talking about conspiracy websites) that you have to be a freaking idiot to think ISIS is not really inflicting terror on the people there. They are not the only ones warring in the middle east (Syria was already in a civil war before they came along), and there are many conflicts, intolerance and power struggles there that come together and explode in this current mess. To say what is happening there is primarily an issue to control american citizens.... well dude, that sounds unhealthy.

 

public manipulation from american media will always be present, 100% of the time. im sure most intelligent people will accept that.



here is where the conspiracy theorists' logic will break down:

american media is manipulative, therefore everything they say is not true.

american media is talking about the radical muslim threat, therefore a radical muslim threat is not true.



im glad there are alot of logical people on this board that agree that this type of thinknig is a clear mistake and can even be our weakness. im not saying lets all get into this islamaphobic state of panic that the news wants, but we do have to take this a real threat in order to make intelligent decisions.

 

every interesting, thanks.

 

The news here (north west europe) is not so uniform, at least not about getting us all in an islamophobic state of panic. It seems though that it is not primarily the news who is out to get us in a polarizing stance against islam as a whole: it is ISIS themselves who are out to do this.

 

yes that is very true, as the artcle posted by southpaw shows, they are looking to start an "apocalypse".

 

That article is from "the Atlantic" a neo-con trumpet for the military industrial complex. Keepin' the fear alive!

 

I had my doubts about it too but stopped reading pretty soon. Seemed lengthy

 

It's a trap.

You cannot kill your way out of everything, specifically if your enemy gains nothing through surrender and everything by sustaining casualties from your attacks.

People with enough won't risk it in order to have a shot at taking more. People with nothing have nowhere to go but up, and ideology (muslim, christian, or other) quickly adapts to harsh situations in which people need a justification for brutality (that which they suffer, and that which they do). De-radicalizing people and their ideology and educating them into a strong healthy culture takes a lot longer than trashing cultures - we should take heed, both at home and abroad. No matter how you justify giving their pie away, they have no pie, and one day they'll burn everyone's pie to the ground, and we can all live in their stone age with them with no pie for anybody.

It's amazing how easily these clowns can manipulate the whole world - they have us at their beck and call. Has nobody in any position of power considered that maybe if ISIS wants the strongest response they can get from everybody, that response is not going to hurt them, but strengthen them? You can't just bomb them a bit more than they want and win, they want everything we can throw at them.

You can't defeat people who fight like that by just turning up the intensity of your own fight - they have a strategy and ideology what can reflect and multiply anything back at us, just fighting them more is the stupidest thing you can do.

People who talk about our military might and all that have no concept of what enabled us to win our last successful war (wwII). We happened to have the ingenuity and industry to do it, but that's not the key ingredient. There's a lot more to winning than just hitting harder.

 

Nope.

Israel won't nuke anybody, unless they have lost everything. That would be enough that they'd finally lose US support, and without us to prop them up, it doesn't matter how much industry or how many bombs they have, they're sitting on a worthless patch of desert beset by enemies - enemies who they constantly and pathologically incite and wrong and purposefully keep as antagonized and resentful as possible for bibi's political gain. They love war and conflict, but if it went to far it could come crashing down on them.

They'd better watch their step, ISIS is coming through jordan, and israel has, by their own ongoing doing, precious few friends who could support them in any kind of war that wouldn't leave their "homeland" a glowing parkinglot.

Israel is the little shit who taunts the big dog just beyond his reach. The rope is fraying, and if they don't watch their shit they're going to get mauled with no warning.

The hospitals they bomb constitute no threat to them, but said bombing creates many other threats to them.

 

Such as?

 

I think America is going to drop a nuclear bomb on them

 

Not getting in a fight with a pinata full of razor blades.

Yeah, you can beat the living fuck out of it - that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

If we don't address the things that cause extremism, there is no number of bombs or bullets that can stop it - every one you kill only legitimizes them and swells their ranks greatly. They have set up a dichotomy with the great satan against islam - what do you think the result will be when the great satan comes and kills these guys who have predicted that the great satan will fight them in a long war for the glory of islam? What do you think all the uneducated people with nothing to live for will cling to, the only thing they have, or some higher ideal of doing nothing and starving or being beheaded or dying of dysentery without lifting a finger against the guys bombing their country? Yeah.


It's a complicated tribal mess, but when an outsider starts bombing them, even if you're bombing someone's sworn enemy, their reaction is that you can go fuck yourself and not pass go and not collect $200 - and inevitably, it's not just the bad guys that get bombed, anyway.


How about we worry about the guys who taught ISIS to behead, and who have spent tremendous amounts of our own money to create networks that move around jihadis and money (networks that directly carried out the worst mass murder in american history, no less). The smart thing to do would be to get the FUCK out of the middle east: cut all special ties with saudi arabia, dramatically cut aid to israel and get serious about them cleaning up their act or losing everything (in fact, threaten serious sanctions, and if they fuck around, smack bibi like the bitch he is), etc. There's two things that could happen: the saudis could raise the price of oil through the roof - we should love that shit, it'll be the best thing that ever happened to our energy companies - or they could slash it to nothing, in which case the right course of action would be to buy it for nothing, and make entirely sustainable energy independence a national priority, and put some serious money into it so that when the price goes back up we have no oil industry, but no need of that shit anyway.

(of course, we should be doing that anyway, the saudis are now sabotaging our oil industry, and while I say good riddance, we need to put money (government money, or wherever it needs to come from - sorry, haliburton and citigroup scumbags) into simply not needing an oil industry, which is the only way to not be their ally but still at economic war with them.)


*edit* also, aside from the way we're doing it wrong and in a way that will ultimately hurt us, there are many prerequisites for winning ANY conflict, which we are farther than ever from meeting in the middle east - it's simply not possible for us to win, or for them to lose - but that's for another post, if you'd like.

 

Oh for crying out loud it's Moderate though I've heard it called liberal more often than not. Education reform, women's rights, tackling our nation's obesity problem, partnering with the Gates Foundation, the editor-in-chief came from the New York Times...Yep, classic neo-con alright. Good grief.

 

If you have not noticed, they call obama a fringe leftist, a marxist, and other such stupidity.

When the center's been dragged out from under you, being to the left of it doesn't mean a fuckin' thing.

 

Erggh, organ harvesting now as well

 

Roor, what do you mean with 'ISIS is coming through Jordan'?

 

Jordan is in serious trouble.

They have dictators who (while they are some of the more legitimate in the middle east, aren't they the last hashemites? Legitimate by blood, at any rate) do not represent the people - in fact, a lot of their people would have ISIS leanings, but are just a bit too well off to be quick to leave the reservation - but they're not THAT well off. Their country is stable, but sucks for the vast majority. So then their government does america's bidding (seriously, their pilot gets killed in america's bombing campaign, so the king has to come home from washington to make some appearances) as their impoverished citizens sort of don't like america and sort of like the idea of some glory and self-determination and that sort of thing - and the kings response is getting dragged down to their level: executing prisoners summarily (I don't care if they were condemned before, if you execute them in response to anything done by anyone but them, it's a summary execution or assassination for political ends), and ramping up their involvement, and blustering to no end about the shit jordan will do.

ISIS doesn't kill people brutally so that you'll sit by and watch - they fucking burned the guy and then started negotiating for his freedom, they were trying to push ALL jordan's buttons, and it worked. You can't kill ISIS, there will always be more, and not in some sort of vague future sense: there will be more the instant you kill any of them. They're not afraid of being bombed, it's the best thing that could happen to them.

They want jordan to get bogged down, and put the government in the position of sending the children of the sunni population who sympathizes with ISIS to die at the hands of ISIS, when the people are thinking there's no reason for it, because those are the guys they like more anyway. The goal is to cause civil unrest, and then just walk in. ISIS needs chaos and dissent in order to take an area. Jordan is full of people who could go either way, it's very unwise for the government to do things that alienate the people farther.

Of course, jordan's government is hoping to push it the other way, and use nationalism - but stirring up nationalism with scary outsiders only works if you have a cohesive population who like their government and think it can protect them, like in israel - jordan does not have a firm grip on their people or territory.

Also, ISIS is a chain reaction, as soon as they have a foothold they're not losing it, it's scarier to fight ISIS than to join them, and the faster they come the quicker people are to submit and do anything they want.


So yeah, the people like ISIS, the government doesn't do shit for them and gets them killed attacking the guys they like and is seen as a weak western puppet state. The shah ate shit, and he had a lot more fancy fighter jets than jordan.





Does anyone really believe that ISIS would like anything more than full blown war with jordan, turkey, syria, the US, iran, and anyone else stupid enough to throw their hat in? They are not trying to fly under the radar, they're desperate for all the attention they can get. They're calculating the most antagonistic things they can do. They release videos that look like video game trailers, and it's not for their local population (they get to see it in person), it's for us to see, and be enraged as we see hardcore anti-america chanting and "cool" war scenes and them "righteously" killing people we sympathize with. It's not like they think we're afraid to go there, we've been at war all over the world for half a century, and continuously in their area for what, two, three, more, decades? These are not people with no concept of us, these are people who have come of age under american occupation.

Yeah, they're really fuckin' bad guys, and it's really frustrating and infuriating to see them acting with apparent impunity - what we need to remember is that the only reason they exist is that we fucked around over there - why are we itching to cause much greater harm for the sake of the satisfaction of killing a few bad guys? It will make things objectively worse, so the fact that they're infuriating shouldn't even be on the table - what are we, some backwards wannabe theocratic caliphate with an honor obsession? That's supposed to be THEM, we should be better than that.

 

A quite simply BARBARIC act, which makes the perpetrators - BARBARIANS!

We used to hang japanese officers who did this in the Pacific.

 

They've also been highly critical of both Bush's, the Heritage Foundation, and the state of conservatism.

As I said, it's a moderate magazine. They'll criticize both sides and most of their reporting is unemotional and factual.

Condemning a magazine as "neo-con" simply because every article doesn't provide personal validation of one's feelings doesn't lend to learning much of anything. There wouldn't be much left to read.

 

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.