Why Atheism Is A Religion

Sorry....I just hit "new posts" and forget to check where I am.

 

I think this is basically all a semantics issue. It only matters to those who derived some meaning from this specific label or the distinction they make in it to either fit in it or distance themselves from it.


So CERTAIN atheists abuse parts of science and treat it as a doctrine. In that way their atheism seems like how some religious folks (ab)use their religion. In my world though science is very broad and quite frankly used by everyone. Science is not a doctrine on itself, if it would be so it would be many doctrines If it isn't clear by now: I don't really see the point in portraying or perceiving things in this way at all.
It's like arguing how Buddhism for example isn't a religion. Hey man fine if that works for certain buddhists. Others buddhists though make clear, through how they practice their beliefs, that their form of buddhism answers to the general definition of what religion is. Atheism... does not. I can see atheists can be evangelistical just as much as the most typical christian but that also doesn't make their belief system a religion on itself. Even when they are religiously fanatic about it :-D (or even organized)


I agree with Irmi: on the individual level it is merely a matter of believing in something or not. It isn't primarily about wether one is religious or not (as in can your beliefs be defined as part of a religion). On a group level it seem to matter much more, as people derive meaning from that. Do you know how many people are part of a religion because of traditional and cultural values? A lot. Does it mean they believe religiously? No. But when asked time and time again by preachy atheists some of them may sound like they do

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm. Where did you get the information that those reporting not being religiously affiliated had "born again" experiences? Here is the study in its published form. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068149/ I see nothing at all in the report to indicate that. Note also that the investigators' own interpretation of their findings is that it is the potential stress of minority religious status that appears to be responsible for the results--a bit different from saying that their religious beliefs are directly responsible.The"minorities" referred to are "born again believers", Catholics, and the religiously non-affiliated--as opposed to non-born again Protestants. The latter group shows no abnormal hippocampal atrophy. Quite a bit different from the conclusion insinuated by your report in the pop science journal. Lastly, note the caution concerning the generalizability of the findings. The researchers concede that the sample of study participants was “geographically and religiously constrained,” consisting largely of “Southeastern Protestant Christians.” They admit that perhaps in a region of the country that is more religiously diverse, or where religion plays less of a role in public life, the stressors on those with minority beliefs might be less pronounced. So instead of "Religious Experiences Shrink Part of the Brain", maybe the real headline should be "Pop science journal spins title of article to slam religion."

 

I'm not getting this. Because if atheism is a religion, and what makes a religion a "religion" is that people feel compelled to try and persuade others to a point of view that can't be proven, is that what you think needs to be preserved? And how are atheists not preserving religion by trying to make the whole world atheist?

I think belief in God should be preserved, but by your definition, a believer in God need not be religious. Someone could theoretically believe in God and never speak to another living soul about it. Is such a person religious? Maybe not.

I also think we need to make the distinction between arguing a point of view and proselytizing. We argue about God all the time on these forums, and just because we all firmly believe what we believe and share our reasons without backing down doesn't mean that any of us are proselytizing. Arguments make us think, and I'm not sure a good argument can help but be persuasive. But just because an argument is persuasive doesn't mean it was created with the intention of changing anyone's mind.

I also think there are certain theists and atheists who simply can't be persuaded to the other point of view. I think you, Chinacat, are much too concerned with the prospect of theism disappearing. Even if all theists are silent, theism will remain, in effect, and effect is so much more powerful than mere words. Theism is more than a philosophy. It is made real, because the concept of something greater is an immediate aspect of our consciousness. It's huge, yes, so huge it naturally causes some minds to doubt its reality. But the concept itself is undeniably real, and is so powerful that, even if there isn't a God, there might as well be one.

 

I don't think it's useful to think of atheism as a religion, other than to piss atheists off. "A shared common belief among followers" is not a useful definition of religion, since it could as easily describe a political opinion or ideology. Most scholars who study religion think that religion must involve a system of beliefs and practices related to the sacred and/or the supernatural. (Geertz; Bellah). In addition, there must be some combination of the following: ritual,doctrine, narrative, experiences, institutions, and/or ethics. (Smart; Prothero). A rudimentary statement of non-belief hardly seems to meet these criteria. Now I agree with you that I've encountered plenty of doctrinaire atheists on the net who approximate the zeal of religious fanatics. Some (but not all) adhere to a doctrine of scientism--the exaltation of science and reason as a functional equivalent of quasi-religious faith. But atheists aren't necessarily like this.

There are a lot of Christians who find the streetcorner and door-to-door Bible thumpers as annoying as atheists and agnostics do. But the proselytizers can sometimes be entertaining. My favorite was the one who said the King James version was the true version of the Bible, because it's the one Jesus used.

 

It's just more of an observation than preaching, though my tone and delivery tends to give that vibe, another distinct trait of Mercury (language) in Sagittarius (rules Religion, known for sounding preacher-esque in its proclamations). But it honestly is just a commentary on the matter. To show Atheism a mirror of itself.

Maybe if there weren't so many Atheists who really want to destroy Religion, then I wouldn't attack certain characteristics of it.

There is an overall sense of "we're winning" from Atheists in relation to Religion these days. This alone shows what I'm talking about. American Atheists' Facebook page is hardly even about Atheism. It's much more about anti-Religion and Christianity specifically, not to mention the bill-board that i posted.

 

You're just twisting the language around. Just state it bluntly, do you believe there is or isn't a God? If it's the latter, then you BELIEVE that there is no God based on no evidence of one.

A lack of a belief in a God or Gods is equivalent to believing that there is no God, based purely on that there's no evidence in this 3D realm of one.

 

Pretty poor example. An abstinent person still thinks that there is such thing as sex, correct?

 

Lack of belief in a God is equivalent to believing there is no God. It's a final statement and assertion on the matter due to lack of evidence, as opposed to an Agnostic who isn't making a declaration on the matter merely because there's no evidence in the third dimension.

 

obviously this hinges on which meaning of the word "position" one is referring to. it does have another meaning besides taking a position on something. (as in actual physical positioning)

 

Atheism isn't a belief, it is a conclusion.

I read this somewhere earlier and thought it was fitting for this thread

 

I spend time with my FOX news watching, 83 year old christain grandparents. I get irritated with their christain addiction. Yes, religion is an addiction for people. Any thought pattern or patterns can be a habit. My Grandparents are not unlike many other people in America. Sure, this may be what America was founded on. But I don't see the end times coming. I don't believe there is a God that has anything to do with life. I think psycadelics are more of an interactive at giving religion. I think have gotten way out of hand with what people assume to be reality. I think there are so many endless possiblities for thought forms and I hate to be limited in my ability to form relationships with existance (whatever may exist). I can't live in a black and white world. It is a black and white world because religious people created rules. Rules not based on scientific experience, but rules based on peoples faith. I find little courages about peoples religions. Sure at one time forming new religions was very dangerous. I have a different view on holy people that were crusaders in changing peoples thoughts. I have been influenced by religion in ways that have made me a little conservative. But I find that religious conservation has become radicalized. People really get sweaped up into the fury of mass delusion and panic, that the world is out to attack christains. Christains are the most powerful people in the world, because they sit in extremely powerful military positions.

I do think religion has to change. I have seen a lot of the way's people think and there's an extremem amount of unthought space. Spaces that haven't been filled in. I guess if I had an experience with God I might feel or think different. But we seem to be on our own, unless your delusional. I really think religion is a delusion for most people. They hear ansers or seen signs from a higher power because our brains are pattern seakers. We have a lot that goes on in our minds. I tend to find more power using psycadelics. I have had a lot of hope that spirit worlds already exist. I have seen places with beings. I just never saw anything like any God of any religion. I think Jesus would face palm himself regarding how stupid modern christainity has become. Christains are the most hateful bunch I have ever encountered, and extremely racist! I am not talking about hippies that read the bible and pray. Don't get me wrong, I am all about self hypnosis and changing how we experience reality. I think there is plenty of science reflecting the power of the mind over the shit storm we call life.

I just hate the fact we are limited by other stupid people. Ever get arrested? Well, that asshole cop, prosecuter and Judge all likely belive in God and think your a hell dwelling demon. They really believe in good and evil and not truth. Truth is more stupid and easily forgotten. It takes a smart mind to remember the series of events and not rely on some religious dogma delusion to pretend they are in control.

 

yes. the abstinent person sees other people having sex. does that put his dick in another person's hole?

 

Why?

 

Lol, the belief in God isn't going anywhere any time soon. I just can't, for one, see that it's true. Things seem far weirder than a clean and simple religious dogma!