How The Left Betrays And Patronizes The Poor

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Eleven, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

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    I am in agreement here. I liked "Coverup" the movie about the Iran Contra affair, by Barb Trent and the Empowerment project. That movie did a lot of talking about The Shadow Government. Tody I would say they were spot on, as we have little to say about our future or the direction of the country.
     
  2. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Eleven

    How The Left Betrays And Patronizes The Poor

    Not sure the rantings of one actress is somehow an indication of the thoughts of ‘the left’?

    Thing is that there are lots of lefts just as there are lots of rights and there are some ideologies from both ends that think in revolutionary ways and look for advantage in suffering, for the right for example check out Naomi Klein’s The Shock Doctrine

    [SIZE=11pt]Anyway to me the problem with the let it all go to shit idea is that the majority of us would end up having to live in shit. And we might be a long time in that shit.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]The thing is that it might not be a matter of going to shit all at once so that people notice it and can see who is to blame.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]I mean a lot of the shit we have to live with now goes back to stuff that happened thirty odd years ago and even recent history can be manipulated - there are many in the UK who blame the last Labour government for the financial crash not the banks and flawed neoliberal policies - so they end up voting for a Conservative Party that is on the side of the bankers and follows a same crooked neoliberal path that caused the crash. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Some people are only just waking up to the fact that their children might have to grow up in a world with less social mobility, lesser wages, fewer social provisions and crumbling infrastructure – in other words be worse off than themselves. But many seem resigned to it rather than angry and often if they are angry they blame the immigrants, the EU, the scroungers on the dole and all the other scapegoats the right wing media feeds them.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]It would be great if we could have a glorious revolution and put all wrongs to right but many times revolutions can be unpredictable and dangerous things, the idealism of the French revolution turned to terror and ended with Napoleon, the workers utopia promised by the Soviet revolution brought about starvation and Stalinism.[/SIZE]
     
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  3. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    I’d say it was very likely they would have voted to go into Iraq, Afghanistan and yes Vietnam. Those were all popular wars until they went bad.

    In polls on the eve of the Iraqi invasion said that over 70% of Americans favoured the war there were similar if not higher figures for those wanting a ground war in Afghanistan.

    As to Vietnam it was seen in the context of the cold war the fight against communism which was incredibly popular in the US.

    Oh yeah when things went to shit opposition grew or rather people‘s enthusiasm faded-I saw it happen here in the case of Afghanistan and Iraq, the very loud and persistent supporters of the wars just disappeared when the proverbial hit the fan, they stopped posting or began to oppose what was happening.
     
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  4. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Thing is that ‘government’ isn’t the problem - it is the people, Americans have voted into governance that is the problem – Garbage in Garbage out.

    The neo-liberal/free market ideas that so many Trump Republicans now rile against, the outsourcing, the inequality, the wage stagnations, the hollowing out of manufacturing, the decline in infrastructure and public services - WHERE NOT HIDDEN – and people consistently voted for people that held those neo-liberal free market views.

    In that context it is not surprising that many in the Democrat Party including the Clinton Admin were seduced by neoliberalism seeing that Americans gave it so much support.

    It seems strange to me that many that voted in free market politicians seem surprised when they brought in neoliberal policies.

    You might say they didn’t know what they were doing – BUT there were/are plenty of people out there explaining the detrimental effects of neoliberal policies they were just ignored or attacked.

    I mean for years people have been asking why so many Americans seemed to be voting against their own and their country’s best interests.

    Even here I and many others have been called communists and idiots for criticising free market ideology but in the fifteen years I’ve been here not one neoliberal or right wing libertarian has been able to defend neoliberalism from criticism.

    Americans were not hijacked by the US government, Americans voted in those with neoliberal views who then hijacked the US government.

    Even the Trump Republicans seem confused, many still seem to want to have the ‘free market’ they just don’t want its effects (impossible) and others seem to think that Trump the deal maker will somehow be better at playing the ‘free market’ than the politicians have been (he won’t).

    Oh and to those that will try it - don’t give us crap along the lines that it doesn’t matter if you vote or who you vote for etc etc, the US is an imperfect democracy but it is a democracy.
     
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  5. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Thanks for reminding me. I admit I forgot about the waves of newfound patriotism we saw in the US after 9/11. It eclipsed the fervor over Desert Shield/Storm way back when. Americans were outraged when we didn't get Saddam the first time, after his incursion into Kuwait. But our government knew it would be a huge mistake since they had provided Hussein with chemical and supposedly biological weapons/technology when they still thought he'd take Iraq. After 9/11 there was a bigger surge and military recruiters were getting fat bonuses while making insane promises.

    When kids realized they were walking not only into death, but thanks to modern medicine we now have veterans surviving with half a brain or missing limbs or both. Then we heard about the pitiful way our troops on the ground were being supplied. Sure, we had cutting edge smart bombs and super accurate missiles, but those don't benefit ground troops trying to advance. Instead the US supplied them with vehicles that were easily penetrated and made them recycle panels and compromised bullet-proof glass. And Rummy had the nerve to say "you go with the army you have" after years of troop-level cuts to line the pockets of technology firms.

    Thanks to GW reservists finally got a taste of what they signed up for. Instead of being held back in cushy posts in the US, they were sent directly to the front of it all. This surprised the whole country since we had grown accustomed to reservists being little more than weekend warriors. We had them on my ship and they were nearly useless when they arrived though they always seemed to have more rank. The recruitment boom slowed to a trickle so the US engaged in a backdoor draft of a sort. Since they couldn't get more foot soldiers, they simply reassigned people in other branches. Which is why you had so many sailors carrying a rifle in the desert. Nowhere near a ship or any water to navigate.

    I also agree that assuming "the left" is an autonomous mono-bloc of thought is no better than thinking all people of a given race think the same way. Regardless of the group you will always have some level of cultural diversity. One thing I was very happy to see this time around was the demarcation between establishment and non-establishment thinking on both sides of the aisle. Just look how they have gone after Bernie and Trump. I'm still for either one simply because they have upended the cushy political career cart a little. The problem I have as a centrist is being hated by both sides. I've already said that I think Trump will drive us to war. I think Bernie might have as well, though not by desire. I no longer think Bernie has the talent to keep us out of a conflict. And I don't think Trump will back down from anything.

    I think Americans are screwed once again in November no matter which way it goes. So all I have left is the joy of watching establishment a-holes lose their jobs en masse. If I'm so lucky.
     
  6. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    I say do it. BRING US THE SINGULARITY!!
     
  7. Eleven

    Eleven Member

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    If you knew how hard conservative Christians have been working to disempower women, roll back reproductive freedom . . and how hard those Christians have worked to gain taxpayer support of religious indoctrination centers (K-12 education), could you abstain from voting for Hillary in November? I study up on the religious right, and would never bare my throat to them.
     
  8. Eleven

    Eleven Member

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    In about 1980, I knew an Iranian studying here in the USA. I remember him shaking his head and saying, "Khomeni is worse than the Shah." Poor guy had worked hard opposing the Shah, and all he got was worse.

    Now, Lenin, he always wore a suit, so he knew he would always do all right, leading the poor ignorant Russian workers and farmers. That he secretly felt better than.
     
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