Donald Trump

Discussion in 'Politics' started by newo, Aug 21, 2015.

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  1. TheGhost

    TheGhost Auuhhhhmm ...

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    He should go to Mexico for a few years. [​IMG]
     
  2. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    You know what people would have said if he was talking nonstop about the UK while he's there; sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong, meddling in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation.

    The Democrats need to get back to talking about issues that are important to the American people.
     
  3. ~Zen~

    ~Zen~ California Tripper Administrator

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    Their full focus seems to be on trashing Trump to win the election. It's as if they borrowed a page from Trump's strategy book.

    I think they should rise to the occasion and bring the focus back to reality, discuss the REAL issues, not the invented ones for the election cycle, and above all listen.

    But they never listen to you and me, they never will...unless you pay them to listen.

    I really can't tell which one is more corrupt or swayed by the sight of a dollar, and thus understand how many will not vote, or make the wrong choice.
     
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  4. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I don't mind, they're fighting fire with fire. If you remember Gore and Kerry took the high road and look what happened to them.

    I thought Warren's latest speech addressed all kinds of issues:
    Values, veterans, unions, pensions, the middle class, small businesses, social security, teachers, public schools, factory workers, oil company subsidies, corporate tax breaks, infrastructure, jobs, wall street bailouts, education, refinancing student loans, wall street regulation, minimum wage raise, paid sick leave.

    She also stood up to Trump:
    "He will crush you into the dirt to get what he wants."​

    "You beat a bully not by tucking tail and running but by standing your ground and fighting back."
    http://youtu.be/3ha4wLb5Qck​
     
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  5. Ja90

    Ja90 Member

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    Trump's speech on economic policy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3Cpf_Wkco

    Declaring America's Economic Independence

    It is great to be here. I'd like to thank Alumisource and all the amazing workers here for hosting us.

    Today, I am going to talk about how to Make America Wealthy Again.

    We are thirty miles from Steel City. Pittsburgh played a central role in building our nation.

    The legacy of Pennsylvania steelworkers lives in the bridges, railways and skyscrapers that make up our great American landscape.

    But our workers' loyalty was repaid with betrayal.

    Our politicians have aggressively pursued a policy of globalization - moving our jobs, our wealth and our factories to Mexico and overseas.

    Globalization has made the financial elite who donate to politicians very wealthy. But it has left millions of our workers with nothing but poverty and heartache.

    When subsidized foreign steel is dumped into our markets, threatening our factories, the politicians do nothing.

    For years, they watched on the sidelines as our jobs vanished and our communities were plunged into depression-level unemployment.

    Many of these areas have still never recovered.

    Our politicians took away from the people their means of making a living and supporting their families.

    Skilled craftsmen and tradespeople and factory workers have seen the jobs they loved shipped thousands of miles away.

    Many Pennsylvania towns once thriving and humming are now in a state despair.

    This wave of globalization has wiped out our middle class.

    It doesn't have to be this way. We can turn it all around - and we can turn it around fast.

    But if we're going to deliver real change, we're going to have to reject the campaign of fear and intimidation being pushed by powerful corporations, media elites, and political dynasties.

    The people who rigged the system for their benefit will do anything - and say anything - to keep things exactly as they are.

    The people who rigged the system are supporting Hillary Clinton because they know as long as she is in charge nothing will ever change.

    The inner cities will remain poor.

    The factories will remain closed.

    The borders will remain open.

    The special interests will remain firmly in control.

    Hillary Clinton and her friends in global finance want to scare America into thinking small - and they want to scare the American people out of voting for a better future.

    My campaign has the opposite message.

    I want you to imagine how much better your life can be if we start believing in America again.

    I want you to imagine how much better our future can be if we declare independence from the elites who've led us to one financial and foreign policy disaster after another.

    Our friends in Britain recently voted to take back control of their economy, politics and borders.

    I was on the right side of that issue - with the people - while Hillary, as always, stood with the elites, and both she and president Obama predicted that one wrong.

    Now it's time for the American people to take back their future.

    That's the choice we face. We can either give in to Hillary Clinton's campaign of fear, or we can choose to Believe In America.

    We lost our way when we stopped believing in our country.

    America became the world's dominant economy by becoming the world's dominant producer.

    The wealth this created was shared broadly, creating the biggest middle class the world had ever known.

    But then America changed its policy from promoting development in America, to promoting development in other nations.

    We allowed foreign countries to subsidize their goods, devalue their currencies, violate their agreements, and cheat in every way imaginable.

    Trillions of our dollars and millions of our jobs flowed overseas as a result.

    I have visited cities and towns across this country where a third or even half of manufacturing jobs have been wiped out in the last 20 years.

    Today, we import nearly $800 billion more in goods than we export.

    This is not some natural disaster. It is politician-made disaster.

    It is the consequence of a leadership class that worships globalism over Americanism.

    This is a direct affront to our Founding Fathers, who wanted America to be strong, independent and free.

    Our Founding Fathers Understood Trade

    George Washington said that "the promotion of domestic manufactur[ing] will be among the first consequences to flow from an energetic government.”

    Alexander Hamilton spoke frequently of the "expediency of encouraging manufactur[ing] in the United States." The first Republican President, Abraham Lincoln, warned that: "The abandonment of the protective policy by the American government… must produce want and ruin among our people."

    Our original Constitution did not even have an income tax. Instead, it had tariffs - emphasizing taxation of foreign, not domestic, production.

    Yet today, 240 years after the Revolution, we have turned things completely upside-down.

    We tax and regulate and restrict our companies to death, then we allow foreign countries that cheat to export their goods to us tax-free.

    As a result, we have become more dependent on foreign countries than ever before.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, it’s time to declare our economic independence once again.

    That means reversing two of the worst legacies of the Clinton years.

    America has lost nearly one-third of its manufacturing jobs since 1997 - even as the country has increased its population by 50 million people.

    At the center of this catastrophe are two trade deals pushed by Bill and Hillary Clinton.

    First, the North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA. Second, China's entry into the World Trade Organization.

    NAFTA was the worst trade deal in history, and China's entrance into the World Trade Organization has enabled the greatest jobs theft in history.

    It was Bill Clinton who signed NAFTA in 1993, and Hillary Clinton who supported it.

    It was also Bill Clinton who lobbied for China's disastrous entry into the World Trade Organization, and Hillary Clinton who backed that terrible agreement.

    Then, as Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton stood by idly while China cheated on its currency, added another trillion dollars to our trade deficits, and stole hundreds of billions of dollars in our intellectual property.

    The city of Pittsburgh, and the State of Pennsylvania, have lost one-third of their manufacturing jobs since the Clintons put China into the WTO.

    Fifty thousand factories across America have shut their doors in that time.

    Almost half of our entire manufacturing trade deficit in goods with the world is the result of trade with China.

    It was also Hillary Clinton, as Secretary of State, who shoved us into a job-killing deal with South Korea in 2012.

    As reported by the Economic Policy Institute in May, this deal doubled our trade deficit with South Korea and destroyed nearly 100,000 American jobs.

    As Bernie Sanders said, Hillary Clinton "Voted for virtually every trade agreement that has cost the workers of this country millions of jobs.”

    Trade reform, and the negotiation of great trade deals, is the quickest way to bring our jobs back.

    To understand why trade reform creates jobs, we need to understand how all nations grow and prosper.

    Massive trade deficits subtract directly from our Gross Domestic Product.

    From 1947 to 2001 - a span of over five decades - our inflation-adjusted gross domestic product grew at a rate of 3.5%.

    However, since 2002 - the year after we fully opened our markets to Chinese imports - that GDP growth rate has been cut almost in half.

    What does this mean for Americans? For every one percent of GDP growth we fail to generate in any given year, we also fail to create over one million jobs.

    America's "job creation deficit" due to slower growth since 2002 is well over 20 million jobs - and that's just about the number of jobs our country needs right now to put America back to work at decent wages.

    The Transpacific-Partnership is the greatest danger yet.

    The TPP would be the death blow for American manufacturing.

    It would give up all of our economic leverage to an international commission that would put the interests of foreign countries above our own.

    It would further open our markets to aggressive currency cheaters. It would make it easier for our trading competitors to ship cheap subsidized goods into U.S. markets - while allowing foreign countries to continue putting barriers in front of our exports.

    The TPP would lower tariffs on foreign cars, while leaving in place the foreign practices that keep American cars from being sold overseas. The TPP even created a backdoor for China to supply car parts for automobiles made in Mexico.

    The agreement would also force American workers to compete directly against workers from Vietnam, one of the lowest wage countries on Earth.

    Not only will the TPP undermine our economy, but it will undermine our independence.

    The TPP creates a new international commission that makes decisions the American people can't veto.

    These commissions are great Hillary Clinton’s Wall Street funders who can spend vast amounts of money to influence the outcomes.

    It should be no surprise then that Hillary Clinton, according to Bloomberg, took a “leading part in drafting the Trans-Pacific Partnership”.

    She praised or pushed the TPP on 45 separate occasions, and even called it the “gold standard”.

    Hillary Clinton was totally for the TPP just a short while ago, but when she saw my stance, which is totally against, she was shamed into saying she would be against it too – but have no doubt, she will immediately approve it if it is put before her, guaranteed.

    She will do this just as she has betrayed American workers for Wall Street throughout her career.

    Here’s how it would go: she would make a small token change, declare the pact fixed, and ram it through.

    That’s why Hillary is now only saying she has problems with the TPP “in its current form,” – ensuring that she can rush to embrace it again at her earliest opportunity.

    If the media doesn’t believe me, I have a challenge for you. Ask Hillary Clinton if she is willing to withdraw from the TPP her first day in office and unconditionally rule out its passage in any form.

    There is no way to “fix” the TPP. We need bilateral trade deals. We do not need to enter into another massive international agreement that ties us up and binds us down.

    A Trump Administration will change our failed trade policy - quickly

    Here are 7 steps I would pursue right away to bring back our jobs.

    One: I am going to withdraw the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which has not yet been ratified.

    Two: I'm going to appoint the toughest and smartest trade negotiators to fight on behalf of American workers.

    Three: I'm going to direct the Secretary of Commerce to identify every violation of trade agreements a foreign country is currently using to harm our workers. I will then direct all appropriate agencies to use every tool under American and international law to end these abuses.

    Four: I'm going tell our NAFTA partners that I intend to immediately renegotiate the terms of that agreement to get a better deal for our workers. And I don't mean just a little bit better, I mean a lot better. If they do not agree to a renegotiation, then I will submit notice under Article 2205 of the NAFTA agreement that America intends to withdraw from the deal.

    Five: I am going to instruct my Treasury Secretary to label China a currency manipulator. Any country that devalues their currency in order to take advantage of the United States will be met with sharply

    Six: I am going to instruct the U.S. Trade Representative to bring trade cases against China, both in this country and at the WTO. China's unfair subsidy behavior is prohibited by the terms of its entrance to the WTO, and I intend to enforce those rules.

    Seven: If China does not stop its illegal activities, including its theft of American trade secrets, I will use every lawful presidential power to remedy trade disputes, including the application of tariffs consistent with Section 201 and 301 of the Trade Act of 1974 and Section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act of 1962.

    President Reagan deployed similar trade measures when motorcycle and semiconductor imports threatened U.S. industry. His tariff on Japanese motorcycles was 45% and his tariff to shield America’s semiconductor industry was 100%.

    Hillary Clinton, and her campaign of fear, will try to spread the lie that these actions will start a trade war. She has it completely backwards.

    Hillary Clinton unleashed a trade war against the American worker when she supported one terrible trade deal after another – from NAFTA to China to South Korea.

    A Trump Administration will end that war by getting a fair deal for the American people.

    The era of economic surrender will finally be over.

    A new era of prosperity will finally begin.

    America will be independent once more.

    Under a Trump Presidency, the American worker will finally have a President who will protect them and fight for them.

    We will stand up to trade cheating anywhere and everywhere it threatens an American job.

    We will make America the best place in the world to start a business, hire workers, and open a factory.

    This includes massive tax reform to lift the crushing burdens on American workers and businesses.

    We will also get rid of wasteful rules and regulations which are destroying our job creation capacity.

    Many people think that these regulations are an even greater impediment than the fact that we are one of the highest taxed nations in the world.

    We are also going to fully capture America’s tremendous energy capacity. This will create vast profits for our workers and begin reducing our deficit. Hillary Clinton wants to shut down energy production and shut down the mines.

    A Trump Administration will also ensure that we start using American steel for American infrastructure.

    Just like the American steel from Pennsylvania that built the Empire State building.

    It will be American steel that will fortify American's crumbling bridges.

    It will be American steel that sends our skyscrapers soaring into the sky.

    It will be American steel that rebuilds our inner cities.

    It will be American hands that remake this country, and it will be American energy - mined from American resources - that powers this country.

    It will be American workers who are hired to do the job.

    We are going to put American-produced steel back into the backbone of our country. This alone will create massive numbers of jobs.

    On trade, on immigration, on foreign policy, we are going to put America First again.

    We are going to make America wealthy again.

    We are going to reject Hillary Clinton's politics of fear, futility, and incompetence.

    We are going to embrace the possibilities of change.

    It is time to believe in the future.

    It is time to believe in each other.

    It is time to Believe In America.

    This Is How We Are Going To Make America Great Again – For All Americans.

    We Are Going To Make America Great Again For Everyone – Greater Than Ever Before.


    Thank you.
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    It appears he was reading from a teleprompter.
     
  7. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    I honestly like some of the stuff he says about free trade, i just dont believe him
     
  8. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    He doesn't approve of people doing that, except when he does it.
     
  9. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    If you understand international economics, world trade, and American economic history over the past 4 1/2 decades, including in an international context----his speech is pretty scary.

    Does he present a new argument or a unique solution? No---not at all. This is the same isolationist bullcrap that has been touted for many, many, years. It is no different than the crap that fueled Brexit (a grave mistake despite the serious failings and systemic problems of the EU and its lofty political agendas that should have never been attempted). His economic argument is perfect for firing up and angering working class Americans----just as it was in the 1980's and other times before that.

    Reagan did not make America great again-----what made America great again---and producing incredible growth in the 1990's and actually even well into the 2000's was American business leaders coming to terms with foreign competition-----this was after academics and many others had been warning them of the threat of Japan (in particular) and the serious situation of aging factories, and american arrogance since the early 70's. It took until the late 80's for American business leaders to get the message, and only then did they embrace the technology that increased efficiency and profits considerably and gave us a renewed competitive edge. But this did not include a competitve edge in industries where we no longer could be competitive.

    In 2009 as the economy was struggling to avoid depression in a horrific credit crisis (as all credit crisis are horrific and almost always end in depression), and in the face of a world wide recession, the only corporate segment in America that made a fortune, did very well, and supported the economy, was America's export companies, along with its multinationals. Despite all the fear mongering, and Republican propaganda that circulated, and fed off the very fear that was pulling us into depression (because depression is always a result more of fear than reality) America was the strongest economy in the world at that time (After all----and this is a bad joke that is true-----we exported quite a bit of our financial crap (e.g. bad debt) to just about every country in the world----even those whose banks and local governments had no business taking on such risk (but our fast-talking investment bankers convinced them)).

    ...Oh wait-----did working class America not really participate in the amazing profits and growth through the 1990's and the 2000's?????

    Whatever could have left them out in the cold... Oh, wait----that's right, Reagans trickle down economics. And the driver of that train is greed-----something that Trump enjoys all too well.

    If you think for a moment that making America great again, includes, for example (borrowing from his speech), rebuilding America's steel industry, then you, my friend, have the economic acumen of the loudest man in the bar where the permanently unemployed steel mill workers hang out. (Yes, I know its painful---but even Japan, when I was an analyst for Shearson Lehman in the 80's, had to make the difficult decision of scaling back their steel production and putting factories overseas. If, for example, you worked for a buggy whip company, your only chance for survival heading into contemporary times would be to scale back production and specialize in certain segment of the S&M market...)

    And by the way-----China is not a manipulator of currency----beginning in 2009, the US underwent a massive effort to manipulate the US Dollar. Geithner and his cronies claimed China was manipulating their currency because they tried to keep it pegged to the dollar-----pegging your currency to a major currency has always been a common practice and is a smart thing to do if you can afford it---especially if the currency is the major currency you do your trade in (today almost all global trade is done in the US Dollar which is very great for us). Unfortunately, China could not afford it very well (because of the US manipulation) and it caused considerable domestic inflation for them, but they continued to do it as best they could. They are not the manipulators----the US is.

    Which brings us to another conservative lie-----the weak dollar (and that it represents the weakness of the US economy)----I repeat-----it was US policy to manipulate the dollar down. Foreign investment continued to flow into the US markets very heavily since 2009------because everyone knew America was the strongest major economy.

    Anyway------like I said------this is scary stuff!!!!!
     
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  10. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    The fleecing of the American public has begun.

    At least it is only so far limited to the Americans who were dumb enough to donate money to him!
     
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  11. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    OK

    Tax cuts and deregulation in relation to the labour market and the environment

    Oh and a trade war with China

    He basically seems to be saying neoliberalism failed in one area so the solution is more neoliberalism in another area.

    Oh and a trade war with China.

    I agree with his analysis of neoliberal globalisation but that genie is out of the bottle, his solution is basically the 1930’s economic policy of ‘beggar-thy-neighbour’ (an economic policy through which one country attempts to remedy its economic problems by means that tend to worsen the economic problems of other countries., wiki). It’s something that after WWII many people where keen to stop the US government of the time even had a slogan “If goods can't cross the borders, soldiers will.”

    The thing was that it was meant to be a two way thing but the problem was that the Americans messed things up at Bretton Wood rejecting Keynes ideas in favour of a deal that they thought advantaged the US (it didn’t). and then mainly American neoliberlists hijacked the system (the Washington Consensus) . To me we are now getting Trump making another mistake.
     
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  12. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    here is an old post of mine


    Many on the right attack the idea of social global governance while seemingly saying very little about economic global governance.

    They warn against global ‘governance’ ‘regulation’ or ‘laws’ without seeming to realise that these things are in place it’s just what they favour wealth and serve its interests, while often been detrimental to the majority.

    It seems to me that the political history of the 20th century (in the industrialised nations) has been to one degree or another about the curtailment of the adverse effects of 19th century exploitative capitalism (some call classical liberalism).

    People in many nations fought for voting rights, social benefits, safer working conditions, progressive taxation, and decent living wages. The result of that movement was that the economic benefits of production were much more distributed. Many people saw their wages grow and in the period between the end of WWII and 1970 many in Europe and the US gain middle class status.

    But from the 70’s onward a new idea was promoted in some of these nations (often referred to as neo-liberalism) it was in many ways opposed to the ‘distributive’ system that had developed. One thing it promoted was economic globalisation, which basically allowed back some aspects of exploitative capitalism by promoting the moving of production to nations that had not developed the more distributive systems away from those nations that had.

    In this way the long fought for distributive system has been undermined in those places where it had developed. Neo-liberals argue that to ‘compete’ in the global market the elements of the distributive system need to be dismantled what is needed they say is deregulation, the cutting of welfare, tax cuts that benefit the rich, lower wages, weak government oversight etc etc.

    So what we are getting in is the dismantling of the distributive system in the developed countries while in some developing countries the conditions resemble what was happening in the west before people’s struggle to get rid of exploitation (the fire in Bangladesh that killed over a thousand factory workers comes to mind).

    So what can be done well as James K Galbriath has argued –

    We must confront the global inequality crisis. For this, we must, in the final analysis, raise real wages in the countries with which our workers compete, expand their markets for our goods, and reduce their pressure on our wage structure”

    To me what neoliberal inspired right wingers seem to be aiming for is for a few to be able to exploit the many more easily across the globe.

    I think we need to fight again for social balance but this time it has to be global. To counter the economic globalisation that has already taken place we need social globalisation to be brought in, and that means social global governance to counter the already in place economic global governance.
     
    2 people like this.
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Trump goes to Pittsburgh and rants about bring back the steel mills.
    Pittsburgh is doing just fine without those mills, thank you. I remember the pollution of the old Pittsburgh, the smoke, dust, and darkness.

    Pittsburgh has survived not by limiting trade and bringing back old technologies but by embracing new technologies and ideas.
    A day in Pittsburgh when the mills were king.​
    [​IMG]
    Today.​
    [​IMG]

    And Trump will bring back the mills!​
     
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  14. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

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    That's the thing, technology has brought new opportunities. Get on board, or don't, but don't complain because you are to stupid to learn something that will benefit you.

    Btw, aren't the people that would work in the steel mills too old to work in the steel mills , now?
     
  15. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

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    It seems as though that Hillary will remain above the fray, and Warren will be the attack dog.
    I like Warren a lot, but I don't think it's a good role for her, especially if she is going to be a vp. Granted, someone needs to get down and dirty with trump, but not her.
    I think they should use someone else to attack trump. Obama maybe.

    Note: As someone with Cherokee blood, I wish Elizabeth would set the record straight.
     
  16. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    They are retired, or dead by now... Those mills haven't been running since the 70's for the most part.
     
  17. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    And in response to that, let me just say that I hope Obama gives clemency to America's one political prisoner----Leonard Peltier!
     
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  18. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

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    1 person likes this.
  19. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Warren has stated that this is what she had been told by her parents and grandparents. Also her maternal aunts and uncles told the same stories.
    There is some independent genealogical research that shows her to be 1/32 Cherokee, although it hasn't been proven.

    Who gives a rat's ass, Trump is just trying to get air time like he did when he claimed Obama wasn't an American.
     
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