January 20---Wear A Keffiyeh In Protest Day

So are you implying that if a husband tells his wife to do something that is not against God's word, she then does have an obligation to follow through?

 

Yes, the ones into mind control are the ones that promote the idea of a god that has expectations of us.

 

Let's see, what other religions would simply say, 'I'll pray for you' if you wanted to leave: Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, the Bahai faith, Shinto---they wouldn't even care and say I'll pray for you, but it would be silly (if you are Japanese and born Shinto), Judaism, Muslims here in the US and other Western countries-----let's see, what other religions are there?

On the other hand----I'm not Christian----growing up I was Christian, but I am not now. So I can tell you that the idea that Christians do not shun you, or pester you is flat out BS. I am spiritual, and I cannot support the institution of religion in terms of personal belief. I will support the rights of others to believe in their own beliefs, but I do not believe in religion.

In fact, if it wasn't for indigenous spirituality I would be an atheist. If I told my Native friends that I decided I am not going to go to sweat lodges, or ceremonies anymore, they would just say, "Oh, that's too bad, we'll miss you. Well, we'll always be here if you need us." Because in the Native ways, there is no in or out. We live in a living universe surrounded by the Great Spirit, so there is nothing to 'leave' or 'get out of.' It is all a question of personal choice of whether you want to be in harmony with spirit or out of harmony, and everyone has their own way of finding that harmony.


But Christians not shunning you? My sister believes that I practice the ways of the Devil. When I took my dad into ceremony to heal him from cancer, my sister and her family had an intervention afterwards and tried to talk 'sense' into my mom and dad. They had them partially brainwashed for a month or two, and I was afraid it would undo the healing that had happened. (And what could the church do for them---I'm sorry to speak so frankly, but their church is filled with aged people many of whom are dying of illnesses. People I know because I went to the same church as a kid. Every sunday they pray for this person, or pray for that person, and eventually they go into a hospice, and then after so long, die of their diseases...) Fortunately my mom and dad came to their senses, and his cancer is gone. My sister and I have a strained relationship, and she insists that I must find Jesus.

My Christian son-in-law had a very uncomfortable talk with me when my grandson was younger. Basically he didn't want me to talk to my grandson about my beliefs. My son had talked to my grandson more about my beliefs than I did, because my son has gone to some ceremonies and has experienced things at those ceremonies. But I don't try to sway anyone about their beliefs----unless they try to convert me. But my son-in-law had a veiled threat in his talk---about not letting my grandson come over anymore.

My stepdaughter says it is evil to worship trees or rocks---I don't. She tries to convert me from my evil ways.

But I have experienced outright shunning and attempts to induce fear or guilt among many Christian people because I do not believe as they do.


Now if I were to talk about the experiences of my Native friends----that is a whole new level. Many of my older friends were forced into boarding schools. I listened to an old Native friend of mine, tears streaming down his face, as he related how he hurt his hand in the boarding school and accidentaly said 'ouch' in Lakota. The priests took him down to the cellar and put a broomstick on the hard concrete floor. He had to stand on his thighs with his knees on the floor (behind him) on the broomstick which was between his shins and his knee cap, and they stretched out his hands and made him hold a bible in each hand. He was to stay there for half an hour, but every time the weight of the bibles made his hands fall, he would have to start over. He never held the Bibles for half an hour---after about, what he thinks was, 2 hours he couldn't hold the bibles at all, so it was useless to make him try. He couldn't walk for days after that. Religion was forced down their throats. His brother was forced into a different boarding school---a catholic one. When he was older he was forced to pray and go to mass and so forth, and then on some nights he was sexually abused by the nuns. Especially during the winter, every night the nuns would each take a boy into their bed. Many kids tried to run away from these boarding schools----during the summer, they'd eventually be caught and put back in school. During the winter they mostly died out in the fields.

One of my other friends is my age and was young enough that the horror of the boarding schools had ended. But they were forcing Native kids to be put into Christian foster homes----especially those of Medicine Men. She did not speak English when they put her in the home, so her foster parents put duct tape on her mouth until she spoke only English. As she was learning English she asked why thy didn't put spirit food outside when they eat for the spirits to thank them. She was just a little girl and didn't understand. For the next week she was to stay in her room while the family ate, and then she got bread before she went to sleep and was lectured about the devil and evil spirits and how she has to learn about Jesus, and to not talk about any of those evil ways of her family ever again.

The amazing thing about these friends who have been treated so bad by Christians, is that they hold no animosity towards Christians. They are very polite about it. And they will all say that everyone has their own way to pray to the Great Spirit, and they respect that. If you try to convert them, they will simply say, 'Please don't pray for me.'


If you are old enough, you might remember the Boat People. There was a family in my neighborhood that did the good Christian deed of taking a family in. She was telling my mom about it, and how she discovered that she had found that they had these evil pagan buddha statues or something--I forget what she called them, but they were definitely evil to her. She could not have those evil things in her house, and they were now in a Christian country, so she took it upon herself to destroy them and tossed them in her incinerator and burned them (you younger people may not know this, but we used to have incinerators in our backyards where we would burn our trash). A few weeks later she came back, and told us that the social worker had told her that those little statues that she destroyed were their only connection to their ancestors. They had lost everything else to escape Vietnam. No one knew how old they were, just that they went back very many generations in their family. I remember her telling my mom, "I don't care. They were evil things. Besides, I bought each one of them a nice Bible and a cross to make up for it. They will see it was for the best." I almost cried for them.


Anyway----I could go on with all kinds of stories. I'm sorry. Its not God or Allah or the Great Spirit or whatever you want to call it that is evil, destructive, and hurtful. It's humans----and we want to decide for ourselves what this God wants us to do or be. We write books and say it was him, or her, or it. We make laws. We shun and try to force a conversion...






...and wait----Christians don't shun? This whole thread is about shunning Muslims!

 

Must I protest you ? These days I only stand in spirit at Standing Rock . Really , it is a gathering of the
tribes . That , as a protest , is against unnatural unity . Naturally we embrace the winter together and sing .

 

You know what I reckon would be an even better idea than the ones where you dress up to protest something or to show your dissapproval? I reckon, I reckon that just not saying anything, just go about your day, don't talk about Trump. Don't read about Trump. Just go about your days like you should. Say nothing.

All you guys are doing is trying to be proactive which In Turn becomes reactive.

So, be non active. Be mature. Just go about your business. The silence will in turn have an effect on him, them.. whoever.

But I know y'all won't do this because as long as y'all protest and keep your pie holes and traps moving, you think it'll do something.

 

Oh sure, be a quiet, obedient citizen, that'll show him

I'm mot saying dressing a certain way will do anything, but generally speaking protest in any form is a fundamental right of anyone in a free country and should be exercised more, not less

 

If you have read each of my posts in just this thread, and you still don't see how he is racist, then I don't think there is much I can tell you to convince you----you are part of the problem in a Nation that has repressed the idea of racism because it is supposed to be bad.

But here are two examples:

More than once Trump has singled out a black supporter at one of his rallies and had him removed. Because they were black, he assumed they were protestors and had them removed.

There were numerous racist aspects about his attacks on the American citizen Muslim parents of the war hero killed in combat----but let me just point out one---he verbally attacked the wife and stated his assumption, based on a cultural stereotype, that she wasn't even allowed to talk.

Those are two examples. The racial discrimination against black tenants by Trump and his dad has been well reported in the news and I don't feel like digging out the details. But you can't expect anything big today like burning a cross in someone's yard or lynching people, because this is the 2010's and Trump is a public figure. But people have spoken up about being discriminated against because of color or sex in his shows, and his jobs, and the beauty pagents (well, sex wasn't an issue in the beauty pagents---except in another sense----like him walking into a dressing room of nude and partially clothed young contestants, but that's another matter).


Xenophobia? Gee, that is a hard one-----let me think----was there some cultural/religious group that he was trying to ban from entry into the US, and that he talks of a National registry for...? I just can't think of who he wants to stop from entering the US... In fact----isn't there a group that he dislikes so much that he is willing to stop immigration from numerous countries even if the percentage of the population of that country that is of this group is so small that it is insignificant (Unless it is a Western country of shared Western values with a caucasian population---then there is no ban)... Hmmm, it seems like I was just talking about some religious/cultural/racial group that fits that profile...

 

Hey Tikoo----are you really there?! That's great!!! Oh wait----in spirit-----well that's still great!!!


Mitakuye Oyase!

 

Irminsul-----you should know that this is what so many of the German people did in the years leading up to World War II. They did not believe that in their own country of all places that things would turn as bad as they did. And they chose to be silent and tried to stay out of it. By ignoring they became a part of it. Like a frog that you can boil alive if you turn up the water temperature slow enough.

 

Donald Trump is OUR president. I don't wanna hear any of this "he's not my president" bull shit.

 

Well I can guarantee you the volk were not going to wear some shishkabob to protest anything and more than enough already had agreed and supported what was to come.

You want to know what some folk did to fight for their cause? They walked arm in arm head on into rifle fire. That's what they did. That was their passion and that's how they were going to show it. Arm in arm, hand by side. Marched right into a firefight of bullets without a weapon.

They didn't play dress ups.

 

No, they didn't play dress ups, but everyone else put on swastikas.

As a matter of fact, wearing a keffiyeh as a sign of protest and solidarity with Muslims has been done in Europe for years---usually when there was attempts to ban hijabs and what not. I was in France when I saw a keffiyeh worn in protest and thought it looked like a cool scarf. I got a hold of one and found it to be very comfortable and warm, so I have often worn one as a scarf in the winter----not so obvious as in these photos, but it could be seen through the top of my coat and here in Colorado, which is obviously progressive, I've gotten many comments over the years---always positive. Some people have asked where they could get one, or claimed to have brought one home from the Middle East, or even Europe were I bought my first one.

But what is a key part of the protest?----to get people talking and thinking----and just by suggesting this idea of a protest there almost 100 posts on this thread alone---over just a few days. Obviously it is effective in that regard.

And consider what some people have said here----if they were to put on one in their corner of the US---they could probably be beaten to death as a Muslim or a Muslim sympathizer. Is it playing dress up to put on something that you know will probably get you beaten up or even killed for what it stands for? In fact---if you are alone---it would probably take a lot more bravery than walking hand in hand with others.

In fact, for most Americans, I would have hoped that it was like, what one person posted---a gesture reaching out to show solidarity and support of a group of people and that everyone was overthinking it. After all, the keffiyeh is not a religious or sacred thing that I would offend Muslims and people from the Middle East if I wore. But if people overthink it, then that is a sign that Islamophobia is far more buried into the fabric that is the US then I realized. If I were to be attacked by a fellow citizen because I wore a keffiyeh, then imagine how an actual Muslim feels going out in public in that community?

So let me ask, Irminsul, what makes you so defensive over it? Does it just seem stupid to you? Or does it have something to do with the terrorist attacks in Europe? Or does making yourself look like a Middle Eastern person make you uncomfortable? Are there too many Middle Eastern refugees moving into Bavaria? Middle Eastern immigrants in Europe are more likely to wear a keffiyeh than they are in the US. It is very rare to see them in Middle Eastern communities here. It shouldn't be an issue of seeming fake to you---because if I lived in the Middle East, it wouldn't matter what race I was, it would be comfortable to wear.

You don't have to answer.

 

Noooo it's got nothing to do with race, religion or what feels good to wear in any climate or country. I don't care about any of that.

I'll answer you because I'm not afraid of hurting anyone's feelings over my own person political beliefs or thoughts. They're mine. I'll say it like I see it.

I guess what bothers me is the fact that people actually think this will make a difference. That's what bothers me. Up until now, this whole decade has been devoted to cheating on our taxes and letters to the editor, and that's the best we could do which is deplorable. But we take it a step further to complete idiocy by trying to wear a headdress which means absolutely nothing to many of the people who'll do it, with a belief that it will actually change something. That's what bothers me. And now pink vagina hats. This is the best protest that has been thought of? Three hours of wearing a headdress and then what? Go back to your lives like any other day.

Now if you'd been reading any of my posts dealing with any of this then then that's what you would have read from me, this "you'll still be here, you'll still work, nothing will happen" and for the most part I really do believe that. I'm not totally ignorant, I just don't believe everything politicians tell us. It's mind blowing that before Trump 9/10 people would have agreed with me. That they're all liars, but everything that man has said has literally been held in higher regards than the damn gospel. That's a huge change of opinion from the general public.

But I don't believe it. I believe not much will happen because Trump doesn't get to do what he wants, that's not how being a president or a leader works. They still have people of power and importance to answer to. So, the majority of the racial stuff being said with a wall being built and everyone deported, I'd be very surprised to see it come to any sorts of fruition.

There's just so many things happening in this world to get upset over and just I mean think of it where I'm sitting. I'm going to watch the news to see millions of Americans dressed up like Muslims. It'll be a laughing stock and not just by me, amongst Americans too will treat it like "international pirates day" or something. Y'all will have good fun with it and by the end of the festivities y'all will throw them in the bin like a discarded pretzel at Oktoberfest. And nothing will have changed.

That's what bothers me. It sounds like a good day out, a good piss up! but that's all.

I'm sorry, but I can't respect this type of protest or show of disappreciation. I find it extremely immature and something your forefathers would be ashamed of.

750,000 American boys died in the civil war so that future generations could revolt by wearing hats because they don't particularly take to the next president.

 

I'm going with he's the president. and I'm not going to steal from another culture to protest the inauguration. Sorry it just seems typical hippy america.

 

I also want to address the first part of the "while the Germans didn't dress up they put on swastikas".

Yes, they adorned the swastika because was something they believed in. That National Socialsm was right for Germany. Not everybody believed this, but the ones that did wore the swastika because they believed in it.

None of the people wearing this Muslim headdress actually believe in anything Muslim. It's a charade. It's all for self gratification that you're not as bad as others perceive you to be. It will make you feel better about yourselves and that's it.

 

All said and done, that's my opinion. It may change tomorrow. I don't know.

I harbor my opinions from experience and history which both tell me that in 6months nothing will have happened and in 4years y'all gonna be back on HF complaining about the next guy. That's all my opinion.

I'm not really up to date on any of this, I never have been. I admit that. Maybe stuff I say has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I don't know. Maybe? But it's my opinion.

I came into this world exactly like everybody else did and I'll leave it like everybody else does too, dead. I know my opinions aren't popular, but I still like to think of myself as somewhat human, that maybe just because we don't share an opinion that we can still go on being friends. Opinions on things don't really mean much to me, everyone is entitled to believe what they want no matter what it is if it means that much to you then good! It probably should mean something then.

I'm not going to sit here and cop all the flack for it though. If my "radical" opinions upset people too much then just tell me and I won't have anything to do with you. But you can't overlook me without overlooking everyone else. I don't deserve that based on a matter of differing opinions. I will take who I am to the grave, I won't let 'em take that from me.

 

I think most of us here would appreciate your intelligence Irminsul.

 

I don't even think what I say is intelligent it's just what and how I feel in my heart and my heart is all I have going for me. I have a lot of fire in there.

I know what I say is hypocritical in a way too because Iike, what if this is in the hearts of individuals? This is how and what they want to do and how they want to go about it.

I'm a war monger though. I'm like lieutenant Dan in all my family for generations were in Wars and were fighting wars etc. I think they trickled down into my blood too and this isn't how they'd have protested. We Germans are very good at taking it all to the street. March on München etc.

But this one, you wear a headdress and what does that say about you? They won't be wearing it for any traditional purposes, it's a statement and I find it in bad taste. I hope the Muslims say something about it too. I hope they say "thanks but no, please, do not dress like us.". That'd be icing on the cake for me if I heard that.

What does that say about you, wearing that headdress?

Ignorance really. I understand and appreciate the thought of it, of what it's to accomplish, but I believe it's the wrong way to go about it. That's all really maybe if I narrow it down lol.

 

Well, they could also simply be reactive in a mature way. Right?

 

Lol