hare krishna

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by sleeping jiva, May 8, 2004.

  1. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    Bhakti is not only a vaisnava phenomenon. Simply from a point of view of the poetry of romantic intoxiction with one's Ishta, for simply aesthetic reasons, one would not want to become one's Love... one does not desire to becomes one's lover but to swim in the intoxication of that love. As Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu manifested the dual love fest of Radha and Krishna, then in a mystical sense as the ati-bati Jaganatha dasa taught, that is the nature of all souls to manifest that love as Mahaprabhu so did.

    As per what is Chaitanya's position, one can only say for sure that He sure loved to chant. I for one feel his views were much more liberal than what we have recieved from the Gaudiyas as other traditions show Mahaprabhu in a different light.
     
  2. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    Or purportedly he is not linked with Madhva as the Madhva tradition holds no record of either Madhvendra Puri or Ishvara Puri appearing in their line.
     
  3. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    A.K. Majumdar writes in 'Chaitanya His Life and Doctrine'

    Chapter XXII Sri Chaitanya's Sampradaya page 262

    Chaitanyas Sannyasa is also not free from controversy. According to Murari (II, xviii. 2; III. ii. 7) and the CBh. (II xxvi) he told Keshava Bharati of a mantra which he had recieved in a dream, and Keshava Bharati initiated him with that mantra. (this contradicts Kavi-Karnapura). This was most unusual, and if Chaitanya had not intervened, Keshava Bharati would have initiated hin with a maha-vakya with it's monistic implications to which Chaitanya had the greatest possible objection. Then according to CBh., Keshava Bharati thought that though a Bharati's disciple should be called a Bharati, in this case it would not be proper, hence he gave him the name Sri Krishna Chaitanya.

    Now, according to the organization set up by Samkara mentioned above, the brahmacarins under Sarada-math were to be known as Svarupa, under Govardhana-math as Prakasa, under Jyotir-math as Ananda, and as under Srmgeri-math as Chaitanya. As the Srmgeri-math was the center for Sarasvati, Bharati and the Puri orders, it is most likely that Keshava Bharati conferred on his extraordinary disciple the title of Chaitanya to indicate that the latter was not a full fledged Sannyasin. That this happened in the case of Chaitanya's friend Svarup Damodar is admitted in CC (II.x.106). The possibility, therefore, has to be borne in mind that, Chaitanya probably never adopted what is known formally as Sannyasa.

    A.K. Majumdar was a student of the infamous Dr. S.K. De who intitated him into the study of Gaudiya Vaishnavism.
     
  4. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    There is also much evidence that Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu preferred commentary on the Bhagavata by an Advaitin, Sridhar Swami, over all others including Madhva.

    http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:KH0KGJVTH4EJ:www.granthamandira.org/download.php%3Fimage_id%3D83+sridhar+swami+madhva&hl=en&start=13

    Introduction



    I started this edition of the Gita in order to have the four related commentaries of Sridhar (Subodhiné), Madhusudan Saraswati (Güòhärtha-dépikä), Vishwanath (Särärtha-varñiëé) and Baladeva (Gétä-bhüñaëam) in one place. Sadhale’s edition has eleven full commentaries, but does not include any of these, which appear to form a kind of family with direct relationships between them.


    Sridhar Swami’s commentary was written in Orissa in the early 15th century. Madhusudana Saraswati was a contemporary of Jiva Goswami living in Benares in the latter half of the 16th century. Vishwanath Chakravarti lived in the latter part of the 17th century and Baladeva Vidyabhushan was his junior contemporary and student. The last two scholars belonged to the Chaitanya Vaishnava school, though they lived more than a century after the departure of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself. As such their commentaries are held in particularly great esteem by Gaudiya Vaishnavas and have been published many times by followers of that school.


    Sridhar Swami, though an Advaitavadin, was held in great esteem by Chaitanya, especially for his commentary on the Bhagavata Purana. This respect for Sridhar arises out of his acknowledgement of the importance of bhakti and his sentimental feeling for Vishnu and his incarnations. His commentary, as its name indicates, is a simple gloss of the original text rather than a philosophical discourse based on the Gita, as is the case with Madhusudan.


    Madhusudan Saraswati, a Bengali, lived in the post-Chaitanya period dominated by the Vaishnava bhakti movements. He also was an Advaita-vadin, renowned for numerous philosophical works, most notably Advaita-siddhi and Bhakti-rasäyana. Though in his introduction he gives prominence to Shankaracharya, it is clear that for his fundamental reading of the text, he owes as much, if not more, to Sridhar. He too shows a certain affection for Krishna and the bhakti tradition, quoting several times from the Bhägavata-puräëa, for instance, though his intellectual support for the Advaita doctrines is beyond any doubt. His most well-known verse comes at the conclusion of his commentary:


    vaàçé-vibhüñita-karän nava-néradäbhät
    pétämbaräd aruëa-bimba-phalädharoñöhät |
    pürëendu-sundara-mukhäd aravinda-näbhät
    kåñëät paraà kim api tattvam ahaà na jäne ||

    It is clear that Vishwanath and Baladeva made use of these two commentaries above any other along with that of Ramanuja. However, Madhvacharya, the founder of the Dvaita school of Vedanta, as well as Jayatirtha, his disciple, who also commented on the Gita do not appear to have left any traces on either Gaudiya commentary. This is remarkable in view of the ostensible connection to the Madhva line latterly claimed by the Gaudiya school.


    Vishwanath is generally concise and restricts his comments to elements that specifically distinguish the Gaudiya position, stressing the Bhagavatam as a source text. As usual, Vishwanath is occasionally highly original, though his inspiration comes from Rupa Goswami and Jiva Goswami, the theologians who established Gaudiya doctrine. Baladeva similarly stresses the Gaudiya understanding of theology, but gives a more detailed explanation of the verses, especially drawing on Vedanta to support his position.


    I have also included a few excerpts from other Gaudiya sources, particularly Jiva Goswami’s discussion of the concluding verses of the 18th chapter found in the Kåñëa-sandarbha and Sarva-saàvädiné. It is my intention to compile an index of quoted verses as well as an index of Gita verses as found in Gaudiya texts, i.e., Caitanya-caritämåta, the six Sandarbhas, etc.


    By placing these commentaries in one place, facility is given to future scholars who wish to make an in-depth comparison of them.

    Bibliography



    (Books used in making this edition.)


    With Güòhärtha-dépikä Sanskrit commentary of Madhusüdana Sarasvaté and Hindi commentary of Swämé Sanätanadeva. Notes and introduction by Swämé Yogéndränanda Çästré. Third edition. Varanasi: Chaukhambha Sanskrit Sansthan, 1996.


    With Çaìkara’s Bhäñya. (ed.) Harikåñëadäsa Goyanda (16th edition). Gorakhpur : Gita Press, 1994.


    With Çaìkara’s Bhäñya, the Subodhiné of Çrédhara Svämé, and Särärtha-varñiëé of Viçvanätha Cakravarté. (ed.) Pürëa Candra Viçväsa. Calcutta, 1980.


    With Särärtha-varñiëé of Viçvanätha Cakravarté and Gétä-bhüñaëa of Baladeva Vidyäbhüñaëa. (ed.) Kåñëadäsa. Kusumasarovara: 1956.


    Çaìkara-bhäñyädy-ekädaça-öékopetä. (ed.) Shastri Gajanana Shambhu Sadhale. Delhi: Parimal Publications (reprint), 2000.
     
  5. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    And too there is Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's embracing of the Brahma Samhita which besides being of unknown origins and unknownst to the Sri Vaisnavas as it was alledgedly found by Mahaprabhu in a Sri Vaisnava temple, its character is one of tantra.

    According to Edward Dimock:

    QUOTE
    "It is clear the fifth book, at least, of the Brahma-samhitaa, is a Vaisnava-sahajiya text. For example: "The lotus of a thousand petals is named Gokula, the dwelling-place of the Lord." The "lotus of a thousand petals" is Taantric and Sahajiyaa terminology for the seat of bliss, which in microcosmic physiology is the brain. That it is also called Gokul (a dwelling place of Krsna) is held by later Bengali Vaisnava-sahajiyaas. Although the rest of the chapter is free from references that may called specifically Vaisnava, it is full of references which are Taantric. For example, verses 3-10 treat the Taantric yantra, and speak of Siva as lingam and Sakti, Siva's female counterpart or consort, as yoni. This concept of the metaphysical character of sexual union is basic to the sahajiyaas, and all sects oriented toward the "left-hand" Taantra".
     
  6. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    The importance to me of these posts is that some sects have tried to claim Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as their property whilst it should be obvious to those who explore His being with a liberal mindset that He, as does Jesus, White Buffalo Calf Woman, Buddha and All Saints and Avataras, does not come for one set of people but comes for everyone to fully manifest their love and evolution.
     
  7. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    mahAbhaktagana-saha tAhA gosthi kaila/
    brahmasamhitAdhyaya puthi tAhA pAila//

    In the august assembly of mahabhaktas there, the lord aquired a manuscript of a chapter from Brahma samhita.

    puthi pAiyA prabhura haila Ananda apAra/
    kampAzru-sveda-stambha-pulaka vikAra//

    Procuring that manuscript our lord felt unlimited bliss and was intensly overwhelmed with transformations of ecstacy; he trembled, shed profuse tears, perspired, and was thrilled with horripilation.

    CC Madhya 9
     
  8. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    S.K. De writes in 'Vaishnava Faith and Movement''

    "It appears probable, on the other hand, that Madhavendra Puri and his disciple Isvara Puri were Samkarite Samnyasins of the same type as Sridhara Svamin, who in his great commentary on the Srimad Bhagavata attempted to combine the Advaita teachings of Samkara with the emotionalism of the Bhagavatas."

    " It would seem that about the time of Sridhara himself there must have grown a tendency of tempering the severe monistic idealism of Advaita Vedanta with the devotional worship of a personal God. Sridhara appears to give a definite expression to this tendency in his well known commentaries on the Vishnu Purana, the Bhagavad Gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam, in which he acknowledges Samkaras teachings as authoritative., but considers Bhakti as the Best means of 'Advaita Mukti'.
    footnote; 'The phrase sva-sampradaya at the beginning of his commentary need not be interpreted to mean Vishnusvamin Sampradaya. Jiva Gosvamin (tat-samdarbha, d. berhampore, p.68) dogmatically asserts that Sridhara, whose opinion is accepted as authoritative in the Bengal school, was a true Vaishnava who only tempered his Vaishnavism with Advaita doctrines in such a way as to make it acceptable to the Advaita schools. But there is no evidence to support this statement. On the contrary, at the commencement of his commentary on the Bhagavad Gita, Sridhara distinctly acknowledges the views of the Bhasyakara (i.e. Samkara), and in many places refrains from further explanation by simply referring the reader to Samkara's interpretation. Although Bhakti is his main theme, the Advaita trend of his writings is too obvious to be mistaken.
    chapter 1, Pre-Chaitanya Vaishnavism in Bengal p. 17 1st paragraph;
     
  9. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    That's the way it is with sects - they like to claim they have the 'exclusive rights'.

    I'm sorry Chief if my previous post gave the wrong impression. I wasn't trying to suggest that bhakti is limited to vaishnavas.
    My intention was only to give a very brief and probably flawed quick guide to the different philosophers and their schoools mentioned in your posts, because many may have no idea at all about these matters.
     
  10. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    Different vaisnavas have different takes on this. Radha Krishna lila is among the highest manifestation of love exchange seen and so the vaisnava doesn't want to merge into the All but to be an a part of the lila. So for this reason of poetic romantic rapture do vaisnavas not want to merge due to their devotion to their Ishta and not so much as a philosophical doctrine which is very much a Madhva idea not held by all vaisnavas and so has emerged this "solid jiva energy unit of self" which is if you look at it, not very acintya bheda bheda tattva. Its more just bheda.

    You and I both know from the life of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, that bhakti is very much part of advaitic thought but there is not the rigid idea of self or jiva spark that has come to qualify certain Gaudiya vaisnava camps of Madhva lineage.

    Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taught the idea of "acintya bheda bheda tattva"or the nature of self is simultaneously one with and different from God. The hard core personalists have emphasized "the different" and have cropped the total meaning of the verse. "One with" is not understood by the fundamental personalists and so they try to make apology for Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's accepting initiation into the Sankara school as some aspect of His compassion to deliver Sankirtana or His preference for known advaitin, Sridhara Swami's Bhagavata Purana commentary as somehow Sridhara Swami was just a faking advaitin and he was secretly a dvaitin.

    So what does Mahaprabhu's "qualified nondualism" mean? Imho, it takes two to dance, to love. In the separation of the oneness, there comes this expansion to create, to love, to have pastimes and experience the totality of the All in all its Love.

    Advaitic thought does not deny the experience of love. It is its total celebration.
     
  11. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    I'm glad to see I'm not alone in having noticed this - I mean the tendendy towards a strict dualism present in many Vaishnavas despite Sri Chaitanya's "acintya bheda bheda tattva"- (inc. Srila Prabhupada, I would say.)
     
  12. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    woops, its actually "acintya bheda abheda tattva"

    bheda is the separate or distinct

    abheda is the nonseparate or indistinct
     
  13. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    [​IMG]




    I saw witchcraft tonight in Vraj.
    A wandering gopi came face to face with Shyam.
    Sakhi, she is babbling now,
    can no longer say "milk."
    Come get Shyam, Shyam,
    a pot full of Shyam!

    In the overgrown lanes of Vrindavan
    Shyam Manohar fixed His eye on this girl,
    then departed.
    Meera's Lord is hot, lovely and dark-
    tonight she saw witchcraft in Vraj.

    ~Meerabai





    [​IMG]
     
  14. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    [​IMG]




    Sakhi, I went to the market and bought Shyam.
    You claim at night, I claim by light of day.
    Actually I was beating a drum while I bought him.
    You say I paid too much; I say too little.
    Actually, I put him on a scale before I bought him.
    What I paid was my social body, my town body, my family body,
    and all my inherited jewels.
    Mirabai says: Shyam is my husband now.
    Be with me when I lie down;
    you promised me this in a former life.

    ~Meerabai




    [​IMG]
     
  15. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    [​IMG]



    O my friends,
    What can you tell me of Love,
    Whose pathways are filled with strangeness?
    When you offer the Great One your love,
    At the first step your body is crushed.
    Next be ready to offer your head as his seat.
    Be ready to orbit his lamp like a moth giving in to the flame,
    To be like the deer as she runs toward the hunter's call,
    Like the bird that swallows hot coals for love of the moon,
    Like the fish that, kept from the sea, happily dies.
    Like a bee trapped for life in the closing of the sweet flower.
    Mira has offered herself to her Lord.
    She says, the single Lotus will swallow you whole.


    ~Meerabai
     
  16. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:13:08 +0100 (BST)
    From: Hamsapriye
    Subject: Meera and Radha: Twin Souls of Krishna - I

    Meera Bai:
    ----------

    Devotion for Lord Krishna is equated with a huge range
    of emotions and states of mind - from eroticism and
    sensuality to renunciation and surrender. Complete
    immersion of one's soul in Krishna's soul, is regarded
    as the path to unadulterated devotion for Krishna.
    Radha and Mirabai are seen as the twin zeniths of
    devotion for Lord Krishna. Opposites in some sense and
    yet so much one in their love for the lord, the
    devotion of Mirabai and Radha for Krishna show the
    oneness of eroticism and renunciation, and finally,
    the convergence of both into the omnipresent soul of
    Krishna in the form of single-minded love and
    devotion.

    Meera sings:
    "Guide this little boat over the waters,
    what can I give you for fare?
    Our mutable world holds nothing but grief,
    bear me away from it.
    Eight bonds of karma
    have gripped me,
    the whole of creation
    swirls through eight million wombs,
    through eight million birth-forms we flicker.
    Mira cries. Dark One
    take this little boat to the far shore,
    put an end to coming and going"

    Meerabai was a born poetess. Through her numerous
    poems, marked with simplicity and lack of pretension,
    she has beautifully expressed her intensity and depth
    of love for Krishna. Meerabai's bhajans (songs
    dedicated to the lord), composed centuries ago still
    capture the thoughts and emotions of devotees today.
    These songs are highly regarded for the mystic quality
    as well as their rich inner meanings. Meerabai offered
    her soul to the lord, singing and dancing, in a
    trance, to please her beloved and her lord, Krishna.
    And through these songs and her devotion she has left
    behind a legacy of thoughts and ways of making one's
    soul reach Lord Krishna.

    Portraying herself as a lover of Krishna, longing for
    him, Mirabai's poetry puts love for Krishna above love
    for friends and family. She perceived Krishna to be
    her husband, lover, lord and master. Even though those
    around her try to stop her from her quest for Krishna,
    she remains unstoppable in her pursuit of Krishna,
    whatever the consequences.

    Making use of erotic imagery as one of the tools to
    portray her love for Krishna, she is able to describe
    her pining for him, her quest for union with him. Even
    though her symbolism is erotic, her love is divine and
    pure - selfless, all-absorbing, immaculate, insatiable
    and endless. The expression of Mira's love is very
    intimate in nature.

    It is through love that she communes with God. "Mira's
    Lord is none other than Giridhara." (Giridhara being
    Krishna) - these are usually the ending words of
    Meera's poems which are predominantly an expression of
    her oneness with Krishna. Mira's love for Krishna is
    all-encompassing. The lord of her heart and soul, she
    used to weep for him and spend sleepless nights for a
    sight of him. Mirabai says she had "sold" herself -
    surrendered herself - completely to him. She says "I
    am colored with the color of dusk", dusk implying the
    color of Krishna. As if her love for Krishna permeated
    every pore of her body, just like dye permeates a
    garment. This aspect of union through surrender is
    predominant in Mira's poetry.

    For Mirabai, her freedom lay in her union with her
    lord. She sings:

    "Love in which there is laughter and sobbing,
    Moaning, throbbing and clasping in tight embrace,
    That alone is liberation for me,
    I care for no other."

    This great saint of Hinduism and one the greatest
    devotees of Krishna, Mirabai was born into the royal
    family of Rana Ratan Singh of Merta in Rajasthan in
    1498 A.D. As a three-year old child she grew extremely
    fond of a statue of Lord Krishna. So much so that her
    mother had once jokingly remarked that Krishna would
    one day be the girl's (Mirabai's) groom. This remark
    made an indelible mark on the impressionable mind of
    the young child.

    She nurtured the notion of Krishna being her sole
    lord, her lover, friend and husband as she matured
    into a woman. She agreed to her marriage to Rana
    Kumbha of Mewar in Rajasthan, against her heart's
    wishes, to honor her grandfather's promise to Rana
    Kumbha. In spite of her marriage, her heart still
    belonged to Lord Krishna and she spent a great deal of
    time in the Krishna temple at her husband's palace,
    albeit after fulfilling her household duties.
    Conspiracies were unfortunately hatched against her by
    several around her, to defame her, and eventually to
    kill her, but all of those could not deter her from
    her chosen path of devotion. Her husband however is
    seen to have been a sympathizer of Mirabai, till her
    death in 1546 A.D. According to other versions,
    though, it is believed that her husband died within
    ten years of their marriage.

    Such great was her devotion that it is believed that
    she merged with the lord in his temple at Dwarka in
    Gujarat. According to one version, she is believed to
    have entered the sanctum of the temple in a state of
    singing ecstacy. The sanctum doors are believed to
    have closed on their own and when later opened, the
    sari (garment) of Mirabai was seen enwrapped around
    the idol of lord Krishna.

    Through her devotion-filled yet tumultuous life she
    gained a number of enemies, owing to her rising fame
    and her undeterred and unconventional devotion to Lord
    Krishna. But more than she gained enemies, she gained
    followers and admirers. Not only the common people,
    but also the Mughal emperor Akbar and his famous court
    musician, Tansen, are believed to have visited her in
    disguise and are said to have touched her feet, in awe
    of her devotion for Lord Krishna.

    What set apart Meera from the other devotees of
    Krishna was that she looked upon Krishna as her
    husband, rather than only as a master. She believed
    that in her previous life she was one of the several
    gopis in Vrindavan, in love with Krishna (Vrindavan
    was the place where Krishna spent most of his
    childhood. Gopis were the several female companions of
    Krishna). Mira used to consider herself an incarnation
    of one of the gopis mentioned in the Bhagavata Purana,
    called Lalita, a very close female companion of Radha,
    who was the greatest devotee and a beloved of Lord
    Krishna.

    Much like the gopis, as mentioned in tales of Krishna,
    Mirabai looked upon Krishna as her lover, seeking
    physical union with him. Her writings were at the same
    time, spiritual and erotic. Mira's songs portray a
    personal universe where the only existence was that of
    Krishna - her sole object of desire.

    Through her love songs addressed to her beloved,
    Krishna, Meera paints on a literary canvas, the
    longing of the individual soul (atman) to merge with
    the universal soul (paramatman). These songs talk
    about the beauty of the object of her love and her
    passion and longing for union with him, the madness of
    her love, and the pain of separation from him. They
    oscillated between feelings of sensual bodily love for
    the lord to a state of spiritual love, but at all
    times, openly describing her heart's longings. Within
    the songs, she shifted between feeling anguish at
    being separated from her lover to feeling jealousy and
    suspicion about her lover. At other times she would be
    ecstatic with visions of being close to him. At all
    moments, she would imagine herself to be a part of the
    existence of Lord Krishna, as she would imagine him to
    be a part of her existence.

    Even when, at times, her poetry describes scenes of
    Krishna's childhood pranks, as described in various
    Hindu texts, she does not fail to superimpose her own
    character as one of the lovelorn Gopis in the scenes.
    One of these songs depicts the story of the young
    Krishna stealing the clothes of the gopis as they
    bathed in the river Yamuna. Mirabai imagines herself
    as one of the gopis and sings about her true spiritual
    self being revealed to the lord as she stood naked in
    front of Krishna.

    Mirabai's state of mind is typically called madhurya
    by the Vaishnavas, followers of a prominent school of
    Hinduism. In such a state, love for God acquires the
    flavor of a relationship that is found in the union of
    the lover with the beloved.

    A Mira poem is traditionally called a Pada, a term
    used by the 14th century preachers for a small
    spiritual song. This is usually composed in simple
    rhythms and carries a refrain within itself. Her
    collection of songs is called the Padavali. Primarily
    devotional in nature, Mirabai uses sprinklings of
    eroticism in her songs. The typicality of Indian love
    poetry of those days was used by Mirabai but as an
    instrument to express her deepest emotions felt for
    her lord. Her typical medium of singing was
    Vraja-bhasha, a dialect of Hindi spoken in and around
    Vrindavan (the childhood home of Krishna), sometimes
    mixed with Rajasthani.

    As compared to the literature of the then-existing
    Hindu schools of devotion (bhakti), which typically
    saw devotees as servants of the lord, Meera Bai's
    poetic preoccupation with worship and love as it
    exists between lovers, sets apart her devotional
    philosophy. This love-based philosophy of Meera Bai
    took time to catch on but as she grew popular, her
    songs and philosophy caught the imagination of the
    common-folk as a means of reaching out to their
    popular deity, Lord Krishna. Disregarding her royal
    lineage, Meera Bai traveled across vast distances of
    North India, spreading her gospel of love for Krishna
    being the only weapon that could conquer the transient
    nature of life. Through her tender and simple odes and
    hymns, which were rich, sweet, inspiring, and yet void
    of any rhetoric or esoteric language, she brought to
    the masses the genuine outpourings of a heart
    dedicated completely to the lord.

    When seen in the context of the conservative and
    male-dominated society with a unidimensional
    perception of life and religion, Mirabai can be seen
    as a perfect example of a woman - a symbol of courage
    and defiance - who was far ahead of her times in
    seeking freedom not only from social barriers but also
    the ultimate freedom from the bondage of human
    existence. The insane nature of Meera's love for Lord Krishna and
    the sheer frenzy of her passion saw her face the
    intense and brutal opposition of her ways by society
    and family, with calmness and patience. Her intense
    experiences of love for Krishna can only be explained
    as those had by a divine lover, and not by a docile
    lover. The singular and all-encompassing truth of her
    life was her love for the lord and that is what
    allowed her to face all the turmoil and opposition
    that came along with the conviction that she had
    towards her love. In her state of frenzied pursuit of
    Krishna, she was totally oblivious of the world of
    political intrigue and royal life she was surrounded
    by.
     
  17. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Tired of chicken soup for the soul?


    Try Dal sabzi for the Atman

    http://www.dalsabzi.com/

    The items about Ma Indira Devi are particularly interesting. She was a great devotee of Mirabai, and received many songs from Her whilst in states of samhadi.
     
  18. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    ok, I'll try it out.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Beautiful picture Chief.


    For a full account of Ma Indira see "Pilgrims of the Stars" by Her and Sri Dilip Kumar Roy, co-founders of Hari Krishna Mandir. Here is just one of the Songs Ma Indira received in trance from Mirabai:

    From which shores, taveller, dost thou hail,
    For which art thou bound still?
    Hast thou forgotten in thy blind voyage
    And missed what thou shoudst will?

    This world is but a wayside inn,
    Thy true home waits thee afar:
    Be not path-lost in thy maze of karma,
    O pilgrim of the star!

    Why cull the painted shells, pale baubles,
    To regret the wasted pains?
    Plunge, dive in the deep, if thou wouldst win
    The pearl that knows no stains.

    No seed is sown in the soil of prayer
    But flowers in God's own bloom.
    Though steep is the path and unglimpsed the goal,
    Walk in faith's light in the gloom.
     
  20. space_cowboy

    space_cowboy Member

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    Why are they called Hare Krishna's when they have shaved heads? Shouldn't they be called Barely Hare Krishna's?

    Just a thought.

    I tried reading through some of these posts, but my eyes glazed over and I felt like screaming "BUT WHY DO THEY HAVE TO CALL IT GAWD-HEAD?"

    Just a thought.

    Is Krishna a polytheistic religion? How many God's do you feel are needed in order to get it right?

    Just a thought.

    Is Krishna a dude? And if he is why the skirt and makeup?

    Is there some esoteric message there?

    Just a thought.
     

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