The General Election

The main thing that disappoints me with Labour so far is that they don't appear to be sending out tangible policies . As someone said on this forum Labour are faffing about .

The thing is the Tories are more organised and say things like the reduction of Business Rate tax which will appeal to many small and medium sized businesses . As my other job is a No2 in a small family run business , I can see the appeal as its been difficult over the past few years to place investment back in the business .

I am hoping the forthcoming TV debate will make some of Labour's policies more clearer .

 

Maybe you haven't heard what I've heard:

Re-nationalisation of the railways, water, power and the NHS.
4 day working week.
Part of BT to be re-nationalised to give all homes and businesses fast broadband.
Stronger workers' rights.
Investment in green energy.
Investment in education and adult retraining.
Renegotiate Brexit with a customs union and then put it to a public vote.

These seem like tangible policies to me.

 

Promises of Policies I've heard before, * Workers rights, much stronger within the EU, Broadband there are practical as well as financial issue, and there will be No renegotiate of Brexit, - only compromise

 

LOL

People should realise the Brexit Party is a right wing group that is led by neoliberals don’t you?

It believes in cutting services, privatising the NHS and getting rid of workers’ rights I mean how dumb must these people think those who vote for the Brexit Party are?

.

The right wing have been in power for the last 20 years since 2010 at least, so what the fuck are they going on about?

Again nobody here seems to be realistically disputing that all the problems with the defunding of the NHS, schools and public services are the fault of right wing policies.

So what gives?

This is like watching your dog doing a big dump on the living room carpet than then turning around and blaming the cat.

LOL what it sounds like Brexit Party actually wrote the ad to attack the Tories but then Farage got into bed with Boris so they just got the tipex out and wrote in Labour over the top.

How blinkered must someone be to fall for this crap.

 

At this time I think it is all about NOT letting Boris’s Tories in because this is the most hard-line neoliberal Conservative Party ever if any moderate do get elected they are going to be kept away from power so for all the promises Boris is giving what the most likely outcome if they get a majority is a hard even crash out Brexit and more austerity but this time on steroids.

Vote tactically and if that means voting Labour then hold your nose and do it especially if you are a remainer, because if that happens its likely to get a hung parliament and at least you can have another vote in 4 years (or less) to throw that government out BUT if the Tories get in then a hard Brexit and its repercussions will not be sorted out for a generation or more.

 

My brother worked in the nhs in inventory.
He said they could choose between a box of syringes for let’s say £10

Or they could choose them£100 box. All the sam
He said they always choose the latter. He worked there 10+ years said everyone knew the difference was nothing more than brand name. Functionality was the same

Point in naming is thus country doesn’t always need more money. Just needs better management and I don’t think labours plan of spending cuts the mustard. It’s like a plaster on a bullet wound in fact

he said the bureaucracy of the NHS was worried about budget cuts so never acting efficiently in their decision making.

the high street in no better. Some big businesses going bust but refused to change with the times

Primark has a Disney cafe and hairdressers. They have made shopping more immersive. They are popular.

fed up of people thinking more money is the answer when the reality is people are bone idle

 

Like Tony Blairs "New" Labour party did?

 

Which is why 'new labour' policies have been ditched and the Labour Party has returned to its 'socialist' principles it once had some decades ago !!!

 

Well I watched the ITV debate last night and I thought in my eyes the score was

Boris 1 Jeremy 1

I don't think either leader won any of the audience over . Boris scored better on Brexit and Jeremy scored better on the NHS .Boris came over to me as a "One Trick Pony" ie Brexit. which became rather tedious for me.

There was nothing for me about the North West which was disappointing as this will be a key issue for me.

There was very little for the younger voters like my son who will be voting for the first time. The younger ones find things like climate issues more important than topics like Brexit.

I just think it needed a longer show to cover more topics.

 

IB

Yes people can say anything on the internet it’s hard to fact check, but this seems so convenient, oh you have this brother, oh he just happens to work in the NHS and oh he just happens to work in inventory, and then oh no he can’t actually give an real price only a ‘lets say’ price – and all of this just happens to back up a point you are trying to make.

Oh yeah

*

I mean you seem to be saying there is only one type of syringe but are many different ones I mean just in size alone it can go from say 5ml to 60ml and there are syringes for specific uses. The NHS actually produce Clinical reviews and reports on syringes (just google it)

And looking at a NICE report [Costing statement: Needle and Syringe programmes] the unit price for a simple needle/syringes used in that programme cost £0.02 for needle and £0.03 for the syringe that would be £0.05 per injection – and making a box of 100 syringes just £3.

Anyway as I’ve mentioned several times I know people who work in the NHS (none of them are my brother) and this doesn’t fit in to what they say about the NHS.

So having set up your brother as the expert witness - you then use this convenient brother to put forward a political point you agree with which is that the NHS even after years of defunding and with the strain obviously showing does NOT need more money.

As I say convenient

So you think the people in the NHS are bone idle – the problems with the NHS are about the doctors and nurses been lazy?

And LOL this from the person that’s too ‘bone idle’ to read through threads he wants to comment in - As I said before right wingers always call others ‘bone idle’ when they seem to be the laziest people out there.

 

I concur about Primark . The large one in Manchester is always busy and it has a Beautician for the ladies and a Barbers for the gents. All appear to be doing well and very popular .When it comes to clothes there is some decent quality stuff . I bought a jacket last year and it a Harris Tweed tailored sports jack/sport coat and at £85.00 its probably the most expensive item of clothing I have ever bought from them.

Other business could do with looking at their business model as its doing so well and bucking the trend of closures.

 

Mysteron

I have a 14 year old daughter so not a voter yet but I know what you mean – but as I explained to her the neoliberal types that are pushing for Brexit either deny climate change or don’t give a fuck about it. I mean Farage has said that if we followed green policies we’d all be living I caves and Boris has cast doubt on the validity of climate change which he has said is ‘without foundation’.

The big thing for neoliberals is deregulation to maximise profits – does many sane person think they will keep environmental regulations that at the moment they views as cutting into big corporation profits?

 

And public infrastructure is important as well – I mean due to municipal cuts many places have become run down and not always the most salubrious places to hang out in. Also public transport has been cut back so it can become a chore to get into town. I live in London which is overly served with transport and great places to shop, but public money has been spent on them, but I have family in other places that don’t because they have been cut (one place is Northampton where the Tory council went bankrupt) .

If getting to the high street means having to wait in the cold for half an hour to ride in a packed badly ventilated bus only to get somewhere with overflowing bins and doorways that smell of urine then of course people are going to shop on Amazon.

 

Mysteron

As I’ve said Cummings is running this GENERAL election campaign as if it was a simple yes/not referendum on Brexit – the leavers knew they could win an actual yes/no referendum but a General election is a very different fish

It is first past the post and based on constituencies

A yes/no referendum is simply – no political party loyalties get in the way no other issues to think about and a clear tally of those that voted Yes or No

A GENERAL election does involve political party loyalties – if you are a leaver but in general prefer labour party policies you are going to be conflicted same for Conservative remainers.

In a GENERAL election it is lots of little races where there are safe seats and marginal, safe seats are where one party or another always win and marginals places were only a few votes can swing it one way or another you could literally have just one vote saying who is the winner.

This system means that the political Party’s that get control of the government have power in excess (often far in excess) to their mandate.

For example even though Margret Thatcher’s as leader of the Conservatives won three elections the Tory’s never polled more than 43% of the popular vote. I’ve been told that the last time a UK government was elected with more than 50% of the popular vote was back in 1931.

You could say a yes/no referendum is very democratic but a General elect as it is now is not even close.

So a General election should not be treated like a yes/no referendum because that would be morally dishonest but I don’t think Dominic Cummings or Boris Johnson care that much about morals.

 

Corbyn just looks like that teacher in high school, or lecturer at Uni everyone hated, you know what I mean

 

I don't disagree. But I also think Boris looks like a stand up comedian . Neither for me are PM material and others do think that way as well going of reports .For me the only leader who shown any leadership qualities and is passionate about her country is Nicola Sturgeon . But she isn't going to be good for keeping the Union together .

 

Financial Times

 

Boris did seem to have a larger than usual head during the debate, studio lighting or something, but thats a huge head

 

Yes, but its empty and they do say empty vessels make most noise !!!

 

Thing is that we are not voting for Boris or Corbyn but for the policies of the Conservative or Labour Party this is not an American style Presidential race we live in a Parliamentary system.

Personalities are important but they are not the be all and end all what we seem to be getting for the Conservatives is Brexit, Brexit and Brexit because frankly their policies are rubbish, we are getting policies from Labour but their approach to Brexit is crap.