Presbyterian, Methodist, or Church of England?

These seem to be the three main types of Christian church (at least here in the UK).


Does anyone know the differences between them? They all seem pretty much the same. The church I normally go to is the Presbyterian church, but there's a Methodist one much nearer and I was thinking of going to that.

 

Don't forget the catholics.

 

Sorry. I didn't include the catholics because their religion seems quite far removed from conventional Christianity. It's virtually a completely different religion. Whereas the others seem almost identical. (But then again I'm not really sure!)

 

Methodist are pretty cool folks. The church founders John and Charles Wesly were vegetarian and were pacifists. Seventh-day Adventists are pretty cool too.(most are vegetarian as well)

 

catholics believe in the trinitarian god, they believe in the resurection of the dead, believe christs sacrafice gave man the key to salvation. those are basically the tenants people would use to identify what is christian.

 

It could be argued that all these other denominations derive from catholicism. Some would say they are watered down versions.

 

It is certain that Catholocism (both Roman and Eastern Orthodox) are Christian. I really don't know that much about EO Catholocism, but I can give you the main doctrinal differences.

Both Protestants and Catholics agree on the essentials of the Christian faith. They believe in the Incarnation, the Trinity, the literal Ressurection, and Salvation by faith.

It is important to note that both sides have strong arguments to support their positions.

Here are the differences:
P: Salvation comes by faith alone.
C: Salvation comes by faith supplemented by works.

P: Sola Scriptura (scripture alone is authoritative)
C: scripture is authoritative, as is Church Tradition

P: venerate Christ alone
C: SOME Catholic churches venerate Mary and the Saints to the point of worship (not all do). As a rule, Catholics place much more importance on the Saints and Mary than Protestants do.

P: no human is infallible
C: when speaking on morality, the Pope is completely infallible

I can't think of any more major differences, but I am sure that there are more.

 

Alsharad, thanks. These are all things that make me think of Catholocism as a completely different religion. It's not something I would want to follow. It seems far removed from my own faith.

 

faith with out works is dead

church tradition is the account of the holy spirits inspiration/interaction with the church after the new testament was comprised. the protestant view on this denies the continueing work of god and think he quit teaching 2000 years ago.

veneration doesnt equal worship

the pope isnt infallible on account he's pope, but that the holy spirit guides him on decisons of morality. its hypocritical for protestants to use this against catholics since protestants believe the letters of paul to be authorative, paul as well as all other biblical persons were only people, yet there works are considered infallible word of god.

whether you want to hear this or not, protestantism is a cult that only came on the seen 500 years ago. the catholic church can trace its history from pope to pope eventually to peter then jesus.

 

Works come as a result of faith, not in conjunction with them immediately. The faith is the necessary component.

For by grace we have been saved though faith.
The just shall live by faith.

The entire point of the New Testament is the requirement to clarify the old testament, prophesy (and to vindicate), and to spread the news of Christ's death and resurrection. Everything else is moral teaching. Is there any NEW revelation that is NOT addressed in scripture?

Here's a question: On what authority does the Catholic Church base the doctrine of Church Tradition? Most Catholics respond that it was set up in Scripture. This is not a problem, except that Church Tradition is considered to be as authoritative as Scripture.
Here's the problem: If two items are claimed to be authoritative (be they experts, or texts), they must rely on independent sources for validating their authority. However, Scripture bases its authority on its own merit (that it is the word of God) but Tradition bases its authority not on its own merit, but on the authority of Scripture. One cannot use Scripture to support Church Tradition because to do so would be to imply that Scripture is a *higher* authority that Tradition. Catholics do not believe this. As such, their posistion in this matter is inconsistent.

No, but prayer is a form of worship. This is not just my idea, it is scriptural. To pray to Mary or another saint is to worhip them. Having respect or even love for the Saints is not at all wrong or harmful, but to pray to them implies worship.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 2559) states, “Prayer is the raising of one’s mind and heart to God or the requesting of good things from God.”

Now, you might say that you don't pray to Mary or the saints. So, what is prayer:

prayer (prâr)
n.

1. 1. A reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship.
   2. The act of making a reverent petition to God, a god, or another object of worship.
2. An act of communion with God, a god, or another object of worship, such as in devotion, confession, praise, or thanksgiving: One evening a week, the family would join together in prayer.
3. A specially worded form used to address God, a god, or another object of worship.
4. prayers A religious observance in which praying predominates: morning prayers.
5. 
   
   
   
   1. A fervent request: Her prayer for rain was granted at last.
   2. The thing requested: His safe arrival was their only prayer.

You cannot extracate prayer from worship. If you do not pray to Mary or the saints (meaning you do not commune with them in devotion, concession, praise, or thanksgiving), then what the heck are Catholics doing when they kneel before icons of Mary or the saints? Why do Catholics produce publicly documents which pray to Mary or St. Michael, etc.?

Paul was an apostle (given the apostolic definition given in Acts 1). The words of the apostles are considered authoritative. The pope is not an apostle. Also, the authors performed works and miracles as vindication that they were, in fact, speakers for God. What has the Pope done to vindicate his position as the mouthpeice of God? (note: if you say "being the pope" as an answer, then you are begging the question)

Another thing that is important to note is whether the Papal office has ever addressed anything from a moral perspective and come up with an answer that is new or unique AND that is neither contradictory to nor could be inferred through scripture.

Is that before or after the great schism? And, given the scope of Protestantism across the globe, at least give us the credit of calling us a division of Christianity (rather than the more ignoble word "cult"). Also note, that the same could be said of Catholics when the Pope was excommunicated from the "true" church (the Eastern Orthodox).
Don't forget, being older doesn't, by necessity, make the Roman Catholic church correct. However, as St. Paul said "test all things in light of scripture." If tradition becomes contradictory to scripture, it should be tossed.

That isn't saying that tradition is bad or should not have a high place in our understanding of scripture and worship, but Scripture is the final authority (sola scriptura and all that jazz).

 

its spelled s-c-e-n-e. not s-e-e-n. Good works are the result of faith and having a saving relationship with God.

Protestantism is not a cult. The Catholic Church is not the oldest church. The Ethopian Orthodox Church aka Coptic Church predates the Catholic Church by 300 years. The Ethiopian Royal Treasurer was baptized by Phillip less than one year after the resurrection. He then brought Christianity to Ethopia. Peter was not the first Pope. Matthew 16:18 Says "You are Peter(petros in Aramaic) and upon this rock(petra) will I build my church." Matt. 16:18 Petros in Aramaic means small rock. Petra means boulder or mountain. Jesus was refering to himself as the foundation of the Church NOT Peter. Popes can't be married and we know that Peter was married because Jesus healed Peter's mother is law. The Catholic Church wasn't established until 300 years after Christs death and resurrection. Ever since the time of the Apostles there have been small pockets of people that refused to submit to Rome and stayed true to teachings of the teaching of Christ. The Reformation brougth their beliefs out into the open and swelled their ranks.

Throughout history The Catholic Church has had a nasty habit of imprisoning and murdering those that disagreed with them. For instance, William Tyndale translated the Bible into English and had it printed en masse so the common people could read it and know God's truth for themselves. The Catholic Church burned him at the stake for his trouble. Then there's the Spanish Inquisition, the murder of the Waldenses,Huegenots etc, etc.... Do those actions seem very Christ- like? As Jesus said "By their fruits,you shall know them"

 

its not the oldest? heres a list of the popes-

1. St. Peter (32-67)
2. St. Linus (67-76)
3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4. St. Clement I (88-97)
5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) -- also called Xystus I
8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
10. St. Pius I (140-155)
11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
12. St. Soter (166-175)
13. St. Eleutherius (175-189)
14. St. Victor I (189-199)
15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
16. St. Callistus I (217-22)
17. St. Urban I (222-30)
18. St. Pontain (230-35)
19. St. Anterus (235-36)
20. St. Fabian (236-50)
21. St. Cornelius (251-53)
22. St. Lucius I (253-54)
23. St. Stephen I (254-257)
24. St. Sixtus II (257-258)
25. St. Dionysius (260-268)
26. St. Felix I (269-274)
27. St. Eutychian (275-283)
28. St. Caius (283-296) -- also called Gaius
29. St. Marcellinus (296-304)
30. St. Marcellus I (308-309)
31. St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
32. St. Miltiades (311-14)
33. St. Sylvester I (314-35)
34. St. Marcus (336)
35. St. Julius I (337-52)
36. Liberius (352-66)
37. St. Damasus I (366-83)
38. St. Siricius (384-99)
39. St. Anastasius I (399-401)
40. St. Innocent I (401-17)
41. St. Zosimus (417-18)
42. St. Boniface I (418-22)
43. St. Celestine I (422-32)
44. St. Sixtus III (432-40)
45. St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
46. St. Hilarius (461-68)
47. St. Simplicius (468-83)
48. St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
49. St. Gelasius I (492-96)
50. Anastasius II (496-98)
51. St. Symmachus (498-514)
52. St. Hormisdas (514-23)
53. St. John I (523-26)
54. St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
55. Boniface II (530-32)
56. John II (533-35)
57. St. Agapetus I (535-36) -- also called Agapitus I
58. St. Silverius (536-37)
59. Vigilius (537-55)
60. Pelagius I (556-61)
61. John III (561-74)
62. Benedict I (575-79)
63. Pelagius II (579-90)
64. St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
65. Sabinian (604-606)
66. Boniface III (607)
67. St. Boniface IV (608-15)
68. St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
69. Boniface V (619-25)
70. Honorius I (625-38)
71. Severinus (640)
72. John IV (640-42)
73. Theodore I (642-49)
74. St. Martin I (649-55)
75. St. Eugene I (655-57)
76. St. Vitalian (657-72)
77. Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
78. Donus (676-78)
79. St. Agatho (678-81)
80. St. Leo II (682-83)
81. St. Benedict II (684-85)
82. John V (685-86)
83. Conon (686-87)
84. St. Sergius I (687-701)
85. John VI (701-05)
86. John VII (705-07)
87. Sisinnius (708)
88. Constantine (708-15)
89. St. Gregory II (715-31)
90. St. Gregory III (731-41)
91. St. Zachary (741-52)
92. Stephen II (752)
93. Stephen III (752-57)
94. St. Paul I (757-67)
95. Stephen IV (767-72)
96. Adrian I (772-95)
97. St. Leo III (795-816)
98. Stephen V (816-17)
99. St. Paschal I (817-24)
100. Eugene II (824-27)
101. Valentine (827)
102. Gregory IV (827-44)
103. Sergius II (844-47)
104. St. Leo IV (847-55)
105. Benedict III (855-58)
106. St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
107. Adrian II (867-72)
108. John VIII (872-82)
109. Marinus I (882-84)
110. St. Adrian III (884-85)
111. Stephen VI (885-91)
112. Formosus (891-96)
113. Boniface VI (896)
114. Stephen VII (896-97)
115. Romanus (897)
116. Theodore II (897)
117. John IX (898-900)
118. Benedict IV (900-03)
119. Leo V (903)
120. Sergius III (904-11)
121. Anastasius III (911-13)
122. Lando (913-14)
123. John X (914-28)
124. Leo VI (928)
125. Stephen VIII (929-31)
126. John XI (931-35)
127. Leo VII (936-39)
128. Stephen IX (939-42)
129. Marinus II (942-46)
130. Agapetus II (946-55)
131. John XII (955-63)
132. Leo VIII (963-64)
133. Benedict V (964)
134. John XIII (965-72)
135. Benedict VI (973-74)
136. Benedict VII (974-83)
137. John XIV (983-84)
138. John XV (985-96)
139. Gregory V (996-99)
140. Sylvester II (999-1003)
141. John XVII (1003)
142. John XVIII (1003-09)
143. Sergius IV (1009-12)
144. Benedict VIII (1012-24)
145. John XIX (1024-32)
146. Benedict IX (1032-45)
147. Sylvester III (1045)
148. Benedict IX (1045)
149. Gregory VI (1045-46)
150. Clement II (1046-47)
151. Benedict IX (1047-48)
152. Damasus II (1048)
153. St. Leo IX (1049-54)
154. Victor II (1055-57)
155. Stephen X (1057-58)
156. Nicholas II (1058-61)
157. Alexander II (1061-73)
158. St. Gregory VII (1073-85)
159. Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
160. Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
161. Paschal II (1099-1118)
162. Gelasius II (1118-19)
163. Callistus II (1119-24)
164. Honorius II (1124-30)
165. Innocent II (1130-43)
166. Celestine II (1143-44)
167. Lucius II (1144-45)
168. Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)
169. Anastasius IV (1153-54)
170. Adrian IV (1154-59)
171. Alexander III (1159-81)
172. Lucius III (1181-85)
173. Urban III (1185-87)
174. Gregory VIII (1187)
175. Clement III (1187-91)

 

^cont.
Celestine III (1191-98)
Innocent III (1198-1216)
Honorius III (1216-27)
Gregory IX (1227-41)
Celestine IV (1241)
Innocent IV (1243-54)
Alexander IV (1254-61)
Urban IV (1261-64)
Clement IV (1265-68)
Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
Blessed Innocent V (1276)
Adrian V (1276)
John XXI (1276-77)
Nicholas III (1277-80)
Martin IV (1281-85)
Honorius IV (1285-87)
Nicholas IV (1288-92)
St. Celestine V (1294)
Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)
Clement V (1305-14)
John XXII (1316-34)
Benedict XII (1334-42)
Clement VI (1342-52)
Innocent VI (1352-62)
Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
Gregory XI (1370-78)
Urban VI (1378-89)
Boniface IX (1389-1404)
Innocent VII (1404-06)
Gregory XII (1406-15)
Martin V (1417-31)
Eugene IV (1431-47)
Nicholas V (1447-55)
Callistus III (1455-58)
Pius II (1458-64)
Paul II (1464-71)
Sixtus IV (1471-84)
Innocent VIII (1484-92)
Alexander VI (1492-1503)
Pius III (1503)
Julius II (1503-13)
Leo X (1513-21)
Adrian VI (1522-23)
Clement VII (1523-34)
Paul III (1534-49)
Julius III (1550-55)
Marcellus II (1555)
Paul IV (1555-59)
Pius IV (1559-65)
St. Pius V (1566-72)
Gregory XIII (1572-85)
Sixtus V (1585-90)
Urban VII (1590)
Gregory XIV (1590-91)
Innocent IX (1591)
Clement VIII (1592-1605)
Leo XI (1605)
Paul V (1605-21)
Gregory XV (1621-23)
Urban VIII (1623-44)
Innocent X (1644-55)
Alexander VII (1655-67)
Clement IX (1667-69)
Clement X (1670-76)
Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)
Alexander VIII (1689-91)
Innocent XII (1691-1700)
Clement XI (1700-21)
Innocent XIII (1721-24)
Benedict XIII (1724-30)
Clement XII (1730-40)
Benedict XIV (1740-58)
Clement XIII (1758-69)
Clement XIV (1769-74)
Pius VI (1775-99)
Pius VII (1800-23)
Leo XII (1823-29)
Pius VIII (1829-30)
Gregory XVI (1831-46)
Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
Leo XIII (1878-1903)
St. Pius X (1903-14)
Benedict XV (1914-22)
Pius XI (1922-39)
Pius XII (1939-58)
Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
Paul VI (1963-78)
John Paul I (1978)
John Paul II (1978—)

 

oh hell. here we go again. i think when people refer to catholocism not being the oldest christian sect, they're refusing the claims that having a pope means you're religion hasn't changed from the original. and if it's changed so radically, then it's not the same religion at all.

 

any change in the church came as a result of further revalations, which protestants reject because they believe only in the bible and disbeilieve gods continuing teachings to his people. thats the main difference between protestantism and the catholic church, even though protestans will say the difference is because of the churches teaching on things like the value of seeking marys intercession and other unique practices to the catholic church, it all boils down to whether a person believes god continued his teachings.

 

The Catholic Church uses Matthew 16:18 as proof that Peter was the first Pope.

Let's take a look at this passage. "You are Peter(Petros) and upon this rock(Petra) will I build my church. Matthew 16:18 Jesus spoke Aramaic as well as Hebrew. Matthew was written in Aramaic. Petros in Aramaic means small rock . Petra means boulder or mountain. Jesus was refering to himself as the rock,the foundation of the church. We know that Peter was married because Jesus healed Peter's mother in law. That is how we know that Peter was NOT the first Pope.The Bible never mentions Peter as the head of the church. Jesus said that no one come to the Father except through him. NOT MARY! When Gabriel appeared to Mary, Mary refered to herself as the hand maiden(servant ) of the Lord. Nowhere in scripture does Mary put herself on level with her son. Veneration of Mary is man made tradition NOT a Biblical teaching.

Emporer Constantine officially established the Catholic Church 300 years after the ressurection. After the death of the last Apostles the church quickly slide in apostacy Most of Catholic theology came from Augustine who was a pagan Platonic philospher that his incorporated his pagan ideas into Catholic theology. On the other hand the Ethiopian Orthodox Church(aka Coptic Church) was established just over a year after the resurrection after Phillip baptized the Royal Treasurer of Ethiopia. Therefore the Coptic Church, not the Catholic Church is the oldest church in the world. The Coptic Church developed indendently of the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Church.

What Juggla presents is typical Catholic revisionist history.

Revelation 22:18 Places a curse upon those that try add or subtract from God's word

Juggla says that God talks to the Pope. Did God tell the Pope to murder the Waldenses and Hugenots and countless others? Did God tell the Pope to persecute and murder William Tyndale when Tyndale translated the Bible into English and had it printed so the common folk of England could read it? Did God tell the Pope to persecute Martin Luther and put a price on his head? Did God tell the Pope to murder various reformers like Huss,Tyndale etc... Did God tell the Pope to carry out the Spanish Inquisition? Did God tell Pope Pious XII to sign a concordat with the Nazi's and facist Italians declaring the Catholic Church to the the official state religeon of the two countries? Did God tell Pope Pious XII to declare Adolf Hilter "Defender of the Faith"? Did God tell Pope Pious XII to stand silently by while the Nazis murdered the Jews? The majority of the SS were Catholic.During WWII the countries that were the worse collaborators were the countries that were mostly Catholic. There were a handful Nuns and Priests that did help the Jews but they were the exception and not the rule. Following WWII Pope Pious didn't excommunicate even one single Nazi. The countries that were mostly Protestant or Orthodox did not collaborate with the Nazis in the Holocaust. All this is well documented historical fact taken from credible sources.

Check out Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's book entitled A Moral Reckoning as well as Hitlers Willing Executioners.

"To the Law and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them"

 

england...
the methodists (see: john wesley) were persecuted for not buying into the CoE scene...
CoE is high church (anglican - called "episcopalian" in the usa) & presbyterian is more middle church/decentralised...
check out www.sacred-texts.org & maybe there's some info about how the church went through its various changes in the british isles...

(but the stuff in britain & on the continent were just a sorta warmup for all the craziness in the americas, hehheh...)

 

John Wesly was a pretty cool guy. He was a pacifist and a vegatarian.