Looking for enlightenment

Ok, so I just want to say before I ask my question that I am only asking this to try to gain a better understanding of others religious views. I apologize in advance for offending anyone, because that isn't my intent.

With that said, here is my question:

I'm Catholic. Or rather, I was raised in a Catholic home, by a purely Catholic family, and educated in Catholic schools. I've tried out a lot of other religious services and the like, and have found I'm the most comfortable with Catholicism. I dont really subscribe to a lot of the doctrine, but all the basic stuff, I believe in. So I say I'm Catholic.

What I dont understand is how someone can be a hippie and not have a religious affiliation. At least to me, hippie-ness is a belief in peace and love and a world united under those ideas. Hippies are compassionate, caring, loving people who try to help the people of the world and make the environment the best it can be for everyone. Perhaps it is just my upbringing, but I see God as the reason for all of this. God inspires our hearts to be good and do good. How can one subscribe to those basic ideas of hippie-ness, and not believe in the prescence of a god? Is it the belief in nature and life itself instead?

Please try to explain this to me. I'm trying to gain a perspective on something I dont really understand, and having some problems with it. So anything you might have to say, would be helpful and greatly appreciated.

 

why does someone need a supernatural guardian to be "good"? if your definition of good is to be loving and peaceful, why is it that you think someone needs to believe in a fairy tale in order to act this way? is your only reason to be good in order to impress "god"? would you rather be a thief and a killer? belief in god is not a requirement for one to evolve with a certain kind of attitude.
if you still cant understand something so obvious, then i would recommend reading Nietzsche. Thus Spoke Zarathustra will give you a better understanding of this concept.

 

i think you misunderstood me. which is fine, but I just want to clarify. No, of course I dont think someone has to believe in God to be good. I see enough evidence of that all the time. Its just that for me, it's kind of hard to not see that this "goodness" is inspired or ignited by something else. And for me, that something else is God. I'm sorry if I offended or upset you. I promise that wasn't my intent at all.

 

okay that's a fair question. i honestly don't believe that i need a god to exist for me to be good and spread peace and love. i am not inspired to do these things because i seek a joyful afterlife, i am inspired to spread peace and love to make other people happy. the peace and love belief has made me very happy. i am grateful for the things i have, and the life i live, and i think other people deserve to be happy too. this is why i try to spread the whole peace and love thing.

 

thanks moe-ron10091... i think i get it a little better now.

 

no I did not

does that statement itself not answer your original question?

why? do you feel that you need to be rewarded for every time you give something to someone else? do you see absolutely no reason to be nice if something isnt given to you in return? i can assure you that not everyone shares this kind of attitude

what reason do I have to be offended or upset?

 

How can you be a hippie and not have a religious affiliation?
Here's the secret:

You do have a secret religious affiliation.
But it's not faith in some God or in some messiah,
It's faith in yourself, your own personal goodness,
Your morals and values, your will to be the best you can,
And faith in the strength and intelligence of humanity.
Humanity is already so capable, I'd put my faith in humanity
Much sooner than I'd put it into a being that I can't prove exists.

Also, hippie-ness isn't related to peace, goodness, etc. You could technically be a hippie and be evil (methinks). Being a hippie is about thinking for yourself; about challenging your beliefs (which you seem to be doing ... you might make a good hippie yet! j/k), about respecting everyone and everything as equal, about living in balance. Since peace and harmony and goodwill tend to be a result of these, it's no wonder so many people think of hippies as chill, good-hearted non-believers. =P

One thing hippies hate is when people try to convert them to a religion. Never cross a hippie like that without expecting to be chewed up.
But we're always open for friendly discussion, even about Catholicism and such things. =)

Well, you're on the right track. It is just your upbringing.

I believe in concepts like honour and chivalrie and I choose to live my life to the best quality that I can, without making the lives of other beings any worse. I choose to live my life this way and believe in the ideals that I do, not because of faith in a God, or because I've been touched by the divine.

I believe in them because it makes rational sense to respect everything equally and to believe in such concepts. I believe as I do because that is my own personal choice; I wasn't lead to it by being born into it; in fact, I really, REALLY am not on good terms with my Christian parents, because they're huge hypocrites. But despite that, I try to be as unhypocritical and as nice as possible, because that's how I'd want to be treated by someone else!

God doesn't inspire my heart to be good. I inspire my heart, and people who I have a lot of respect for inspire my heart to be good. =) I want to be a good person back to them to show them that I rock too! =P

Indeed! Look at my signature for example ... "I believe in God ... only I spell it Nature." I really, really like this quote. =) It's basically what I believe in.

To me, I don't mind not knowing if there is a God or not. You know why? I'm a human.

As a human, I make mistakes, I am often wrong, and I don't expect to be any better than the best I can possibly be. I don't expect to know it all or even want to learn it all; I just want to have my life be a good life, and in return, help others have a good life! I don't know what happens when we die, and I don't care, because if there is a next life, I probably won't be a human again, and as a human, I think that the best human I can be is a human that tries his absolute hardest to make this world a kick-ass world! If I succeed, then glory (and eventually riches, maybe ... MAYbe ...) be mine, and if not, then it was beyond my power, because I gave it my best shot, and I'm happy with that. =)

Anyway, I'm done now. =P Peace, balance, and harmony, man! =D

 

hmm well thanks a bunch. it's still something i can't quite understand. but hey... if everything in life made sense, what fun would that be? I guess we're all going to believe different things as far as religious affiliation goes, that's pretty much inevitable. just for the record, i wasn't trying to convert anyone, or bash anything, just tryin to get your folks view. what's important isn't what you believe in, it's what you do. and you're right Hikaru Zero, the beliefs in peace and such, and the unwillingness to conform, and the challenges you put in front of yourself... that's what this whole hippy thing is all about anyway. rock on dude!

 

By the way, I didn't think you were trying to convert anyone, if that's what you may have mistaken me to think by accident. I have more respect for Christians/Catholics/whomevers that don't try to convert people. =)

Personally, one of the reasons that I don't follow Catholicism or Christianity is because I don't like the idea of a God that would send me to Hell just because I don't necessarily believe in him, since there is no proof. I mean, humans lie and make things up; that's inevitable. Whether its our own dumb fault or not, it happens, and you can't trust anything that a human has said (or written) 100%, which means that there is at LEAST some chance that the Bible isn't true, and judging on how there are other holy books like the Quran (sp?), I'm not necessarily willing to bet that any of the books' truths are even probable. The part I don't like, though, is where I can live my life to complete and perfect morality, obey all of the Commandments (save one) and whatnot, and yet, despite any efforts I may make to make the world a better place and despite how morally I live my life, I am still damned to an afterlife in Hell just because God hasn't given me enough proof to believe in him. That's a major part that I don't like, but ... hey, all of you who do believe in him, you don't have to worry about that!

Either way, I have met a few people (like Jatom on the forums here) who have many convincing arguments and are quite capable of defending their faith, and it's because of people like that (including you, freebird) that I can maintain at least some respect for the religion. =P So, kudos.

In my eyes, the "battle" over which religion is right doesn't really have to be a battle; it's the people who try to convert other people (usually in order to "save their soul") that are perpetuating the battle. Otherwise, I have no qualms with anyone from any other religion. =)

 

OK ~ I maybe one of the few "original hippies" hereabouts, so I'll put in my 2c's worth.
Back in the 1960's, things were soooooo different. I mean it was another planet then! Teens were ruled by overzealous parents whose greatest concern was impressing the neighbours by showing off how good their kids were. So we kids grew up living under our parents power, and they forced us to wear the clothes that they chose whenever we went out (think about that a minute!!!)
That meant suits for boys and frilly skirts and bobby socks for girls. It was tryranny I swear! Just check ot pics of pop stars of the early '60's and see how they all looked the model of respectability. Otherwise they couldn't perform.
Well, our generation got jack of it! Our parents lived in the past and wanted us to as well. Sunday church was compulsory for most kids, and bible-bashing hell fire and damnation was the message. So where did the love jesus spoke about fit in there, we (as a generation) asked? All the pop songs were about love, but it was hell fire from mum and dad if they ever found out that you were out there loving in reality!!
The whole paradox was laid bare ~ were we taught on the one hand to love, and on the other that if you did there was gonna be hell to pay! The falsity of convention was so stark that it couldn't be ignored. And the pop culture sang protest songs about it. One of the earliest was Pete Seegers song "LittleBoxes" that blew the whole paradox open. Then Pete was busted for smoking dope. He was with Peter Paul & mary then, and they sang love songs and protest songs. So people began trying things out. Things like love, and protest, and dope, and then it all exploded, and psychadelia was born, bringing with it the free love movement.
And that's what we did . We free'd love from the prison that it had been locked inside of. And god is love, right? So we free'd god from the prison when we free'd love. And love love's, right? So we protested that war was wrong. And the establishment fought back. hard. They brought out the rubber bullets and changed the laws so that anyone who wanted to explore freedom or love could be kicked in the can, and they blamed the use of drugs for the problem, even though it was plain to see that they were the problem. And so it is still.

Love. love for all it's worth. Love all that you can. Love however you can for whatever reason you can. Love is the answer, the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end of our reason for being alive, in this body, at this time, for this one purpose
~ Love.

 

You can believe in God and have your own path, without having any sort of religion interfere with it. Thats the way I do it. I like having the hope and love that comes along with God. Organized religion will be the downfall of man, imo.

But if you want to get enlightened, go somewhere all alone in the woods, or look at a sunset, and reflect. Or listen to some Tool or A Perfect Circle. Find yourself. Dont let anything chain you down, especially religion. I hope that made since, I am not all here right now.

 

Two things:

First, one might be a hippie and believe in a traditional god, albeit not in a traditional way. There are lots of Christian hippies out there, but they do it in their own way. Same probably goes for other religions. Still, there does tend to be an Eastern flavor to hippie spirituality, mainly because it is more accessible as a true, simple spirituality, more so than Western religions tend to be. And you're right, it is an indiviual-type spirituality, but not always entirely so.

Second, hippie-ness is related to peace. That's part of what it's about, man.

 

I think she's saying that unless the goodness is mandated by a god, then it is arbitrary, and she is confused as to how an atheist/nonbeliever might talk about doing good, when they know deep down that it's an arbitrary human distinction.

Me, I say, well, it's either an arbitrary human distinction, or an arbitrary god distinction. Does it make one feel better to know God said, hmm, I'll make this act good and that act bad... and so on down the line? I doubt it. Good is good, what more does one need to know? Doesn't matter where it came from, God or human society or a hole in the ground.

 

The hippy movement has all the characteristics of a new religion. People coming together to share values and an outlook on life. Campbell said that a Grateful Dead concert was close to a religous experience.

 

maybe a historical note:
pete seeger was never with PP&M, mmmmkay?
yarrow, stookey, & travers were those three...

unka pete was with a folk-group in the early 50s (& late 40s? after "the almanac singers", anyways) called "the weavers" - with ronnie gilbert, lee hays, & fred hellerman...
and THAT group ran into trouble in the 50s with HUAC & the senate (tailgunner joe mccarthy) investigations of "pinkos" in the entertainment industry; when pete was subpoenaed, & told that he could take the 5th amendment as regards himself, but MUST answer the questions about the doings of his folkie friends (or be found in contempt of congress) ----- welllll, ol' pete said h'e tell 'em anything about his own life, but refused to "squeal" on his friends...
and suddenly their scheduled gigs were cancelled, no venues seemed to be avaialble anymore for the group, their songs (pretty big hits for the ere: kisses sweeter than wine, rock island line, roll on columbia, winoweh, & quite a few more) were suddenly no longer heard on the radio, etc...
by the early 60s, they could sometimes get gigs (the weavers @ carnegie hall) but the group had gone through some personnel changes over the years (& thus the "reuninon" concerts sometimes had a lot more than 4 people in the quartet, heh...)
unka pete was seen on TV on the old "sesame street" show, and was also on the last season of "the smothers brothers show" (on which he sang the chilling antiwar ditty "waist-deep in the big muddy"... (with prez LBJ implied here: "we're waist deep, neck deep, pretty soon even a tall man will be in up over his head; we're waist deep in the big and the big fool says to push on!"))
(& golly gee, CBS cancelled tommy & dickie's TV show just in time for dick nixon's inaugeration, how about that?)











well, that's it...