Religious Backgrounds

One thing I have noticed in this very enlightening topic is, at least in spirit, we are ALL gay/bi brothers UNITED.

We KNOW what a largely-straight society can throw at us; we KNOW what HURT, ANGER, LONELINESS, and REJECTION feels like....made to feel as though we were the lowest of any life form.

But, guess what......we are ALL equals, and EQUALS to ANY straight man who thinks otherwise!

Regarding a "spiritual" sense of belonging, as I said earlier, make your relationship with "The Big Guy Upstairs" a PERSONAL one, between you both, and ignore any and all slings and arrows fired at you from any and all enemy bigots, be they religious or otherwise.......

 

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Thanks guys for your co operation here

 

Religion ruins sex.

 

I take it thats aim

 

I'll try this again

 

Take it how you want

 

When I was born my father was finishing the last year of Theology school in central Texas to become a Baptist Pastor. He came from a poor family that was a dirt farmer in the Dallas area. They were church people but it wasn't central to their life. My Mother's parents were city people living in East Dallas. My grandmother was a staunch Southern Baptist and Prohibitionist. They lived across the street from their church so it was a major part of their lives.

They had met 4 years earlier in college. My mother was a widow with a 6-year-old son in tow. My dad was pastoring a church during the 2 years he was in the seminary. So almost from the day I was born I was being hauled to a church service and my indoctrination began. Until I was 13 I was expected to go some sort of church service 3 times a week. After my Dad graduated we moved back to where he grew up and was hired by another small country church. We live in this farmhouse several miles away and I remember very little of that time. I do remember when we moved into town when my Dad became unemployed for about a year.

When I was 5 that is where I really began to have recollections. My Dad was hired by a church all the way across the state in west Texas. 50 miles or so from El Paso right on the Mexican border to a town with a population of maybe 150 people in it. It was like we moved to a different country. I went from green trees, lakes, and piney woods to a hot sandy desert and the majority of the inhabitants spoke Spanish. I missed my extended family that we had left behind so one day I told my parents I wanted to go back home. My Mom looked at me and says "This is your home". I think I said something like I didn't like it there and missed my Grandma. I'll never forget her comeback "God sent us here and we have to stay here till he says we need to leave". I guess I didn't get the memo LOL. From then on everything was to be referenced to the church. We lived in the parsonage right next door. I may as well have been living in the church itself. If you did this or didn't do that or you said this or that you were going to hell. As I grew up I was told I was different because I was the preacher's kid and people looked at me differently. That was the truth too and I hated it. This town was so small that everyone knew your business before you did if you know what I mean. It was brutal and all I wanted to be was a regular kid like everyone else and have a normal life (well normal for me that is). As for being Bi, that's a whole different story that goes along with this but I guess I'm not supposed to talk about that here.

So I convinced my parents somehow to send me back to live with my grandparents in the summers after school was out. So for 3 months out of the year, I could be a normal kid and be with my extended family. It was heaven on earth Especially being back on my grandpa's farm. To this day that place was where I was the happiest. My Dad's Mother was my favorite person on earth and I miss her dearly to this day. I know I said my other grandmother was uber-religious. So the way I got around that was I would spend weekends at one of my uncles to get out of going to church. The summers were a great reprieve for me and I hated to see the end of August roll around because I had to return to that other life. I did that till I turned 13. I got a job that summer and had to grow up. At 18 I left home to join the Navy and never looked back

I often pondered how different my life could have been if my Dad hadn't been a man of the cloth. My Dad always said to look forward because you can't go back. Not that my life was all that bad it just wasn't what I wanted and it took me a long time to get the bad taste out of my mouth. I guess I'm still a work in progress there. I'm still not involved in any sort of organized religious entity. The good thing I guess that came out of it is it taught me to respect life. That all lives matter. Always treat people the way you yourself want to be treated and be kind, considerate, and caring. I just couldn't live up to my Mother's expectations. My mother chastised me for that all my life. My dad was a true believer but it was more of a job on top of being a calling. He was very introverted and shy. How he was a pastor? I don't have an answer to that. For a long time, I wouldn't tell people that I met anything about being a preacher's kid. Part of my always wanting a normal life. Did I hate my parents? Not at all. I loved them and miss them every day.

On a side note:
Two years after I left for the Navy the Patriarch of the family that owned and financed that church decided she wanted her grandson to become the pastor (that didn't last long either). Now my dad wrote letters of recommendation to get him into the Seminary and helped with his ordination. She got the membership to vote my dad out and to add insult to injury, he was an elementary school teacher and that old bitty's son-in-law was the head of the school board so he wasn't offered a teaching contract for the next school year. So they had to move and find another job. My parents had planned to retire there, I'm glad they didn't, had purchased a house and remodeled it. So they had the sell a house they never lived in. Now that is hypocrisy and that really left a nasty taste in my craw.
It's been interesting to read all your posts. There are many commonalities there.

 

dd788snipe:

An excellent and most interesting post; thank you for sharing these experiences with us here.

Though Mom (RIP) was a devout Catholic, even she saw that there were many hypocrisies within the Church; Mom also said that this was true with many religions.

She was always fearful of "holy roller/evangalistic types"; she always said that they were "cultists in disguise"; I still share Mom's opinion today.......just the thought of their "fire and brimstone" preaching still scares the bejesus out of me.

As I have related earlier, I have long since abandoned "organized religion".

In Jewish culture, I would be regarded as "The rabbi with the congregation of one", meaning, myself.

I simply think to myself that "The Big Man At The Switch Upstairs" is the ONLY one who is in charge, and, also, that the Bible itself was written by mere, mortal MEN, MEN with mortal weaknesses, and not written by a perfect "Supreme Being".

I truly believe that "The Big Man" would rather see two people of the same sex LOVE and RESPECT each other, than to see two people (of ANY gender) hurting/harming one another.

Anyway, that's how I see things........

 

One can only imagine what inner torment must be going through the heart, soul, and mind of a young gay/bi male, whose dad is "a man of the cloth".

If he is lucky, he will be able, somehow, grow up to be his own man, and live a life of fulfillment and equality.

I once read, long ago, where a young gay male was having relations with the son of a bigoted "preacher man", and felt it was the ultimate "payback".

It HAS to be an uphill battle, to be sure, to remain true and loyal to your parents, while fighting for your own personal values, desires, and lifestyle.......

 

Yes being raised in the Southern Baptist faith I've seen my share if "fire a brimstone preacher. Down right scary. I was blessed with a good aptitude for reading people. My mom didn't understand how I could do that but I could pick out a phoney in a heart beat and there are quite a few of them. The F & B preachers are the highest percentage of them. They mostly traveling preachers because if they stay in one place too long they get exposure. Charlatans pray on small towns. They think there are early fooled simple people there and that just dosen't apply to preachers. Your mother was smart.

 

Thank you Papa.

 

dd788snipe:

Appreciate your complimenting my mother; thank you!

Like so many other young people during the Depression, Mom had to leave school (which she loved) at age 15 to help out at home; that Mom was such an avid reader further accentuated her good, no-nonsense common sense.

Mom never liked....nor trusted.....envangilsts; not only did they frighten her, but she thought that there were too many "satanists in disguise" preaching "the Good Word" to the masses.

Too, she knew there were many hypocrites and phoneys among them.

She remembered well, back in the 1920's as a young girl visiting relatives in Pennsylvania, walking with her cousin along a quiet road when they passed a huge tent with many autos parked near it.

It was a revival meeting, which was in full swing.

Mom said that she and her cousin stopped a moment, and heard the all the "Glory be's" and "Halleulah's!", and, "Yeah, Lord's", and just looked at each other.

Mom's cousin grabbed her hand, and said, "They're scaring me, let's get out of here and go home!"

Mom, of course, went willingly.

I once knew a fellow at work who had been a pretty friendly and "average" guy.....until he became a Born Again Christian.

You couldn't talk about ANY subject without him bringing Jesus into the conversation.

If you said, "I found a great book at the book store", he'd reply" "Well, Jesus must have wanted you to find it."

The older I got, the more I realized just how bigoted and hateful such people could become, if you were NOT of their ilk, even if you politely disagreed with their views.

Needless to say, such people are NOT the kind of people who preach tolerance towards gays and bisexuals.

Recall, years ago, the Jim and Tammy Baker scandals? (Man, she slopped on more rouge than Miss Piggy!)

Jim was a sneaking, lying, sleazy little weasel of a hypocrite, in too many ways to count.

I have also heard that Franklin Graham (son of the late Billy Graham) is even more bigoted and homophobic than his late father ever was (ironically, I always thought that Franklin was quite sexy!)

How one can "preach hatred and intolerance in the name of the Lord" is beyond my comprehension.

To me, it is the ultimate blasphemy.

It's true what Mom always said: "It takes all kinds to make a world".........

 

B. G. was my mom's favorite evangelist. Even took me to see him when I was a kid. Evangelist were the least impressive of preachers especially the ones on TV. IMO and it's just that I think he realized that when B.G. was gone that would be the end of the franchise so he had to pick up the torch and run with it. Like I said JMO. The man could be sincere. Who knows. I've met some that truly were.

 

dd788snipe:

I guess, in the world of evangilists, there are many who MIGHT be simply "putting on act".......who knows for sure?

Perhaps they are enraptured more by the spotlight, big money, and fame, than they are by an actual "calling".

Could at least a few of these preachers be secretly gay or bi, and, by preaching F&B, and, basically, "living a lie", with repressed desires, be attempting to remove any suspicion about them who can REALLY tell what is REALLY going on inside them?

I have read of some real F&B preachers, especially in real rural areas, going so far as handling poisonous snakes in front of the congregation, telling them that if they had faith in the Lord, these snakes could bite them and they would not be harmed.

Being terrified of snakes AND F&B preachers, reading this REALLY freaked me out!

Back in the late 1970's, my family often attended a very small waterfront church (Catholic), near to where they filmed the 1954 classic "On The Waterfront".

The pastor was a small, soft-spoken Irishman, who, unlike many of his "brothers" today, lived humbly and simply.

He lived in a small, old house next door to the church; he mowed the lawn with an old-fashioned "push" mower, and did not own a car.

He mostly took the bus to run his errands, if the weather was especially nice, he'd walk up the hill (using his father's Irish walking stick!) and take the bus back home.

At Christmas and Easter, out of his own pocket, he'd have the church beautifully decorated.

Treated EVERYONE alike, much in the manner of a kindly old uncle.

He was, not surprisingly, much loved by all (everyone also loved the fact that his masses were only 20 minutes long!)

Alas, his one vice (he didn't even drink) was smoking; he sadly left us in 1980, just a few months after I lost my dad to cancer at the same age (73)

His passing left a huge void; the church was never the same after that.......even his replacement said likewise.

This wonderful priest touched us all; NEVER judged others, NEVER preached hypocriscy, NEVER talked down to anyone.

If only more followed in his humble footsteps......

 

papasmurph:

NOT at all surprising that suck a lovely, gracious, and beautiful lady as Jackie would make such a simple....and yet, profound, statement.

Here was a woman of tremendous courage, dignity, and faith who knew how to raise her children in a manner that would make them good adults.

In Dolly Parton's excellent autobio, "DOLLY", she recounts well the "Fire & Brimstone" preachers "up in the hills".

These preachers could (and did) work people into such a religious hysteria that they would begin to gabble gibberish at a rapidfire pace ("the gift of tongues", it was called)

SCARY stuff, to be sure.

When I was in my early years of Catholic grammar school, one of our nuns, a little, soft-spoken angel, told us that: "Jesus is your friend. Talk to him about your family, school, anything you want. He's your friend, and always at your side, ready to listen."

God bless Sr. Catherine!

To those parents today, in 2022, who are trying to bring up their children in a loving, supportive, non-prejudiced manner, I say "God Bless You".

After all, the children of today are the adults of tomorrow; it would be wise to always remember this.

I am now recalling something Mom said years ago: "Many times, people are not who they seem to be".

Recall the actor Stephen Collins, who played the handsome "Reverend Camden" on the TV show, "Seventh Heaven"?

Here was a man playing a "man of the cloth" family man, when, it real life, he was turned on by small girls.

These days, one simply never knows what makes ANYBODY really "tick".

Think about it: One can only image the terror and the fright felt by a young child, exposed to their first "F&B" preacher.

ANY young child would be scared out of their wits (as a senior citizen, it scares the $#^^&@! out of me, just to imagine it)

Getting back to "Miss Dolly", she eventually found her peace in God, in her own way, looking at him as a kind, loving, steadfast friend, instead of a vengeful being ready to hurl lightning bolts and brimstone your way if you sinned in ANY shape or form.

 

I was a tough kid and none of it scared me. My mother didn't understand it. The bullying I received in school hardened me. Not because I was Bi, hell no one knew about that including me in my younger years. It was because I was white believe it or not. Sorry, I'm getting off-topic.