Good Leaves-Bad Leaves

I saw what I am showing here to a similar degree last year, toward the end of my outdoor grow: older and bigger fan leaves beginning to discolor, then wither altogether and then fall off.
These pics are of my Sugar Shack, almost 5 wks into flowering. Pic 1 healthy cola, nice, deep green leaves all around the flowering structures. Pic 2 the same but a bigger,lower leave shows yellowing. Pic 3 gives that same yellowing but over the entire leaf of one of the bigger fan leaves and pic 4 shows the entire plant with the entire lower structure yellowing going on.
To be shure as to conditions: nutrient is foxfarms tiger bloom and following label directions. Watering is maybe a little sparse but never to the point of visible effects on the leaves, such as leave curl. Heat and distance from lights well regulated. And again, seeing the same thing indoors as I saw outdoors leads me to ask: is this a natural phenom where the plant is shedding leave it used for building size and structure and concentrating on the flower structure only? Will be very interested in getting comments from you experienced/expert growers out there. b1

 

Most strains will begin losing leaves to a degree in the latter part of flower,beginning with the lower leaves first.The reason for this is that N,P,K,Mg,Mo,and Zn are whats considered mobile elements;meaning they are the nutrients that if plant is deficient it will borrow from another part of the plant to get it as to keep the new growth happy and this is borrowed from the older/lower leaves(reason for your dis-colored leaves that started at the bottom of your plant).You need to check your soil ph as to hi/lo can lock out nutes causing this prematurily.

 

thanks MG, beginning to make sense now that I reflect on how i've run this grow. i see more problems from overwatering then from underwatering, consequently i underwater and, as human nature goes, make it a veritable desert for them at times. And, as I water primarily from the bottom and not been adding much fert at all during the first 2/3 of the total growth, have been depriving nutients by that FAULTY mechanism. The ph was right on 7 about 3 days ago. Is that considered 'optimal'? Appreciate the support. b1

 

Ph should be maintained between 6.2-6.8.A Ph of 7 could cause deficiencies.Here is a good link to allow ya to get a better understanding of diagnosing nutrient toxicity/deficiency.
http://landresources.montana.edu/NutrientManagement/Modules/Module9.pdf

 

B1 your problem is obvious, might be late to correct damage but new growth should flourish. here's the rap

tigerbloom is an additive enhancer for budding it is not intended for a complete blooming formula- it is additive trace elements but not enough N/P/K to set your buds.
get the foxfarm bigbloom formula and growbig.
and the soil feeding schedule from foxfarm.
FOR EXAMPLE
first week seedlings get bigbloom
second week seedlings get bigbloom and growbig
third week growbig and tigerbloom, ect.

most of the veg weeks combine growbig and tigerbloom
bigbloom and tigerbloom during bud stage.

i tried the same thing last year- just tigerbloom- not real good results either.

bigbloom has them rockin now

ALSO on the bigbloom bottle it reccomends half cup per gallon for first feeding
this will not burn your plants, but it will explode them.
try it you wont be sorry.
tiedye

 

hey tie, just a little slow in checking the site and responding to the replies! too much work, cows getting a little thin so gotta spend time getting supplemental feed and feeding it out. and all the spring work starting up right now as well.
Thanks for analysing my bad leaves problem. Have ordered fox farms big bloom and will have it here in a couple more days.
This feeding schedule you suggest, you call it "the soil feeding schedule from fox farms" . Where do they publish that, or how did you get their schedule. Would you mind sharing that? I'll follow it right along on the strength of your saying so. Thanks a bunch. b1

 

it comes from foxfarm
the bottle you will get has different directions
half cup per gallon on first feed
4 tbs every watering afterwards.
those directions seem to be mostly for cannabis .
follow those for bigbloom.
here is the scedule- I mostly use it for the beginning stages
and continue to use growbig through preflower via the schedule.
then after preflower growth spurt i switch to 1/2 cup- and the bottle directions for bigbloom. You kinda have to improvise the weeks a bit.
my cycles are 12-16 weeks not ten. adjust accordingly to your cycle length.
this time hit em with the bigbloom like the bottle says- 1/2 cup per gallon
it wont burn em, it is guano and castings.
WEEK ONE : 2 tbs bigbloom {30 ml} per gallon of water
WEEK TWO : 2tsp {10 ml} growbig per gallon + 1 tbs {15 ml} bigbloom
WEEK THREE : 3 tsp{15 ml} growbig per gallon
WEEK FOUR : 3 tsp {15 ml} growbig per gallon
FOXFarm does not say this but continue this during veg stage- if you are vegging 8 weeks continue to use growbig 8 weeks.
budstage:
WEEK FIVE: 2tsp {10 ml} tigerbloom + 1tbs {15 ml} bigbloom per gallon water.
WEEK SIX : 2 tsp tigerbloom + 1 tbs bigbloom
WEEK SEVEN :2 tsp tigerbloom + 1 tbs bigbloom
WEEK EIGHT : 2 tsp growbig + 1 tbs bigbloom
WEEK NINE : 2 tsp tigerbloom + 1 tbs bigbloom
WEEK TEN 2 tsp tigerbloom + 1 tbs bigbloom

 

Fox farms ferts are now in my trash,I continue to use Earth Juice as plants do alot better with it!!IE:Taste,smell,and yield.I tested the same strain with both one cycle and the earth juice 's out come smoked the FF!A little tid bit!!!!!!!!!

Not ta say FF sucks but just not nearly as effectivfor whats sought!!

 

yeah this im sure will hold true
but if he was using tigerbloom only ,then that was his problem.
he needs the bigbloom and growbig if he is using foxfarm products.
And i didnt get that good of results until i blasted them with 1/2 cup per gallon.
kinda weak actually.if you can use that much in one feeding.
I also use high phosphorus bat guano during bud
and homeade wormcastings with high nitrogen guano during veg.
marine cuisine is good as well.
i am however looking for a longer term soil
use the foxfarm for sprouts
and upcan to something hotter when they get to growbags.
the hydrostore has one but im not sure what it is.
a dark brown bag is about all i can recall.

i used up a quart on this cycle, come to think of it.
the results were great but if i can find something better and stronger im probly going to switch up my nutes eventually.
I just bought a gallon of bigbloom though.
so i figure 4 cycles and i'll be needing all the different types.
the quarts of tigerbloom and growbig should last to the end of summer.
foxfarm is nice because you really dont need a ph meter if you stick with their products, im getting by without one just fine.
but i'll be sure to grab a meter before i switch nutes again.

 

Meangreen, now that I'm invested in FF I'll go with that until used up, . Does earthjuice have two separate formulas, like for veg & flower as well? and what, if you don't mind MG, are they called.
Tiedye, thanks so much for the elaboration. I would want to follow your schedule but I can, for the world of me, not separate the veg instructions from the flower instructions in your schedule.
You say that you use GrowBig during veg. You are NOT giving a schedule or amounts for this period so to see, right?? I have done the veg for 8wks and plan to harvest after 10 wks of flowering.
So then we go to flower, which according to FF lasts 10 weeks but you go longer, like 12-16wks right?
And the WEEK ONE thru WEEK TEN schedule you gave applies to the flowering stage, right? And that schedule starts with the 1/2 cup, right?
I guess the sentence between WEEK FOUR and WEEK FIVE> FOXFarm does not say this but continue this during veg stage- if you are vegging 8 weeks continue to use growbig 8 week< confuses me and makes it difficult to figure out whether we are talking about the veg or the bloom stage. Hope I'm not a pest with this but would like to get it right. Thanx. b1

 

-Damn B1! -I wish I knew how to help ya with yer nute issues but I can tell ya this, -your Sugar Shack will only flower for 45 days, after that your results will start to diminish. -You might have underfed them in the flower stage Brudda. -I think these plants feed heavy durring flower, might be because of theyr short 45 day flower time. -Kinda like they gotta hog it up in order to finish fat in that short of time or somethin. -In flower, they realy love to eat and they love theyr lights.

 

Fox farms is a good fert regime,but as I suspected they are not OMRI certified which all manufactorers of 100% organic ferts strive to achieve!This leads me to believe they are not 100% organic as they claim.Earth juice offers Gro,Bloom,Meta-K,Microblast,Catalyst that all can be combined together for specific plant needs!EJ also has a full line of individual micronutrients that can be custom mixed to siute any need.Here is a good link for EJ products and 100% OMRI certified.I have placed a link in the organic thread which lists all OMRI certified product,no Fox Farms in the list,makes ya think!

http://www.greenfire.net/hot/ALLJ.html

 

MG: great info to build on my expanding knowledge of these things. Will copy the link and further my fert methodology in that direction. I was dwelling in Greenmans Pages (are you familiar with that site?) and came across the following info>>The autumn sun produces more red light, because the autumn sun is lower in the sky.That doesn't mean that you must now use only the sodium lamps. With only red light, the plants lose their vegetative leaves (they turn yellow and fall off easily), while the stem of the plant is lengthened<< and see now reasons in addition to the one you gave for the leaf yellowing. Initially I had HPS as the only lights in my flower room and since then have added the same number of MH and have upped the fert schedule as suggested and the further yellowing has stopped, bud formation is vigorous and, most importantly, the newly added plants to the flower room show none of the problems of the first one (the SugarShack).

LuMpY: thanks for the concern but judge from the pics for yourself: only a temporary setback/problem which has been corrected and does not seem to have repeated itself. Pic one is SS now, still showing those yellow tips. (I guess they don't revert after the fact) and pic two is from an Amstel GoldxBlack Seed which was added to the flowering room after the corrections.b1

 

Down with the schedule.
that is for seed to finish.
you are almost finished.
Use the bottle directions that tell you 1/2 cup per gallon for the first feeding.
then two tablespoons per gallon every time you water.

I am tripping out
today I opened a jug of bigbloom- one gallon size.
It was kind of a darkish brown color.
I was refilling the quart bottle, which I just got done using the last 1/2 cup of.
It was a reddish brown.
YES i shook them both up like a madman.
Foxfarm is now on my inconsistent list.
I will no longer be buying foxfarm liquid ferts.
And may discontinue using marine cuisine and ocean/forest
as well.
meangreen got me thinking.
I also saw foxfarm on a list of fertilizers with high mineral counts.
Minerals like lead and mercury.
dangerous chemicals.
For the life of me I cannot recall the list name.
maybe someone else here remembers.
seemed to me that foxfarm was high in mercury
probably the same reason nobody buys fish anymore- too much mercury can kill you.
how much of this can get into the system by smoking bud im sure is very minimal.
If I were growing tomatoes however I would be much more leery.
But then meangreen cannot find them on a list of organic ferts, wonder why. ORGANIc based," best of technology and organics" as they say.Too high of mineral concentrates- dangerous ones {IMM GONNA SURF A MINUTE SEE WHAT I CAN FIND}
foxfarm is batting two strikes in my book three with the color changing bigbloom.
Im so ripped, I been working on the growroom for three or four days now.
Finished the new veg area. 2 w x 4.6 l x 5 h. the 154 cfm fans exhaust and intake this area . The canfilter and eliecent exhaust the 6x6x7 budroom, and the overhead intake goes from 500 to 900 cfm.
this intake fan, will be switched for an a/c unit if need be.
my seedlings are sexing so they went into 18/6 today.
82 in the budroom and 84 in the vegroom were todays highs.
im pretty stoked
and I harvested 6 plants today.
Im really stoked
I got the kush curing slowly
It's so nice, sticky gnarly nugs.
I love the LN kush
and the stone is trippy as hell.
I like that a lot too.
Im gonna bust up a chunk before bed i think.
i BEEN WORKING HARD.
oops on the caps but it lookes good so it can ride
i been working haard though
and i gotta get back to the deck tomorrow.
Knowing my new grow areas are doing just fine.

 

--Is it done yet? ! -You gonna LOVE that Sugar Shack! --Im willin to bet it becomes your new favorite! -Fukkin DELICIOUS!!! -They outta make a CANDY outta this shit. -Nothin tastes like this or gets you as high! --Oh yea..... -They put on the bulk of theyr weight in the last week or so, -somma your calyxes will swell up bigger than peas and open up. -The calyx get so big on these that you can pick them off like grapes. -Im smokkin some now ! -Its the rule.

 

Tiedye: bigbloom came today, followed the 1/2 cup start directions and watched them glow, then i set them out in the sun. Can you believe?

I am sensitive to MG's analysis of this product and will take it in with all other considerations. Now, to enhance all physical parameters I began some co2 supplementation a few days ago. I worked around the complexities of the vinegar dripping into a bowl of baking soda and then I checked out some co2 generators on google and then it hit me: i HAD TWO OF THEM RIGHT HERE. This is a very mosquito infested area of the world and there is a company called " american biophysics" that makes a product that is called "the mosquito magnet" and it works on the principle that mosquito's recoignize warmblooded animals (like humans as well) by the co2 exhale stream coming from their respiration>>breathing!!. So these machines hook to a 40lb propane tank and are plugged in and produce a constant stream of co2 + a little water vapor/drippings and some heat. and the mosquis attrct to it, get sucked in by a little fan and die a dessicated deathn a netcontainer device.
So I placed one of those babies in with my sugarshacks and the rest and they have been responding!! Interesting to see is that, when I forgot to turn it off one night after the lights had gone out, when finally realizing it I saw a significant drooping of all the leaves on all plants, indicating to me that some sort of toxit effect had taken place. I brought in fresh air and the next morning it all looked good again. Tells me that the stomata are open during light and are able to inhale the co2 and they close in the dark so the co2 rises when not used by the plant. 'mmmmmmmm need to get a co2 meter.
These machines cost around $350.00 about the same as the co2 generators I found for just the single purpose. Oh yeah, by the way, these mosquito magnets are more effective then anything else you could ever want to try, like chemical fogs orn sprays or whatever.
these sugar shacks were put under 12 hrs. 7wks ago today. took them about two weeks to really show good flower everywhere. So it's been "in flower" for 5 wks. How many more weeks before I harvest would y'all think LuMpY??
Planning to post a pic tomorrow so you can see where she's at.b1

 

foxfarm bigbloom works beautifully,
Im having trouble with shelling out 32 bucks a gallon for something you could practically pour directly on the plant.
1/2 cup seems like an insane amount to use.
but they will explode.
yes they will.

 

hey tie: looking at the label of big bloom, you see that the percentages of NPK are in the one tenth of one percent to one hundredth of one percent range whereas the tiger bloom and grow big are in the whole pecent range. E.G. Big Bloom N=0.01%, P=0.3%, Tiger Bloom N=2%, P=8% and Grow Big has N=6% and P=4%
That tells you that your gallon of Big Bloom is 99%+ water and you pay a hefty price for that to be shipped to you as well. Since BB is 100% organic and derived from the very best organic sources it will give you plant nutrients that can be absorbed and utilized by the plants with grater ease and utility then almost any chemical source. So it is the stuff to use. But obviously the thing to do is to purchase your bat guano and other organic starting materials in the dry form and mix it up yourself. And that's what I am going to do myself hereafter. MeanGreen gave me the link to a source for such starting materials and I am going to follow up on that. Here it is: http://www.greenfire.net/hot/ALLJ.html
Will post pictures as soon as I can.
Thanks for sticking with this subject. b1

 

these sugar shacks were put under 12 hrs. 8wks ago. It took them about two weeks to really show good flower everywhere. So it's been "in flower" for 6 wks. How many more weeks before I harvest would y'all think? b1

 

--Damn Bro... -Im sorry to see how the SS is goin. -I think ya mighta messed up your light cycle or something cause mine show flower clear in as little as 6 days mostly, sometimes 9 days. -I dont think you can make up for nute deficencies by lettenim flower longer and expect them to do theyr best but just lettem flower till the triches look rite! --It looks like you had light leak/cycle issues as well as nute issues.