Strip Clubs...

I do believe it objectifies women...but I also know it's the only way to make enough money for some women. Which also bothers me a bit. It's basically the only high paying job for a non-college educated woman...and don't say oh they should go to college then, cause it's not that simple...I don't care what you say it's not that simple.

And it isn't always insecurity, I was just saying so what if it is? You can't just toss away insecurity, um, or else nobody would be insecure. Sometimes it takes awhile of your husband (or whatever) not acting like he wants to fuck everything else that moves for you to lose your insecurity. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to choose a spouse that respects your feelings..that seems to be the universal truth here, be picky about who you end up with. lol

 

My post wasn't directed at you. (if you thought it was)It was directed toward anyone who thinks that if a women doesn't like a strip club it automatically must mean she is insecure with herself. (a post by beans I think)

I already said I don't judge women who choose to strip. My best friend a few years ago was 26 and could't afford college. She was a stripper. I could care less if a women chooses to do that than more power to her. But I personally do not like strip clubs for the reasons I mentioned and wouldn't date a guy who did.

Oh and I def agree with you about what you said about so what if it is insecurity.

 

I see all the fat chicks here are posting and saying, "it's not an insecurity issue!"
Yeah right. Whatever you say chicky-poos!

 

Ugh, is there anything that can be done about this troll?

 

Read my prior posts, bitch. I make a valid argument so fuck off.

 

lol...oh honey i read your prior posts. not much contribution if you ask me, and hardly anything "valid".

and then, just personal attacks....good job

 

Again, please, fuck off. Congrats! You have made it to my ignore list! Ga day!

Love, Bogs

 

I dont really cear. Your not aloud to touch so whats the prob? and I live in a small town in New Zealand so I know a few of the stripers and they tell me that 3/4 of the girls are lez or have b/f's - so thats just another reson for me not to cear. I would really like to go one day to see what its like, and my b/f said he would take me. Though my b/f has only been to a strip club once or twice and that was befor we were going out. He dosnt see what the big deal is with them.

 

Ok so I'm confused on this insecurity topic. Perhaps some of you could clarifiy your stance. If your man is in love with you and is getting everything he needs at home (in which ever way you want to interpret that) then why would he still need to go outside of the home and look elsewhere for something that his girlfriend/wife can easily give him. Using the strip club as an analogy: I strip for Jeremy pretty much every week, sometimes more depending on how often we have the house to ourselves (we like the stereo in the living room!) So maybe some men can help me understand this better. And I do realize that there are some people who just aren't cut out for monogamy, that is completely understandable. I don't believe that everyone should be monogomous, I personally prefer it, but others don't have to.

This can also be on an emotional level, not just about strip clubs. But what if your partner was having an "emotional affair" with someone else. Telling someone else his secrets and desires and ideas and problems, but not sharing with you. It cuts in on your intimacy as a couple, and that is one of the most important things you have between the two of you.

And sure I can see how it would make someone feel insecure, but perhaps with their relationship not with themselves/their looks. It would make me feel like something is lacking in my relationship, but it would never make me think that I'm unattractive.

And as others have pointed out, so what if it does make one insecure? Usually insecurity stems from something much deeper and can go all the way back to childhood. And I know plenty of men who are much more insecure than their girlfriends. The type who call them all of the time and ask where they are and who they are with and are pretty much stuck up one's ass. Hell I was married to someone like that. And all of my friend's relationships are like that at this point. It isn't the girls standing around saying "is she prettier than me?" Its the men wondering if they are good enough.

I suppose the best for everyone would be to discuss things like this in the beginning of a relationship before you have these situations to deal with. I would most certainly date someone who doesn't agree with me on things, I mean Jer and I have different beliefs on a lot of things. But if this is something that is a "deal breaker" for you, and you find someone who loves strip clubs, you won't change them and they won't change you, so it would be best if you just moved on to someone who is more like yourself. I mean I have nothing personally against strip clubs, they are what they are and they are fine for single people to visit or whatever you do there, but if you are in a relationship, it is a different story.

 

Quote cute lildeadbear- "Ok so I'm confused on this insecurity topic. Perhaps some of you could clarifiy your stance. If your man is in love with you and is getting everything he needs at home (in which ever way you want to interpret that) then why would he still need to go outside of the home and look elsewhere for something that his girlfriend/wife can easily give him."
___________

The last thing I meant to do is defend guys who feel the need to go to strip clubs all the time but have loving sexually pleasing women at home. I just feel women should not get upset about their man going to a strip club once in a great while with some friends to cut up a bit.
In realilty, I don't believe any one women can give a man everything he needs to be mentally and emotionally healthy. And though I do believe men can be monogomists and still be emotionally healthy, monogomy is not in man's nature.
The natures of men and women are different. Period.
For a man to over ride his true nature and choose to be a monogomist, he must be either -
pre-programed in his upbringing to feel wrong about "cheating" or even thinking about it thus killing part of the spirit that makes him a man,
-or, allow his true spirit to be killed slowly by trying to bend to the feelings of his women out of fear of loosing her or hearing her bitch for all eternity,
-or, he may choose by free will to be true to his women, and keep his ally cat nature in spirit only, not action. Because if a man has a sex drive and he's straight, he will naturally desire many other women no matter how much he loves his one true love.
Few men are brave enough to admit this to their women, who naturally don't understand because they are different. They are more able to be content if they feel strong love for one man.
It's simple biology. The primary porpose for sex is procreation. Lifes desire to expand and multiply. For the female primate, that is best served by finding the best male species and provider (preferably in the same male) they can find and reproducing with them. They (usually) can only get pregnant by one male at a time and can only do it about once a year. So, they are geared to focus on one male and to keep his interest focused on her as much as possible.
Males, on the other hand can reproduce several times a day, everyday, for over 50 years. And part of our genetic make up tells us to do that. Male sex drives increase when they feel successful. It decreases when they feel they're loosing.
Some women say that if that's true, men really do suck. But think about it. I see married women all the time "fall out of love" with their men. At one time they thought they would never consider sex with anyone else because they were so much in love.
But time passes, then they start to find themselve interested in someone else. Next thing they're saying, "sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you, but my feelings have changed".
Thing is, that's natural too. Women have a different cycle. It is normal for women to eventually have desire for another. The problem is they didn't expect it.
When a man says, that he will love you forever (and means it) he understands that in loving you he will still be tempted with others but intends to remain true to you anyway. When a women says it, she usually means it too but mostly because she doesn't feel any outside temptation and can't imagine ever having it.
That is why, now in the free society we are in, more break ups are from the women leaving the man. Men are more willing to make the relationship work in spite of his natural instinct. (True, many times women leave men because of the mans cheating).
As for strip clubs. Married guys that may go to one now and then are usually the type that wouldn't cheat on their women. They just want a harmless night of letting the inner primate (monkey) play without cheating on the one they love. The guys that do intend to cheat are at the regular bars talking to the girls who are starting to have different feelings about the man they thought they loved so much, but lately........

 

My boyfriend took me to my first strip club for my 18th Birthday... Very awesome! I'm bi and neither of us are jealous at all, so we have fun checking out ladies together and such... Before i turned 18 though he'd go without me and i was cool with it. Who am i to dicate what he does? (We've been together for little over 5 years and have been living together for little over a year)

 

Beans has been banned. Thank heavens. Please carry on with the converstation........

I appreciate the rest of y'all who are capable of carrying on this volitile subject with maturity and stuff.

Totally uncalled for. There are a LOT of parents on this site. I wouldn't raise their ire........It was FAR from a guidline problem, but just not nice......

 

freakwentflyer,

I can appreciate your honesty on this topic. I still find it a bit painful and sad. I've had many conversations with dh about the differences between men and women and we both agree that it sucks at times. My hubby doesn't go to strip clubs but he has always enjoyed magazines,movies etc.

It does make me feel insecure, I admit that. I've birthed 3 kids and am 35 years old. I don't look like a 20 year old stripper. And I don't really want to at this point in my life. Frankly, I'm just too busy and too tired to care all that much. My dh says he is completely happy with the way that I am and that seeing models/strippers/whatever doesn't have any affect on how he feels about me. But it does affect how I feel about myself. It makes me want to hide my body. Everytime he looks at me I see myself being compared to 20 years and thousands of images of so called perfect women. He always tells me how perfect I am, but how can I believe it?

Of course once you have a daughter who is preteen/teen aged it adds a whole new dimension. Fathers have to face the fact that men are going to be looking at their babies in the same way they look at other women and that is a bitter pill for many men.

Makes me sad for my children

Kathy

 

I don't buy the "men are more visual" excuse. How come they never notice when you get a new hairdo, or haircut, or use some new makeup, or have a limb removed ( ) Many have an inability to see DIRT or footprints, or poop tracks in the potty or their pants. How can they be VISUAL creatures. (I do NOT mean ALL men, just the ones I know.)

 

Hey Krafty and Maggie,
lol Maggie- you sure got me pegged. I stand corrected. Women ARE much more observant. The other day, my daughter (just turned 4), when I was picking her up from school notice I had a different set of car keys in my hand. I had barrowed my friends truck to pick her up because I had to us it for something else afterword. She said, "where'd you get those, those are Larry's keys." I was shocked because neither Larry or I have anything on our key rings but keys.
When I say visual, I mean men are more motivated sexually by sight. Women are more complex. Men make the porn industry billions, they'd go broke if they had to only rely on women. Women require more than naked hot flesh. They want words, music, song, success, social stature, and all meanings of the word strength.
I know what you're saying Kathy-
Men should be sensitive of their womens self image and not make her feel bad about herself. Right now my wife is getting bigger by the day being pregnant with twins. And I'm being truthful when I say I think it's beautiful. I know her body will change and age. And if we are both worthy of one anothers love, we will always find one another beautiful. My wife is pretty secure in herself, and it never bothers her that I notice pretty women. I guess I give her enough assurance.

But, about feeling "compared to perfect women", men have to deal with feelings of not measuring up all the time. We aren't so concerned with pretty men, but what can make us feel small is when our bank accounts, accomplishments, or intellect is lacking compared to another mans that their women seems to admire. We may not show it like women do, but men can really feel that kind of thing. Alot of men hate their women working because of "bosses".
If your husband says, you're beautiful, then believe him. What good can become of not believing. Not believing him will drive you AND him nuts and end up driving you apart. Don't worry if he finds some other women attractive. He will anyway. And truthfully, there will always be people better than us so give the old ego a rest and stop worrying about it. You being confident in yourself will make him even more relaxed and in love with you.
Let's say you met and got a job working with Johnny Depp. Would you leave your man for him if Johnny asked you too? No? Well what if your man constantly freaked out about your friend/co-worker and didn't trust you? I think your chances of leaving for Johnny would go up.
I use Johnny because he's my wife's favorite fantisy. I myself don't have ONE favorite. Most of mine don't even have names.

 

"In realilty, I don't believe any one women can give a man everything he needs to be mentally and emotionally healthy. And though I do believe men can be monogomists and still be emotionally healthy, monogomy is not in man's nature."

See, this is what is bothering me about your posts. I'M MORE LIKELY to have an affair than my husband is! When we got together I had slept with more people than Chris had, cause he was more picky than me!! I'm the one in my relationship who has the problem with monogamy. I cheated on just about every boyfriend I ever had before Chris. It's about all people being different, not men being a certain way and women being a certain way. I really fucking hate gender boxes! How can you sit here and talk about people putting themselves in boxes when you are trying to put all people in gender boxes? I was the one who almost had an affair going out with my friends to flirt and stuff. I actually DID have an emotional affair...I'm not proud of it at all but I have to make the point. I decided I needed to not get myself into those situations anymore because I choose to be commited to my husband. What's wrong with deciding you'd rather have a companion/best friend rather than random sex partners? Yea sometimes you have to make sacrifices, but it's worth it if you actually love the person and want them to be around for the rest of your life. For me, my Chris is more important than a so called "good time", and funnily enough, we have a good time together, so actually it really doesn't matter what anyone says about "guy's nature" as if they know how everyone's mind works.

 

He can go if I am with him.

 

Maggie, ROFLOL! Yep, so true!

freakwentflyer - usually i'm not so insecure but i'm still fairly recently postpartum, our newest baby is 4 moths old. i'll get back to being a more confidant person someday, lol!

congratulations! twins! that must be sooo exciting! big sis must be looking forward to the babies. good luck to you and your family!

kathy

 

Those will be two lucky babies. I am a twin, and so greatful to be one! I always have had a friend, I always had someone to play with, and I always had someone to share homework with too...of course I had to share a car as well, and that wasn't as fun. But watch out, 2x's the trouble and all!

Congratulations, you are lucky parents!

 

Krafty Kathy: I'm hoping that you do get over your insecurity that you are feeling right now. I know it is hard to feel that way, hell it took me like 20 years. Just remember that you have qualities that no one else has. I imagine by your username that you are pretty crafty, maybe there is a stripper out there with 3 kids who is sitting home right now, wishing she could get out of the industry and be creative and crafty with her children. I know how hard it is not to compare ourselves to others, but just remember that you really do have something special.

Maggie, I agree with the men are not necessarily more visual. I love to look at naked women just as much as Jeremy does, and love scenes and everything else. I just feel that it is completely differnet to look at porn, than it is to have a woman giving you a lap dance. And yes I do know that there are supposed rules for these dances but I'm not naive enough to believe that every club/stripper abides by the "rules". Just so everyone understands, I don't think that women should go see male strippers either. Unless you are completely single like I stated. Then no one else can get hurt in the situation.

Freakwentflyer: I definitely agree that men have some insecurities as well. And acting like a psycho from either party, will not help. Forbidding someone from doing something will not either. That is why I suggested people discuss it upfront, that way there will be no surprises if the issue is raised. And if he had a hot co-worker, that is completely different from seeing a stripper. Unless his co-workers are getting naked at work and shakin their boobies in his face. No, I wouldn't be jealous of a pretty co-worker, Jeremy has many many attractive female clients. But the fact remains that I trust him. And to set the record straight, yes, if Jonny Depp asked me to leave Jeremy, I probably would. That is far less likely to happen than a man finding someone at a strip club who asks him to pay for sex (because that happens very often), and it is less likely to happen than a man "falling for" a stripper (which also happens quite often). By the same token, I'd have to consider whether or not Jonny Depp is as intelligent and as funny as Jeremy, and if he "gets me" because that is more important to me than how hot he is (and boy is he hot! hehehe).

But I just don't see why one would want to put yourself in a situation that is so tempting. I mean would you take an alcoholic to a bar? I mean if everyone here is saying that men can't control themselves or it isn't in their nature to be monogomous then we should expect for them to cheat each time they go out. How does that make for a healthy relationship. I think that some men are quite monogomous and some people in general are not. No wonder people are insecure about their relationships.

StarFaerie: I'm with you. I'm definitely more likely to cheat than my boyfriend. But he trusts me and I trust him. So far it hasn't been an issue in 4 years. That is because we love each other and we do not want to hurt each other. I too cheated on my ex. I didn't love him, and frankly I didn't care if he was hurt or not. That is the difference. I'm not proud of it, but it is the truth so I have to admit it to myself. I know Jer well enough to know that he would not go out and cheat on me on purpose.

And to clarify what I meant, I don't mean that it is our duty as a woman to keep our husband/boyfriend completely satisfied at home mentally, emotionally or physically. What I meant was if he could have you someone he loves and cherishes strip for him, why would he want a complete stranger that he knows nothing about getting naked in front of him. I was exploring the intimacy issue, not the sexuality issue. That is why I said interpret it however you like. Just like if your man felt like he could never talk to you about things because you always yelled at him or blamed him, well eventually I imagine, he would find someone he could talk to, it might be another woman, it might be his parents or a friend. Either way it takes away from the intimacy of your relationship because there should be a level that two people reach together that no one else is "in on".