Wealth Taxation, Goverment and Corporations

Discussion in 'Democracy' started by Piney, Jan 10, 2024.

  1. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    .................................................................................................................

    No. .....but capping the federal deduction for Real Estate taxes at $10,000 was a good thing. ( in 2017)

    Thinking that deductions for contributions to politics should be capped also. and charitable donations also.

    This was posted to counteract statements that The Rich pay No tax at all.

    If I own a Mickey Mantle baseball card that is worth One Million do I owe that tax even though the baseball card came in a pack of gum I bought for 10 cents back in 1960? Suppose we get a recession and then the baseball card is only worth, say: $800,000.00
    what happened to the potential tax pain on the million dollar valuation? during a good market?

    Taxing Un-realised capital gains is problematic because estimated valuations are subject to change.
     
  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Unrealized capital gains are wealth that has been "banked" by holding onto an increase in value, without cashing in on that increase.

    So if you have a Mickey Mantle baseball card that is worth one million dollars, your estate is worth that one million dollars plus anything else you may have.
    If you paid one million dollars for the card in a taxable year you would owe no taxes on the value of that card. However, if you paid one dollar for that card and then in the same year the card is found to be worth one million dollars, and you don't sell it in that taxable year you would have an unrealized tax value of $999,999 dollars and you would owe taxes on that amount, which would be about 20% I think.
    Now if you decide to sell that card in the next taxable year, and it's still worth one million dollars you would owe no taxes on that sell, as you already paid them. Without an unrealized capital gains tax you would pay the 20% when the card was sold.
    So all the unrealized capital gains does is to tax you before you sell the card.
    If the card is worth more than the one million you paid for it, at the point of sell, you only pay taxes on the increase in value, not on the original value, which you already paid.
    If the card losses value you report a loss.

    The wealthy hate an unrealized capital gains tax because it means they can't hide their wealth in stocks, etc.
    When these stocks, etc. are inherited their current value is "stepped up" to the present existing value which means that no capital gains are recognized and thus no taxes are due.
    Further the ultra rich don't take pay checks...and they brag about it.
    So while Tim Cook of Apple only gets a measly $3 million a year in salary which is taxable, he also receives $63 million a year in stocks, which aren't taxable.

    So if you take your yearly salary in million dollar Mickey Mantle baseball cards instead of a salary or hourly wage you pay no taxes but can still use those unrealized capital gains to take out loans, do business transactions, and live a very comfortable life.
    So is it fair that the working man or woman has to pay taxes on his or her wages, while the rich don't?
     
  3. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    If one is paid a compensation, in stock, by ones employer, I can see taxing that as income in that given year, but not taxing gains forever.
    It used to be that when you borrowed against your stocks that the interest cost of that loan was a write off, no more

    My baseball card was paid in cash. when I sell it, I can see paying a tax then. A "gain on sale".

    Homeowners are reaping huge "paper gains" on their real estate. Taxing the "paper gains" is a no-go at election time. Taxing gains on a 401-K account is a disincentive to save.

    Would love to hear about the write-offs wealthy people take for donations. Donations made to specificly reduce ones taxes.
     
  4. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Gains can only be taxed "forever" if they gain forever. You aren't taxed for the same gain twice.

    The problem is some people invest in baseball cards and never pay taxes on the gain ever, as they pass them on to their heirs who then step them up.

    401K plans are only taxed when the money is withdrawn. If you withdraw it before are 59 1/2 you incur a penalty for the withdraw pus the tax. and it can't be withdrawn until age
     
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  5. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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  6. granite45

    granite45 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    This is an appropriate day to remember the gratitude we owe organized labor for the work and sacrifices unions have done that benefit us all. I grew up in Oshkosh,WI, a city that has had a long history of wood related manufacturing; what is not so well known is the exploitive working environment of low wages, child labor, horrible hours, and lack of safety that were part of the industry.

    The factories were owned by handful ultra wealthy families who resisted any attempts to improve the life of the workers, many of who had immigrated from Europe in search of freedom and opportunity. Many of my older relatives were missing digits limbs from the work in the mills…and the minimum wage was $1 per hour. It was the prevailing wage when I worked in a sash and door factory.

    For a true picture of the story, find a copy of:
    The Oshkosh Woodworker’s Strike of 1898 by Virginia Glenn Crane, Wisconsin Sequicentennial, 1998.
    Many famous people were involved including Samuel Gompers and Clarence Darrow.
    Thank you Unions and Labor for your sacrifice.

    And its not over yet. The initial tactic of today’s Republicans is to break unions and organized labor. Don’t be fooled by the folksy and congenial appearance of the RR’s. T, and The ultra wealthy. They don’t have your interests in mind. How do you think they have accumulated such extreme wealth and power? At an ever increasing rate.
     
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  7. goatrope

    goatrope Members

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    In my experience, the primary purpose of most businesses is to make the most money possible without getting caught.
     
  8. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    The year I was born, 1939--the minimum wage was 30 cents. 2 dollars and forty cents for 8 hours, work 6 days a week=$14.40 Have things changed a little? Not too much=Federal minimum wage=$ 7.25 an hour. Median home price in 1940= $ 30,000 Price of a Cadillac in 1940=$ 1, 685.Now? Between $38 thousand and Fifty eight thousand. Cup of coffee 1940=.16 cents. Starbucks= between 2 and 5 dollars.
    You can see why it drives us old fucks crazy at the prices of vehicles-30--40 thousand dollars and up, not to mention housing prices! And food --and gas. (18 cents when I first started driving) The minimum wage has never---and will never be enough to live on. It just seems to me --and I'm no financial expert--that capitalism is not only leaving so many way behind, but the system itself is eating itself alive! It's no wonder why so many in society are so pissed off!
     
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  9. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    During the late 30s--during the depression, my late lady friend told me her family's land lord came by one day and said--"I'm going to get electricity installed in your house, so I'm sorry but I;m going to have to raise your rent. The rent was 8 dollars a month--he raised it by 50 cents.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2025
  10. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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  11. TheGreatShoeScam

    TheGreatShoeScam Members

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    Its not capitalism ! its those government turds mandating all that crap in new cars nobody wants.

    upload_2025-1-30_20-39-41.png

    Its those bureaucrats no one voted for mandating all this crap no one "demanded" it like supply and demand no one said I want a damn cell phone with wheels that spies on and tracks me all the time.

    A capitalist would love to build and sell affordable cars, they are not allowed.

    upload_2025-1-30_20-50-46.png

    Same with houses, those sacks o crap are on you from start to finish you can't have a bedroom without a closet and bla bla bla we are government sacks o crap nit pick everything like we own the place.

    I have a friend 88 years old she loves telling her life story and when she says "we built a house" not this stupid shit we do today "permits" and "licensed contractors" no the family got together and built the house.
     
  12. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The Car and Driver quote you provided relates a Deloitte analysis.
    It's about the computer chip shortage caused by COVID in 2020. It does state, "These components (Computer chips) form the basis of the electronic subassemblies which now account for about 40% of the cost of a vehicle, up from 18% in 2002. That's an increase of 22% in 18 years. That would be an increase of 1.222 % a year.
    Nowhere does it say anything about this 1.222% per year increase being due to governmental mandates at the state or federal level.
    The majority of the current electronic items installed in cars, especially high priced cars, has little or nothing to do with federal mandates.

    Factor in the cost of premium stereo and entertainment systems; auto dimming mirrors, navigation, lane correction, adaptive cruise control, power windows, locks, and seats; heated seats and steering wheels; security systems, adaptive lighting, electric steering, traction control, active suspension, satellite and cell linkage, factory dash, back up, and surround view cameras, automatic parking, heads up displays, immobilizers, remote starting, automatic transmission electronics, brake assist (not ABS), climate control, memory electric seats, automatic wipers, digital instruments, electric emergency brakes, etc., etc.

    None of which I believe are mandated.
    That's just what sells.

    In 1940 that Cadillac cost $1,685. That equals $37,985.32 in 2025.
    $14.40 a week in 1940 equals $324.62 today.
    For under $30,000 dollars I get cars that would make that 1940 Cadillac look like Fred Flintstone's car.
    In 2024 the average weekly pay (for 5 days not 6) was $1,224.
    A 1940 Cadillac would take 120 weeks or 2 years to pay off.
    A 2025 $30,000 car, loaded with stuff that was never dreamed of in 1940, would take 24 weeks to pay off or less than half a year.

    Most cars built in 1940 had no computer controlled engine components, no power windows, seats, or steering. Manual transmissions were the norm, cables were used for the speedometer, throttle (sometimes just a mechanical linkage), climate control, and emergency brake. Plus they were high maintenance, low power, and highly unsafe.

    So don't blame the government for the high cost of cars today.

    Same with houses.
    The study you mention states, and I quote:
    The governmental regulations on houses and the construction of those houses today are all for safety.

    Try reading The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair before you start ranting about government mandates.


     
  13. granite45

    granite45 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Tomorrow the tariffs come galloping back as the Rs try to recreate the economy of the 1890’s with a tiny sliver of the ultra wealthy and the rest of us left further and further behind. Taxes on the rich will be cut, consumers will pay the tariff in higher prices.

    Then comes retaliation from Canada and Mexico and the economy will resemble a blizzard of shit. And those rural folks in East Podunk, Wisconsin will wonder why.
     
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