Tibetan book of living/dying Sogyal Rinpoche....

I have started reading this book and am 100 pages in or so.

I am enjoying it for what it is. Quite judgemental towards the west in its opening chapters, we have to consider it was written in the early 90's.

A little summary:

The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying - Wikipedia

Some nice meditation tips, Tibetan style, that are always worth being refreshed upon. The Tibetans seem quite warm hearted, at least those he speaks of.

I may try a photo or mantra, I don't use these by choice, just to feel how they differ.

I do not meditate with eyes open.I could understand this more easily if you had a nice glade to look at instead of a plain painted wall. Any thoughts on this would be interested.

Maybe I appreciate the "shutting out" aspect of eyes closed. I do understand why eyes open seems potentially useful given ultimately mindfulness and peace should be brought into daily life to really mean something beyond formal sitting.

Interesting anecdotes relating to children recalling prior lives. Mystical and engaging but not sufficient as personal evidence.

I have a bit of a problem with believing things that I do not know and instead say I do not know.

I do not know what I am expecting, nothing really, I am not expecting a insight flash that gives me doubtless knowledge of reincarnation.

Interesting that Joy seems only to come from helping others and doing good deeds and no other way. I will have to investigate this practically. I am fairly compassionate as a person and have empathy but am also selfish as well, I can see both sides in myself. I don't feel much joy really so maybe I need to do more for others in all sorts of different ways. But who and what and how much ? And of great importance for what motive...doing it just to experience joy does not seem very virtuous or to gain good karma. Karma is much easier to accept, I accept karma.

Outwardly much points to reincarnation, even logic in some way but what I really know, if that can ever be said is this moment in this life I live. Even if only speaking of normal thinking mind perception. Yes there is emptiness behind that which has peace and luminosity and that adds something to life of course to be able to access that conscious space.

Never had an NDE etc so I still have to say I don't know. I could quote Sogyal and his words but they present in the negative as suggestion for reincarnation and that still does not give a strong enough case for reincarnation.

I suppose there is part of me that still considers death as the end of conscious existence and who could not be ok with that ? It seems very egotistical to not be ok with that if that is what it is. There would be nothing to not find it agreeable after all, an almost perfect result maybe. I suppose it seems incongruous to consider all of this depth of existence just for total non existence.

I am open to reincarnation as a possibility as I am that there is total non existence.

I do my daily practice and I do get a little loosening of the grip of reality at times in the day where things seem a little less solid, dare I say illusory.

It is a good book that can be highly recommended for all to read, get it cheap second hand.

 

Ok thanks KathyL. That could be useful as some days I do drift off into an unconscious haze which is the precursor to a snore and abrupt upright jolt to awake state. Well it happens especially if you do an hour or so a day.


In the book it suggests an image of Padmasambhva or maybe the Mantra Om Ah Hum vajra Guru padma siddi hum, stuck in my head since the 90s that. Though have to bear in mind that may be for complete beginners.

It is a nice read, enjoying the book, very soft, kind, humane and compassionate writing.

 

You should.

 

I read 2/3rd of Tibetan book of the dead and had a very hard time of it. Lots of speak of states and ghouls and other weird phenomena and visitations
and attractions and aversions and in the end it seems if the sheer terror of the incomprehensible experience it gets to you and you duck it by ending up... well.... back here it seems !

I mean that could just be a form of human psychology extended into somewhat unknown realms, the realms of being a dead person. It does somehow Grok.. (The name comes from the term "grok", a jargon term used in computing to mean profoundly understand) but maybe more of that's how we often deal with life events we cannot take them so leave them rather than resolve underlying causes of pain, fear, sorrow etc. So we leave though the causes and pain in inside not always related to a place person or perceived time in a life.

Not that that means one should not try and leave a very bad circumstance in life.

 

I have hit page 140 and it is quite clear how critical the master/disciple relationship is in Tibetan Buddhism. As such I am not entirely sure I will read the rest of the book. It is all getting just a little too personal historic for me. I don't have a Tibetan Master living on my street oddly enough so how can one make any progress. It seems that the Tibetan Buddhist path is completely reliant on a master.

Which is a shame as it spoke very intensely about the great urgency. Not much use unless you happen to be living close to an exiled master really, is it ?

Time does feel short, that's a good thing, cause it is, and it may well be even shorter than we truly understand.

I may spend time meditating myself, watching J.Krishnamurti videos or starting another one of the books I have. Once I hit the really religious parts I seem to lose interest rather. Same with Zen, always gets a little incomprehensible to me Zen. Fantastically inspiring quotes though, from Zen. My favourite's and inspire daily, the quotes and proverbs are quite a contrast to the impossible to comprehend aspects of Zen.

The " I " in me currently just does not do belief without evidence really, even mystical, spiritual, esoteric, occult (the least of my area of interest as it spooks me a little) type evidence which i am reasonably open to.

I put it down to it just not being meant to be if such things do not happen naturally, which they sometimes do but they can never be predicted or forced.

I will be in the moments and mindful as I can and approach in a way that feels right. I will give TTBOLAD a bit more time but it is clear
that without a master from the text in the book itself, this is time wasted.

 

The Tibetans seem very much eyes open oriented. TTBOLAD suggetss looking at Padmasambhava image or reciting the mantra above. Little mentioned about falling asleep other than the obvious that it is not conducive to a focused state of calm awareness.

I am not up for staring at my wall. I may introduce it as an experiment, an image of Padmasanbhava is preferable to a blank piece of wallpaper I.

I am persisting with the book for now...and the core of the meditation for Tibetans is 'Guru Yoga', in short, white light shining from forehead of your master - actual master as an image in your mind or imagined (i.e. padmasambhava)- ruby red from the throat, Blue from the heart towards you, and then your master imagined to be dissolving into white light and merging with you. It is devotional and clearly. it is a visualization exercise.



I think it appears to have some kind of parallel to manifestation from the new age/wellness people in my view.Merging your own Buddha consciouness with the Buddha consciouness of the master. If it is the one and the same why not just "be it" - the Buddha consciousness that is, which seems to literally be base line energy of existence to me so far. From which either equanimity emerges or ego) for the duration of the meditation ?

Maybe it assume beginners are reading which is fair.

It is no wonder enlightenment takes such a long time generally.

 

I had some thoughts on a diplomatic direction for China and Tibet. Should they just stay out of each other's way?

I don't think that is how it works.

In my ambitious dream, the one will not interfere with the other. There should be a liaison to represent both sides and the first step is to sideline old concerns and see if progress can be made to align the prefecture with the state, and more so to align both with peace.

An agreement can eventually be reached. I'm sure of it!

Both sides can only admit their priorities. To look at them and see congruent areas can be an encouragement and a motivator.

In the past, it has been a demand from either side or an unwillingness to compromise and to sacrifice for the benefit of both sides that has been an obstacle.

But both sides are more ready than ever previously. And the "Free Tibet" days of anger can rest. And the future of a unified system of trust and reverence can replace the past that has been unhappy, unfair, and for both unpleasant.

The wish is that the solution serves both. If it takes time before both sides commit reciprocity it is surely worth the wait.

 

Great book overall and a very positive ending, recommended for sure. I managed to get a second hand copy for really low price. I will also check and see what other books there may be by the author. It had a place in the heart having read it about 30 years ago when I was young.

I edit the post as I am rather saddened to find another book called :

"Sex and Violence in Tibetan Buddhism: The Rise and Fall of Sogyal Rinpoche"

What is it with these people ? Was Jiddu Krishnamurthi the only person of true integrity in these matters ? Obviously I have not read the book above and know nothing about the claims.

Whilst this is an anticlimax after reading it, I will move forwards.

Ordered the actual Tibetan book of the dead as well now. Uhhh ! Disappointing is an understatement.

 

Makes me feel a bit silly now really. I still have respect for Tibetan Buddhism but it seems that you cannot really trust anyone.

That is something worth knowing and maybe is meant to be. In fact it is a teaching in itself.

Don't be a total idiot in this spiritual life !

Even someone who suggests they are some kind of authority. Possibly even especially an "authority". This simply reinforces my gut feeling that J.Krishnamurti was right, "no one else can tell you if you are corrupt" Especially those who are already corrupt !

I won't let this individual change anything after my initial disgust. And to think after Dalai Lama he was the most well known representative. What severe and serious damage he did.

Espousing such grand ideas as well, I shake my head. He was not convicted but the accounts are many. The book is on Amazon and the book comments hard to read.

Tibetan Buddhist teacher accused of sexual abuse dies

Dalai Lama meets alleged abuse victims

 

It is not good enough this book is now in the bin ! As suspected this is between yourself whatever you find that to be, and existence.

What a dirty mark on Tibetan Buddhism he was. Very saddened, well briefly, more for those abused. I can move forwards with ease, after all it was just a bunch of words. I will read the Tibetan book of the dead soon.

 

Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche gave a commentary about Sogyal Rinpoche and non-dualistic teachers.

A really qualified teacher of non-dualistic realization will themselves have that realization, and will have the sole motivation of benefiting their student. They also won't just take any student. They'll select only qualified students (an exception might be made if a student begs), and also spend time time carefully preparing them.

His view seemed to be that there are some truly awful non-dualistic teachers who are neither qualified nor have the right motivation.

He seemed to think Sogyal Rinpoche had the correct motivation, but just wasn't qualified.

He also seemed to think that Chogyam Trungpa was both qualified and had the correct motivation.

If you look at the stories of famous Tibetan Buddhist masters and their own masters, they get rough treatment. I think the idea is that non-dualistic realization means seeing everything as good, and therefor it's all the things we see as bad that get in the way of that. So once a teacher has found a qualified student, they'll really beat on them. They might stop short of killing the student, but aside from that, pretty much anything goes.

The stories of Tilopa and Naropa come to mind. Also Marpa and Milerepa.

So from this perspective, it's not really what the teacher does, but their motivation, qualification, and the care with which they select and prepare their students.

 

There is part of me that reads that as a dogmatic, complication of words for of justification for sexual and violent abuse of other humans, basically a load of nonsense. It sounds pretty deluded to me. The Dalai Lama has said he is disgraced on a YT video.



Delusion, with great irony is something that Buddhists are meant to be dispelling, not supporting.

It sounds a lot like fearful deluded, fearful disciple Tibetan Buddhism speak to me.

In fact the only person you need fear is yourself (under the broad term that represents both superficial and at you are the universe level), cause you essentially project your existence through your actions in every moment.

There is something about male Eastern spiritual teachers in that they say one thing (understand desire, pleasure in relation to its opposites), do another (get their genitals out and dupe, coerce, scare, threaten, force ? people into 'blessings'), then justify it as a stream of intellectual or religious concepts in their own mind.

I am having none of it, an abuser is an abuser. And he seemed very much deluded.

If you need exploitative sex and violence on the path to enlightenment you are on the wrong path. Amazing really to speak of love compassion and the most difficult of human issues to deal with and be accused by many of being a violent sex abuser.

I suppose we are not meant to think about karma here ? What a load of hypocritical BS.

Don't delude yourself that his actions were ok, these actions is the antithesis of love and compassion, absolutely conditional, 100pct dualistic and it needs to out right in the open, along with the quiet fearful enablers who kept it hushed, basically, weak, fearful, fools who follow others, they would not know love and compassion if it slapped them in the face. They know selfishness.

I know where I am with all of this now, it's good, clarity on the path is very important as we are own worst enemy in all of this.

Progress here is fast, at least it feels that way, I am getting absolutely nowhere and that's perfect. Cutting through BS with the machete of immediacy is supremely important, BS, especially the very easy to see versions holds you back and you only have yourself to blame.

In fact there is no one else to blame for anything, it is all your responsibility. That IS Karma in the very essence of the word.

 

Seems very sensible Kathy, shame I never read about the allegations before reading a 400 page book again ! Oh well must have been mean tot be
for some reason. I feel weird reading it, but do not regret it oddly enough.

Next up book options.. Life after Life (Kubler Ross), Polishing the mirror (Ram Dass), Freedom from the known (J.Krishnamurti) or Each moment is the universe. I think the last is resonating strongly at the moment, by Dainin Katagiri, also have Tao Te Ching (Lao Tzu) here, that looks like a nice meditative read that you can read a few pages of...whilst reading another book.

So many great books ! I have a nice little library growing.

 

When did I say his actions were ok? It seems to be universally agreed that Sogyal Rinpoche failed. It's just that some believe he was a total failure, whereas Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche believes he was a failure despite having the correct motivation.

What were his motivations? I don't know. Is there such a thing a non-dualistic realization? I don't know that either.

 

Not sure who is claiming to be enlightened, I don't think Sogyal Lakar did, we can ditch the Rinpoche now.

I don't really care what Jamyang whoever says if honest, I can decide.

"So from this perspective, it's not really what the teacher does."

That rubbed me up the wrong way, if I understood it correctly, tell that to those who were abused.

 

Imho, a lot depends on if they were adults and what they agreed to.

If the dialogue was:
Teacher: Hey, do you want to enlightenment?
Student: Sure!
Teacher: *beats on student*
...and the student then complained about being abused or exploited, then I would blame the teacher.

If the dialogue was:
Teacher: Hey, do you want to enlightenment?
Student: Sure!
Teacher: You do realize that taking the shortest path to enlightenment means clearing out all of your bad karma, which means you're going to have to suffer incredibly in this lifetime to get there. As your teacher, I'm going to beat the shit out of you to clear away your karma so you can get enlightenment. It's just going to be rough as hell, so do don't do it unless you're ready for it.
Student: Yes, I want enlightenment so bad. Just beat the fuck out of me, do anything short of killing me so that I can get enlightenment asap. I'm totally ready.

...and the teacher also took care to prepare the student, and to weed out any students that weren't actually ready for this or who didn't really know what they were getting themselves into, but even after this the student complained of being abused and exploited, then I would blame the student.