the jewish 10 commandments look very similar to the "Code of Hamurabi" in ancient Mesopatamia/Babylon. I wonder why...
How about I make his point for him, how is it that a code of laws that claims to be directly from G-d himself handed down to his prophet, is strikingly similar to a code that existed before the time of moses? I figure thats what he was getting at, don't you?
Yeah, but as a liberal Jew I don't have a problem with that. And I don't claim Torah was recieved as Sinai. I have no clue who the Historical Moses was. I consider all texts only sacred because we make them so, but I consider this a useful way to extend the Divine into our world. Dauer
If you wanna talk about the 10 commandments... A book I read said Moses was handed down the 613 mitzvot and the 10 commandments at the same time..the author seemed a bit confused on it. All of the 613 relate to certain passages which prohibit or condone certain practices, passages which I THINK already existed.. I really doubt that 2 sets of commandments were handed down! So this thread made me think a bit, maybe the 10 commandments did echo already existing ones as a basic code... maybe the 613 are just the amalgamation of existing rules or ideas put down in the texts (unless something spectacular happened and they each related perfectly to existing texts)..or maybe the texts were written afterwards to reinforce the 613.. *is so confused* Does anyone have knowledge on this? It's always troubled me.. Especially because it surfaced as the basis of christian rules..How did it happen!
It seems some of the portions of the mitzvot are adaptations of older codes, and other portions were specific to the Hebrews. Like many things, something that already existed was made use of. There were other sacrificial systems. There were other codes of law and morality. There were other flood stories. This is the combination specific to the Jewish people, especially as it developed over the ages instead of being absorbed by conquering nations. There are actually important differences between the Jewish code and Hamurrabi's, between the biblical flood and the one in the Epic of Gilgamesh. These differences are significant and worth researching. But if you're looking for a traditional answer, it is hard to know exactly how Moses recieved all of the mitzvot from God and I'd suggest looking at a few medieval commentaries to get some ideas. Remember that he recieved both the oral and written torahs. The oral torah was passed down by word of mouth as explained at the beginning of Pirkei Avot -- which is available on Chabad's site -- and the written Torah was brought down on Sinai. I know that all of the 613 can be found in the 10. Dauer
I read there is actually 613 commandments! www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-613-mitzvot-commandments I pretty much try to follow the 10 but 6 hundred and 13?
You must be talking about mitzvot. Unless you're Jewsih, I don't think you need to worry about those. According to the Talmud (not the Bible), Gentiles are only bound by the seven Noahide laws: 1. No idolatry; 2. No blasphemy; 3. Don't murder anybody; 4. Don't eat the flesh of a living animal (yuck!); 5. Don't steal; 6. Don't have immoral sex (incest, adultery, or gay sex at least for guys); 7. establish courts to enforce these laws. As for the mitzvot, Rabbi Simlai said there were 513, but this has been disputed by other rabbis. Anyhow, enough to keep folks busy and out of the bars. Personally, I'd recommend the two Jesus said underlie "all the Law and the Prophets": Love of God and Neighbor (Mat 22:37). We could do a better job on those. Sometimes I think it might be because we get distracted keeping up with all the other rules.
Not exactly. Hillel said: “That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the entire Torah, and the rest is commentary. Now go and study.” Hillel, Talmud, Shabbat 31a. That differs from Jesus' version in two ways: it's negative phrasing and the lack of explicit coupling to love of God and neighbor. It does, however, include the idea that it summarized the Torah, or "the Law and the Prophets", as Jesus put it. Do suspect that Jesus and/or Matthew were influenced by Hillel? Yes, I do. But Hillel wasn't exactly original either. He was borrowing from a passage in Leviticus 19:18. “You shall neither take revenge from nor bear a grudge against the members of your people; you shall love your fellow as yourself. I am the L‑rd.” Jesus seems to have added a passage from Deuteronomy 6:4-5: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." Atheists might find that one problematic, but if we understand that to the gospel writers (at least John) God is Love, and they thought all humans are made in God's image and likeness, it might be more easily appreciated. These prophets are echoing principles found in other religious traditions, as well: Ancient Egypt: The Eloquent Peasant; Babylon: Code of Hammurabi; Ancient Greece: Plato, Laws; Zoroastrianism: Shayast-na-Shayast; Taoismm:T’ai Shang Kan Ying P’ien; Confucianism, Hinduismn: Mahabharata (Anusasana Parva 113.8; Buddhism: Udanavarga (5:18); Islam, Al_Bukhari, Hadith 13, etc. All of these like, Hillel, use the negative form of the rule. "Don't do unto others...", sometimes dubbed the "Silver Rule". How did this happen? Possibly as a result of cultural diffusion. But there may be a more fundamental reason, rooted in biological evolution. Reciprocal altruism (primitive form of the Golden Rule?), "behavior that involves helping someone because, if you do, there is a strong chance that they will help you in the future" reciprocal altruism, is found in a variety of (not all) non-human species, including certain bacteria, social insects, cleaner fish, birds, vampire bats, herd and pack animals, and primates. Unfortunately, in humans the trait is unstable, because our more advanced intellect gives us a greater ability to cheat. https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...vers/4e671994e5b0c7aefbecd050e95fdb45272d7e12 Empathy, the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another Definition of EMPATHY, is another trait that is found in non-human species: rodents, wolves and dogs, elephants, bottle nosed dolphins, and non-human primates Toward a cross-species understanding of empathy - PMC Unfortunately, this behavior in humans seems to be most evident in primal societies where most members share kinship or marital bonds and face-to-face relationships. As societies become large and complex, as in kingdoms, empires and nation-states, it becomes more difficult for this to occur by biological evolution alone. Some of our current politicians seem to lack the empathy God gave a rat! Humans have had to pick up the slack with cultural evolution, including the teachings of philosophers and religious leaders like Zarathustra, the Buddha, Hillel, and Jesus. Reciprocal altruism and empathy are crucial to human social cohesion which is central to our survival. I like Jesus' version, which sees love as God's essence, and love of neighbor as reflective of humans as God's image and likeness. All those mitzvahs, creeds, and rituals that separate religions can, IMO, clutter things up and get out of focus the prime directives.
Really? There may be some superficial similarities, but there are fundamental differences. The Hammurabi Code is much longer (over 4,000 lines), and as the name implies, is a law code specifying rights duties, and penalties in considerable detail--based on the principle of lex talonis (the law of the talon): an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, etc}. It is much longer more detailed about specific penalties for particular offenses and circumstances, in several categoreis: (Laws concerning social structures, duties and debts of farmers, care of date orchards, looting of burning buildings, inn keeping, etc.). And the rights and duties differ according to a person's legal status: free man versus a slave, male or female, etc. For example: "If the first wife and a female slave of a free man both bear him sons, and the father acknowledges the sons of the female slave as his own, then the sons of the female slave shall share equally with the sons of the first wife in the paternal inheritance after the death of the father." (#159) "If a female wineseller/tavern-keeper does not accept grain according to gross weight in payment of drink, but takes money so that the price of the drink is less than that of the grain, she shall be convicted and thrown into the water.(#108). If a nun/temple virgin opens a tavern door or enters a tavern for a drink, she shall be burned to death.(#110) Harsh! See the difference? The Ten Commandments differ from Hammurabi's Code in being only ten, being much more general, and being the same for all people --arguably more suitable for general moral guidelines, though less suitable for determining consequences for particular wrongs.
My guess is that the followers of Jesus came from sects that were influenced by Zoroastrian ideas during the couple of centuries when Judea and Galilee were ruled by Persia as the province of Yehud Medinata. The Essenes, in particular, seem to have adopted a perspective similar to Zoroastrianism, as shown by the War Scroll of the Qumran community of Essenes.
