Battle for Tibet

Discussion in 'Buddhism' started by newbie-one, Mar 14, 2025.

  1. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    His Holiness the Dalai Lama has embraced a "middle way" approach to negotiating with China, no longer seeking independence, but rather the preservation of Tibetan religion, culture, and it's environment. The Chinese government has adopted an entirely uncompromising position, and appears to be intent on crushing the Dalai Lama's lineage and replacing him with a communist puppet. This PBS Frontline documentary gives some information about this story.

     
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  2. Piobaire

    Piobaire Village Idiot

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    The annexation of Tibet by the PRC has been a fait accompli for 73 years. All things are impermanent, including tiny nation-states and global empires, as the United States is now discovering.
     
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  3. Vessavana

    Vessavana Members

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    Also often missed is that Tibet had “only” de facto self rule in the chaos between the crumbling of the Chinese empire and the communist power grab.

    It was never an internationally recognised state.

    So I am not sure what is the legal claim. There is the right of self determination principle, but that is a slippery slope in international politics (think any separatist movement ever).

    Also let’s not ignore that the incarnated lamas in general and the DL in particular are a very specific local development that in itself had a political undertone with Mongol influence, it is not a typical Buddhist idea.

    Not sure why is this in the Buddhist section though, it is a political topic.
     
  4. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    Tibet has a long history, and only part of it has been under Chinese occupation.
    I'm not going to get into the weeds of the validity of Tibetan sovereignty. The Dalai Lama is now officially not seeking independence, but rather simply the preservation of Tibetan religion, culture, and its environment. It doesn't seem like too much to ask to me.
    The tulku system may be very particular to Tibetan Buddhism, but it sounds like you're challenging its legitimacy based on the fact that it's not typical of other non-Tibetan Buddhists.

    The veneration of Guru Padmasambhava, Vajarapani, Hayagriva, Palden Lhamo, Mahakala, and so on may not be typical of other Buddhist sects, but that does not make it illegitimate. There is absolutely no obligation for Buddhists to only observe traditions observed by all other Buddhists.

    The leadership of Tibetans-in-exile is no longer seeking independence from China. While they are seeking other things like linguistic and environmental rights, one of the main, if not the main thing they are seeking is the right to decide upon their own religious leadership rather than embracing communist puppets.

    This is very much a question of religious freedom for Buddhists, and therefor properly in the Buddhist section, though it is at the intersection of religion and politics.
     
  5. Vessavana

    Vessavana Members

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    Every region was something else than it is now at some time.

    CCP for sure is not a good player in all this, certainly not defending their behaviour.

    Religion is not science, legitimacy is a moot point and in the eye of the beholder.
    It is/was a politicised institution used to maintain secular theocratic power, has no foundation even in Indian tantric buddhism, let alone older strata and is unrelated to fundamentals of the religion.

    But my point was in political aspect of the religion, usage of such doctrines to gain and keep political power, using armies and physical violence - including against different Buddhist sects/orders and what not. All this Gandhian nonviolent approach and the almost universal acceptance of universalist post-sectarian ideals are out of necessity, because they lost all political power (by force, not choice) and can rely only on the moral one and the empathy of the sympathetic public. That would change again in a couple of years if they happened to regain political power, much like the indian Independence movement started using the armed forces and strongarming as soon as they god some actual power. The Chinese are assholes, but tibetans were not all rainbows and butterflies either.
     
  6. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    I think that's an atheist and anti-religious perspective on it, and essentially all religion. I don't think anyone has to accept that perspective though.

    If so, it's still not obligated to have a foundation in Indian tantric Buddhism. We wouldn't need to make a distinction between Indian tantric Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism if they were exactly the same.

    No religion is obligated to be just like, or rooted in, some other religion that it's related to.

    If your point here is that Tibetans are imperfect people, I agree. I also agree that if they, or pretty much anyone, had more power than they do now, they'd be more inclined to be dicks.

    The fact remains though that a communist, atheist, occupying government is trying crush Tibetan Buddhist traditions and render Tibetan Buddhism a vehicle for Chinese state power.
     

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