Last I heard, prostitution is still illegal in Sweden. Although simply being a prostitute is not. Now that last one is a step in the right direction. Because being a prostitute is what they call a status crime, rarely or never the woman's fault. But from I understand prostitution for the customer is a felony now. (Of course just to point out, the customer and prostitute can both be either male or female.) I think that is a bad idea. Yes, prostitution can be exploitation. And although always considered a necessary evil since the time of St. Augustine, it usually has been a crime of exploitation. It still is in many part of the world, like Asia and Russia. But not at all in some parts of the world. In fact I brought up prostitution as an alternative to people who are handicapped to my therapist in 2011. In the story I gave, some man from the UK in a wheelchair who went to the Netherlands to find a mate. My therapist told me something interesting. In places like that he said the prostitute specializes in people with special needs. And prostitutes get benefits and live under working conditions better than many people in my country do. The reason why some people in Sweden think prostitution is almost like modern slavery (according to one official in Sweden I saw interviewed on TV once) is because their views are biased. And I think it is mostly subconscious. It can be due to the time period they grew up or even to their culture. I know radical feminist Gloria Steinem wrote of her experience working undercover as a Playboy Bunny in exposé titled "A Bunny's Tale" in 1963. She worked long hours carrying heavy trays in high heels (oh, you poor dear). But she said the greatest outrage that really made her feel like an object was wearing that bunny tail. Also to prepare for the job, she had to actually read a Playboy. For the first time in her life. And she wrote: “A woman reading Playboy feels a little like a Jew reading a Nazi manual.” Now I am not comparing anyone here to Gloria Steinem. Because I would never do that. But my point is sometimes people just don't realize how biased their views are because they feel so strongly about them. Or they suffer from what is called groupthink. Also, I should point out. Prostitution must be carefully regulated. I used to think it should be just decriminalized like abortion was once in my country. No, it needs to be carefully regulated. And the rules for it are just different. If a person doesn't want to have sex with a particular person, for any reason, that is a personal choice. But of course the laws regarding things like discrimination for all groups should be the same for a brothel as any other business. Pandering should probably be illegal, because it can involve exploitation. Also someone brought up something interesting on another message board. If a person with a mental handicap, or other problem with affects their judgement, went to a place of prostitution that could be seen as sexual exploitation by the prostitute. Even though what they are doing is a profession, not actual sex. I think I could see that argument. Also I might add people with mental handicaps and mental illnesses are slightly more likely to be violent and disruptive. Of course the rules for them would be the same in a brothel as any place else. If they are disruptive they will be asked to leave and told to never come back. Or I would add, a brothel could have some common sense security measures for the workers. Guards stationed in the hallways and outside the doors would be one. I know where I live, Detroit, for a while public schools had buttons by the teacher's desk. Students knew if she needed to summon the guard all she had to do was press it. It was always next to her like I said. That's a good security measure. (You understand the button by her desk was meant mainly as a deterrent. I'm sure there was already a camera in every room to begin with.) Thoughts?
I was going to add, as I said above I am not at all trying to judge your country. I just think your reasoning is flawed when you think prostitution per se somehow exploits and objectifies women. It does not. People in your country who feel that way are just suffering from groupthink. (Also David Reuben brought up a good point in his 1969 book "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex But Were Afraid to Ask". Early on as toddlers our mothers tell us it's inappropriate to touch certain areas of you body or talk about certain subjects in public. And we just hold onto that irrational guilt throughout life.) But as I said, the rules have to be a little different in brothels and it has to be more carefully regulated. I was surprised to learn about 20 years ago that soliciting a prostitute was a felony in Sweden. As I said, I am totally against any laws that involve consenting adults. I was also surprised to learn simply being a prostitute was not illegal in your country. Now as I said I think that is a step in the right direction. Also in my country some people say prostitution is just another status crime, like being mentally ill or homeless. I don't know about that. Sometimes it is, but I'll have to think about that one. But I hope I at least gave you all some things to think about here.
Sorry, Jim. You lost me when you began using others' opinion, to justify your position, neither of which can be considered factual or of relevance to anyone but those authors.
What?? I am not "using others' opinion to justify my position". I don't even know what you're saying, so I'll leave it there.
There are certain counties in Nevada where prostitution is legal but only in licenses brothels where the prostitutes are required to undergo regular STD testing and condoms must be used. There are many, many ways for it to be exploitative but if you strip away all the possible scenarios for that happening and view it as just a person offering a service or skill that uses their own body in a specific way, it should not be illegal. I don't think it is exploitation for an adult person (I would say minimum 21) to choose to be a prostitute as long as they are not forced or coerced into it and their money is not taken from them, and since it is their body they get the final say of who gets to use it and in what ways. While a brothel offers a bit of security, and of course, the need for public safety through testing is easier to accomplish with licensed establishments than with lone workers, it does necessitate the brothel taking a cut of the profits, which could lead to abuses. It's considered the world's oldest profession. legal or not, it's not going anywhere, so legalizing it allows for it to be regulated and creates a safer way to accomplish it. I mean, if you think about it, a gold digger is basically a prostitute too but she doesn't usually name her price up front.
In conclusion I guess, I am a little confused by enforcement of vice laws versus the actual laws. In the US enforcement and the actual laws are always assumed to be one in the same. But not so in other countries I've heard. I started reading in HS in my encyclopedia that prostitution was considered a necessary evil since the time of St. Augustine. Not really illegal, but rather in a gray area of the law. But it did often involve exploitation. And prostitutes were thought to have the lowest status in society. Around the time of the French Revolution people saw it was time to change all of that. Some said outlaw it completely. Others said carefully regulate it. I favor careful regulation, as I say. I know in the US we used to say places like the Netherlands were very liberal in their approach to social issues, and things like prostitution are perfectly legal there. But some years back someone pointed out they're probably not anymore or any less liberal than any other western country. And prostitution isn't legal, it was just tolerated there for years. Because I like the Swedish approach of not blaming the prostitution for what they do. But I don't think we need to go off the deep end with their johns, making them all felons. So prostitutes could never be arrested in Sweden. So how are their customers treated? Usually arrested? Sometimes arrested? Or rarely arrested?
I have no interest in doing a deep dive into this subject but when you make a statement like this "And prostitutes were thought to have the lowest status in society," it just sort of feels off to me. So I did a quick google search "Was there ever a time when prostitutes were revered?" here is part of what came back, the other part was talking about "sacred sex" in a religious context. Some historical accounts suggest that certain types of courtesans or women involved in these practices, such as the hetairai in ancient Greece or high-level geisha in Japan, were skilled in arts and conversation, and might command a level of respect and influence within their societies, according to World History Encyclopedia. In conclusion, while the idea of "revered prostitutes" might seem unusual from a modern perspective, historical evidence suggests that in certain ancient cultures and religious contexts, individuals engaged in specific forms of prostitution were not necessarily viewed with stigma, but might have held a respected or even sacred role within their communities. This demonstrates the diverse and evolving nature of social norms and attitudes towards sexuality and sex work throughout history.
Norway is very similar to Sweden and the law is stupid. I don’t think it helps in the long term other than keep down the numbers of new immigrants joining the sex trade. Fines and prison time for the clients and organizers are rather harsh so a bit more dangerous for sex workers if you think about it. Also maybe why not so many prosecutions…who would want to testify?
