Thank you capitalism

Yes, we will have fusion in plenty of time. Plans are already in the works for fusion reactors, and they'll almost certainly be commercially viable by the mid 2020s. But even if we didn't, there are plenty of other alternatives to fill the time gap between oil and fusion.

Since I've already made this point to you on many other threads many times, I see no reason to continue this line of thought on a thread about capitalism.

 

Even if you did all your doing is prolonging the inevitable as capitalism and industrialization keeps growing the demands to keep society running and sooner or later something will give and the Earth will not be able to keep up with growth, of course the longer we go down the road of industrialization as it would be harder down the road to de-industrialize then it would be to de-industrialize now.

 

Whenever someone says "just search on google" its pretty obvious they can't back themselves up and are trying to weasel out of it. Your article doesn't claim the US "stole" the oil money, in fact the $9 billion they mentioned was spent by Iraqi ministries, not the US. Lets keep in mind here that the US economy has a GDP of $12 trillion a year, so that figure would in any case be less than 0.1% of the US economy. And yet you say it is "one of the only reasons" US capitalism is working. I think it is now obvious you can't back this statement up.

China is not a nation of one billion child slave orphans. Their economy does not depend on child slave orphans. Wages are rising in China. It is the fastest growing economy in the world, and this rapid growth started AFTER the country opened up to trade and investment from the west.

Psy, the stone age didn't end because we ran out of stone. And we don't use oil because we ran out of coal. Your apocalyptic scenario is facile and silly. Go invest in fusion companies and prove us all wrong when you're a billionaire, but in the meantime don't expect us to live in fear of the sky falling.

 

I'm really amused by people considering industrialisation a sin of capitalism. Actualy, Marx said that to realise communism you need a highly developped heavy industry because the workers from this industry should become the leading class in the socialist society after the socialist revolution, making the trasnsition toward communism and the disolution of classes, state and towns-villages differencies, the disappearence of money etc. That's why the regims of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Romania first declared the people's republics, developped the heavy industry and only in some twenty years they declared the victory of the socialist revolution and changed the title of the state to socialist republic.

 

Thanks Sandu, its great to have the perspective of someone who's really lived through it. If only people realised that post-communist eastern europe is less polluting and more prosperous maybe they would realise that capitalism isn't the problem.

 

We didn't have industrialization during the stone age and industrialization was in infancy when we moved from coal to oil. Now industrialization has made energy use grossly inefficient because capitalism and industrialization does not mix since capitalism will push inefficiencies in the industrial world since energy not used has no value so capitalism will find a use even through inefficiency. All you have do is look at the suburbs and how thin it spreads us across the land but because it spreads us out so thin, cars are the only way to get around but land required for auto traffic takes up more land then you can realisticly put enough road to take the traffic thus by design there will always be traffic jams that in turn wastes energy even more as cars still burn gas when the inch through traffic, also this means that we have to invest more time in transit.

The industrial world was in its infancy during Marx time and de-industrilization doesn't mean getting rid of the industrial world but to reduce and reconfigure it to a more efficient form.

 

That was one of the most nonsensical posts I have ever read.

 

Don't you know industrial capitalist theory? Basic industrial capitalist theory demands constant growth, therefore everytime you decrease energy use under industrial capitalism the market will increase energy use somewhere else mostly through creating inefficiencies. Suburbia and replacing railway with hiways are examples of the market creating inefficiencies in order to create new energy demands in order to keep with industrial capitalist theory.

Come on this is basic Illich.

 

"The industrial world was in its infancy during Marx time and de-industrilization doesn't mean getting rid of the industrial world but to reduce and reconfigure it to a more efficient form."

That's exactly what communist regims didn't do.

 

Communist regims had their own inefficiencies, since their were planned economies they couldn't sell inefficiencies like the free market yet since they still based their economies on growth they had focus on productivity that led to another set of problems.

Thus like Illich pointed out the point, it is not a question of a planned or free market but of what do we base our idea of economic health on.

 

What the hell are you talking about?!

 

The simple fucking matter is, is that weather or not our former government 15, 16 years ago was really, "Communist" is irrelavent: It was run by the communist party. I could write a damn series of 10 books on what happened to my family alone. Now that there is capitalism, their economies are growing like they never did under communism, with foregin investment from Western Europe and all other parts of the world pouring in. It takes less than fucking common sense to figure out why Eastern Europe is on the rise: Capitalism.

 

The nations calling themselfs communist had their economies geared to export thus since you make your money exporting goods you can't use your own inefficiency to grow your economy like consumerist economies, this leaves increasing exports which in the cases of these so called communist nations they put exports above domestic to grow their economies.

This is the flaw of the so called communist nations was using materialistic ideas of success.

 

You have a right to your opinion, but i think the same things would be going on in a communist or socialist country, esp. if the people's guns were taken away from them and they were not able to protect themselves. Communists usually have a very warped view of how a country runs, they believe that just because the central government is GIGANTIC and they have more power than any capitalistic government could ever have over their people, everything is going to be ok, and that the government won't take advantage of their power over their people and just let everything be peachy. That isn't how it runs, Bush and his administration would love nothing more than to see the United States become 100% communist, so they could own all the land and take all the people's money from them, and launch a total police state right here in our country.

 

Angel Headed, you're almost right. But, it's true, totalitarian regims can control better the criminality. Some types of crimes were actualy absent in communism. But this was made with the total sacrifice of general freedom and much more many people were killed by the govenrment itself.