10 things INTELLEGENT christians can't answer

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by squawkers7, Apr 26, 2008.

  1. squawkers7

    squawkers7 radical rebel

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    If you are an educated Christian, I would like to talk with you today about an important and interesting question. Have you ever thought about using your college education to think about your faith? Your life and your career demand that you behave and act rationally. Let's apply your critical thinking skills as we discuss 10 simple questions about your religion.

    Here is an example of the kind of thing I am talking about: As a Christian, you believe in the power of prayer. According to a recent poll, 3 out of 4 doctors believe that God is performing medical miracles on earth right now. Most Christians believe that God is curing cancers, healing diseases, reversing the effects of poisons and so on.

    So here is question 1: Why won't God heal amputees?

    It's a simple question, isn't it? We all know that amputated legs do not spontaneously regenerate in response to prayer. Amputees get no miracles from God.

    If you are an intelligent person, you have to admit that it's an interesting question On the one hand, you believe that God answers prayers and performs miracles. On the other hand, you know that God completely ignores amputees when they pray for miracles.

    How do you deal with this discrepancy? As an intelligent person, you have to deal with it, because it makes no sense. In order to handle it, notice that you have to create some kind of rationalization. You have to invent an excuse on God's behalf to explain this strange fact of life. You might say, "well, God must have some kind of special plan for amputees." So you invent your excuse, whatever it is, and then you stop thinking about it because it is uncomfortable.

    Here is another example. As a Christian, you believe that God cares about you and answers your prayers.

    So the second question is: Why are there so many starving people in our world?

    Look out at our world and notice that millions of children are dying of starvation. It really is horrific. Why would God be worried about you getting a raise, while at the same time ignoring the prayers of these desperate, innocent little children? It really doesn't make any sense, does it? Why would a loving god do this?

    To explain it, you have to come up with some sort of very strange excuse for God. Like, "God wants these children to suffer and die for some divine, mysterious reason." Then you push it out of your mind because it absolutely does not fit with your view of a loving, caring God.

    Third question: Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible? Look up these verses:

    - Exodus 35:2 – God demands that we kill everyone who works on the Sabbath day.

    - Deuteronomy 21:18-21 – God demands that we kill disobedient teenagers.

    - Leviticus 20:13 – God demands the death of homosexuals.

    - Deuteronomy 22:13-21 – God demands that we kill girls who are not virgins when they marry.

    And so on… There are lots of verses like these.

    It doesn't make any sense, does it? Why would a loving God want us to murder our fellow human beings over such trivial matters? Just because you work on the wrong day of the week, you must die? That makes no sense, does it? In fact, if you think about it, you realize that it is insane. So you create some kind of rationalization to explain these verses.

    Question 4: Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense? You have a college degree, so you know what I'm talking about. You know how science works. You happily use the products of science every day: your car, your cell phone, your microwave oven, your TV, your computer. These are all products of the scientific process. You know that science is incredibly important to our economy and to our lives.

    But there is a problem. As an educated person you know that the Bible contains all sorts of information that is total nonsense from a scientific perspective.

    - God did not create the world in 6 days 6,000 years ago like the Bible says.

    - There was never a worldwide flood that covered Mt. Everest like the Bible says.

    - Jonah did not live inside a fish's stomach for three days like the Bible says.

    - God did not create Adam from a handful of dust like the Bible says.

    These stories are all nonsense. Why would an all-knowing God write nonsense? It makes no sense, does it? So you create some type of very strange excuse to try to explain why the Bible contains total nonsense.

    Question 5: Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the Bible? Look up these Bible verses:

    - Exodus 21:20-21 – God says that it is OK to own slaves, and it is also OK to beat them.

    - Colossians 3:22-24 – Slaves need to obey their masters.

    - Ephesians 6:5 – Slaves need to obey their masters just as they would obey Christ.

    - 1 Peter 2:18 – Slaves need to obey their masters, even if their masters are harsh .

    And so on…

    And why do all intelligent people abhor slavery and make it completely illegal? You have to come up with some kind of weird rationalization to explain it.

    Question 6: Why do bad things happen to good people? That makes no sense. You have created an exotic excuse on God's behalf to rationalize it.

    Question 7: Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence? It's very strange, isn't it? You have created an excuse to rationalize it.

    Question 8: How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you? Jesus is all-powerful and timeless, but if you pray for Jesus to appear, nothing happens. You have to create a weird rationalization to deal with this discrepancy.

    Question 9 – Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood? It sounds totally grotesque, doesn't it? Why would al all-powerful God want you to do something that, in any other context, sounds like a disgusting, cannibalistic, satanic ritual?

    And finally, Question 10 – Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians? Christians get married in front of God and their Christian friends, all of whom are praying to God for the marriage to succeed. And then they say, "What God has put together, let no man put asunder." God is all-powerful, so if God has put two people together that should seal the deal, right? Yet Christians get divorced at the same rate as everyone else. To explain this, you have to create some convoluted rationalization.

    So, we have looked at 10 fascinating questions. In order to believe in God, you have had to create all sorts of strange rationalizations and excuses. If you are an intelligent, college-educated person, all of these excuses and rationalizations probably make you uncomfortable. If you think about it honestly, using the critical thinking skills that you learned in college, you have to admit that your answers to these questions make no sense at all.

    Now, let me show you something remarkable. What if you instead assume that God is imaginary? A funny thing happens: the answers to every one of these questions make complete sense. Just look at all ten questions as an intelligent person:

    1) Why won't God heal amputees? Because God is imaginary, and he doesn't answer any prayers. Every "answered prayer" is actually a coincidence. All scientific evidence supports this conclusion.

    2) Why are there so many starving people in our world? Because God is imaginary, and he is therefore unable to answer their prayers.

    3) Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible? Because God is imaginary, and the Bible was written by ridiculous, ruthless men rather than any sort of loving being.

    4) Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense? Ditto. Primitive men wrote the bible, not an all-knowing being.

    5) Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery? Ditto.

    6) Why do bad things happen to good people? Because God is imaginary and bad things happen at the same statistical rates to everyone.

    7) Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence? Because God is imaginary, and Jesus' miracles are myths.

    8) How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you? Because God is imaginary.

    9) Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood? Because God is imaginary, and this bizarre ritual came from a pagan religion.

    10) Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians? Because God is imaginary.

    Do you see what has happened here? When we assume that God exists, the answers to these ten questions make absolutely no sense. But if we assume that God is imaginary, our world makes complete sense.

    It's interesting, isn't it? Actually, it's more than interesting – it is incredibly important.

    Our world only makes sense when we understand that God is imaginary.

    This is how intelligent, rational people know that God is imaginary.

    When you use your brain, and when you think logically about your religious faith, you can reach only one possible conclusion: the "god" that you have heard about since you were an infant is completely imaginary. You have to willfully discard rationality, and accept hundreds of bizarre rationalizations to believe in your "god."

    Now, let me ask you one last question: Why should you care? What difference does it make if people want to believe in a "god", even if he is imaginary?

    It matters because people who believe in imaginary beings are delusional.

    It matters because people who talk to imaginary beings are delusional.

    It matters because people who believe in imaginary superstitions like prayer are delusional.

    It's that simple, and that obvious. Your religious beliefs hurt you personally and hurt us as a species because they are delusional. The belief in any "god" is complete nonsense.
     
  2. Hryhorii

    Hryhorii Member

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    Well first off this technically should be moved to the Christianity Forum. Second, these things that make Christianity wrong only assume one interpretation of what it means to be Christian and what the Bible is. Third, it asumes God will always do what we ask him to, like prayer is the same as ordering a pizza. Fourth, it assumes God regularily breaks natural laws. Fifth, it ignores metaphors...

    On a more specific note: About slavery, in Philemon, Paul sends a run-away Christian slave back to his master, but orders the master to treat the slave like a brother. Pretty revolutionary shit for the time...
     
  3. heywood floyd

    heywood floyd Banned

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    I have some more things INTELLIGENT ooops I mean INTELLEGENT Christians can't answer.

    1) Why doesn't God do my laundry?
    2) Why doesn't he make the people that I don't like die?
    3) Why doesn't he just brainwash people so that everyone worships him?
    4) Why doesn't he make girls like me? I'm lonely! :(

    Think about it.
     
  4. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    God and Walt Disney are two diferent people Although when Walt dropped acid it got damm close!
     
  5. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Intelligent?
     
  6. relaxxx

    relaxxx Senior Member

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    Forget amputation, assuming God refuses to blatantly break the laws of nature. He will not even help regenerate microscopic nerves in the spinal cord of a paraplegic child who will never walk run or experience sexual sensation. On top of that, the most promising research in repairing nerve damage is under constant attack from the religious community. For some reason they still prefer to pray for miracles to a God who does not deliver. Well I know the reason, they are delusional people desperately clinging to lies and fairytales to convince themselves that God is delivering and providing for them.

    Forget about God always providing what you ask, in a world where basic necessities like food and shelter are the exception rather than the norm, does God even deserve praise for providing for 5% of the population?
     
  7. Quantex

    Quantex Member

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    AMEN!
     
  8. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    He will not even help regenerate microscopic nerves in the spinal cord of a paraplegic child who will never walk run or experience sexual sensation. On top of that, the most promising research in repairing nerve damage is under constant attack from the religious community. For some reason they still prefer to pray for miracles to a God who does not deliver.
    ....................................................................................................

    My take is that Merek, Johnson & Johnson, Bristol Myers Squibb, Hoffman LaRoach. Vioxx and other big Pharma can fund thier own research without my tax dollars. Let them borrow on the bond or stock market. This industry earns plenty of money.
     
  9. yosep

    yosep Member

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    1. if He do then He is not God, he is servant.

    2. if that happen you are God, or killer.

    3. we are not cyborg. God make us freewill.

    4. what do ya mean?
     
  10. neodude1212

    neodude1212 Senior Member

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    the OP is so full of fallacies that I dont want to touch it with a 12 foot pole.
     
  11. yosep

    yosep Member

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    squawker,
    you are good.

    i have explain some of it on this thread:
    http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300046&page=1&pp=10
    if people like you join to argue in this thread, that would be interesting.


    all your question so long, and so the answer so long too..and i will make it as short as possible.
    i will separate it, because i write it only on my free time.
     
  12. yosep

    yosep Member

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    before you read it, i hope you have read all post on thread above.
    question number:


    1. like you said, even if this happen you call it as coincidence.
    why not all? we're not living in the clean world, we live in dirty world because of our sin.
    we're cursed by our ancestor's sin (eve and adam). read Genesis 6-- you will find if there is people before Jesus who named son of God. that mean there is many NO SIN person in that Era. that just before God curse them too.
    son of God ?
    is eve and adam give birth before they eat the fruit? that's the answer.


    2. starving people is same case with,
    why God let evil entering the eden?
    why God let people war with their own kind?
    why God let Jesus be tortured?
    why God let Hitler kill so many Jew?
    Why God let us able to kill our fellow?
    why God let evil reign over this world in the end of time?

    3. there is difference between old testament and new testament. God change? no, that's because Jesus.
    i'll check your bible verse later. so answer will coming later.








    4. you're completely wrong if you think bible contain anti-scientific.
    check my thread above.

    -GENESIS. from where do you think God make world in 6 days?

    He doesn't create world on that time.


    read your bible again if you still skeptic. read Genesis 1. just check 'create' word.
    and 1 days=1000 years.
    your bible and mine are same, right? LOL.



    - FLOOD. this is interesting, i know the answer, but for more complete answer i'm suspend it. i'll check it later.
    and you check this one.
    http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/15198_earth.html
    even science prove it.
    and bible never mention if flood covered mt.everest.
    don't add the word on bible, and don't subtract it too.



    - JONAH. why 're you so sure????? are you Jonah's brother?

    - CLAY. why're you so sure?? did you born before Adam?

    - ANYTHING MORE?



    even if the bible written by primitive men, modern science cannot disapprove its word, not even a single word.
    if they can disapprove any single part of it today, the world today would be trembled because their religion shocked off.
    if any of you can find any fact to disapprove the bible, i'll happilly send it to christian community.

    more over, "science based on evidence" approve it.
    don't mention science based on opinion.











    5,6,7,8,9 skipped, i'm not too interest with those and i don't have much time.

    10. i don't think even to priest, 100% guarantee going to heaven when he die. if someone ever close with God, or he sooo kind, when he become bad, he potentially worst than someone not too kind, and he become bad.
    look out how lucifer fall from heaven.

    look, even Jesus blame the Jew priest on His era.


    and i don't think even to christian, they're automatically become good person. and i don't think christianity on high divorce country like United states, on high level, not even moderate level.
    christianity is about how good your relationship to God and your fellow.
     
  13. yosep

    yosep Member

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    i'm very curious person, i'm interest on this kind of thread.

    why?

    because i realize, the bible not only a mere dictat word, good and bad.

    every single word of it have power and have some mysterious side.





    i realize, the bible is like a puzzle.





    you will not find the answer if you just read it once and skeptic and never think it again.

    you can find answer if you think it as a puzzle.

    when you think this is not important, that doesn't mean that's not important.

    example:
    check genesis 1. you trapped before, lol.

    check genesis 6. Son of God?
     
  14. yosep

    yosep Member

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  15. FinnishButterfly

    FinnishButterfly JennyJelly

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    I'll take a shot at answering them.

    Question 1: Why won't God heal amputees?
    Ask an amputee. Ask them what it did better for their lives, you've seen it in the videos, sometimes people believe it happened for a reason, and in result turned to God, and a majority of the time a lot of people discovered things they wouldn't have done before, and it's a drastic change in their life for self discipline. Also look up Matthew 15:29-31. God did heal amputees.

    Question 2: Why are there so many starving people in our world?
    The suffering is caused by humans, not by God. Many, many people spend their lives dedicated to helping the hungry, and if you'll notice, those people are mostly missionaries. Christians, in fact. If nations, both Christians and Athiests, and especially the people asking this question came together, and did something, it wouldn't be so bad.

    Third question: Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible? Look up these verses:

    First I would like to say, if you take a single scripture from the Bible you could turn it into anything you want.

    - Exodus 35:2 – God demands that we kill everyone who works on the Sabbath day.
    PLEASE, please remember how much the churches changed the Bible. Also, don't rely on the old testament. The old testament is just, old, and irrevelant, and mainly history in my opinion.

    - Deuteronomy 21:18-21 – God demands that we kill disobedient teenagers.
    Also, old testament.
    - Leviticus 20:13 – God demands the death of homosexuals.
    Old testament.
    - Deuteronomy 22:13-21 – God demands that we kill girls who are not virgins when they marry.
    Old testament again.

    Question 4: Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
    - God did not create the world in 6 days 6,000 years ago like the Bible says.
    How do you know? God could have done it in a second if he wanted to, but, it was set as an example for us. He rested the seventh day, that would be the sabbath.
    - There was never a worldwide flood that covered Mt. Everest like the Bible says.
    Well hon, Mt Everest didn't exist, not that big anyway. It DID however start forming 60 MILLION years ago. That's a lot of time for it to get that big.
    - Jonah did not live inside a fish's stomach for three days like the Bible says.
    Who told you that? This was one of the things we call "miracles".
    - God did not create Adam from a handful of dust like the Bible says.
    But you believe in evolution don't you? That would support the theory of evolution.
    These stories are all nonsense. Why would an all-knowing God write nonsense? God didn't write the Bible, Humans did.It makes no sense, does it? So you create some type of very strange excuse to try to explain why the Bible contains total nonsense.

    Question 5: Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the Bible? Look up these Bible verses:

    - Exodus 21:20-21 – God says that it is OK to own slaves, and it is also OK to beat them.
    *Sigh, hon old testament.*
    - Colossians 3:22-24 – Slaves need to obey their masters.

    - Ephesians 6:5 – Slaves need to obey their masters just as they would obey Christ.

    - 1 Peter 2:18 – Slaves need to obey their masters, even if their masters are harsh .
    In short, these were the solutions at the time for poverty & war. Ephesians 6:9 masters were not to threaten their slaves. Basically, the slaves wouldn't become actual slaves. In other versions The slaves would later be rewarded.
    And so on…

    And why do all intelligent people abhor slavery and make it completely illegal? Because slavery is bad, and it's horrible thing. That's why through Timothy and Peter God basically tried to stop slavery.You have to come up with some kind of weird rationalization to explain it.

    Question 6: Why do bad things happen to good people?
    Karma, doll. Karma. Also, energy. You are responsible for anything that happens to you. In the laws of the universe, anything you put out there as energy, is what you will get.

    Question 7: Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence?
    Actually there is. What about life and earth itself? Every bone in your body, every breath you take, the construction of the human body itself is so complex that it's undeniable. Life is a miracle alone. I'll get to the Jesus part. But also, they did find the Ark. You can look it up online here...

    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2133311&page=1


    Question 8: How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
    Actually he has, many people have had "visitations" with Christ, but you must remember as well, Jesus and God are seperate. Jesus would be considered the "son of God" as we would be considered the sons and daughters. He was a human mystic with gifts. And sent for a purpose. And he did appear, three days later.

    Now the reason that God may have not allowed you to see him, or he has not come to you personally, is because at one point you have denied him. If someone told you they wanted nothing to do with them, and you were love which is respectful and nonforceful, would you force them to be part of you? Or would you later want them to proove their feelings?

    Question 9 – Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?
    It wouldn't be considered a satanic, evil ritual if other religious hadn't practiced it in a disgusting manner. And.. here..
    It is also said, Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

    And finally, Question 10 – Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?
    Because Christians are no better than athiests. We are still human, we are still created equal, and we are still sinners. As I have said before, we are all human, therefore imperfection is inevitable dear. That is one of the curses and gifts of freewill.
     
  16. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    The Bible isn't a science textbook. To get the point, it has to be interpreted as history and metaphor. The point of the Jonah story wasn't that somebody could survive in the belly of a fish for several days. The point of Genesis wasn't that creation was accomplished in six days, that humans are literally made out of dust, that there was a talking snake, etc. Suppose you pick up a copy of Aesop's fables. Would you post Questions for Intelligent Greeks: 1. Do you really believe animals could talk in ancient Greece? 2. How do you know Aesop was a real person? etc. If you read it that way, you miss the point.
     
  17. yosep

    yosep Member

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    Finish butterfly,

    Bible NEVER say God create world, star, sun, moon in 6 days. READ your bible again!--if you have one of course---
    to be honest, me too thinking like that before . LOL.

    60 million years ago? from where is that calculation?
    according to my calculation: the flood did happen only 4000-5000 years ago.
     
  18. yosep

    yosep Member

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    old testament regenerate by new testament.

    so if any law from old testament and according to new testament that's contradictive, new testament win.
    in other word, old testament replaced by new testament.

    why?

    because old testament happen on the dark ERA

    dark ERA is == all Human follow blindly their god.
    there was so many god.
    and their god can do miracle too. -- don't forget satan can do miracle too--

    that's why there is no way for that pagan to repent.



    ONLY after Jesus(the Messiah), everything covered on old testament opened.

    compare this-= sacrifice lamb---old testament
    sacrifice Jesus-- new testament

    BUT don't forget.
    everything that wasn't replace by new testament on old testament still valid.

    example: don't worship statue-- old testament.
    in new testament - there is no statement to replace that.
    so 'don't worship statue law' still valid.
     
  19. wbld

    wbld Banned

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  20. yosep

    yosep Member

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    The only difference between old testament and new testament is Jesus.

    to be the truth, every human must be go to hell, because heaven cannot hold even any tiny sin from human.

    we human, inherit sin from our anchestor (adam and eve).

    but Jesus sacrifice Himself and death. and resurected on 3 days.

    bible didn't mention it, but i think Jesus going to hell and grab Hell key, so everyone who die shouldn't go to hell, in the name of Jesus.

    what about our Sin? Jesus endure our sin so we can clean and able to go to heaven.



    above is THE CORE of Christian religion.

    and answer for question# 9
     

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